Olympic market jitters as the hours tick away
July 5th, 2005
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As Paris eases money goes on London and Madrid
With the 115 members of the IOC due to start their election on the 2012 Olympic city just after midnight, BST, the betting price on Paris (above) has continued to ease as punters give strong support to London and Madrid. We have restricted the chart to just the one contender in order to show best the sharp price movement.
The return on a winning bet on Paris has almost doubled in the past four days while the tightening of the London price continues and it’s now at 5/2. There’s also been a lot of money going on Madrid and the returned on a winning bet are half what they were on Friday. Currently the best you can get is 16/1.
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One thing the Spaniards have got in their favour is that Barcelona 1992 is considered by many to have been the best games of modern times.
It’s reported that the London and Madrid bidding teams have agreed to support each other against Paris in the event of one of them being knocked out in the early rounds of voting.
Tony Blair, meanwhile, has made an impassioned speech in Singapore in favour of London to underline the support of his government to the UK bid.
There is, of course, no hard evidence on which to base anything and punters are flying blind.
Mike Smithson
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Madrid shouldn’t even be considered because Barcelona had it in 1992 IMO
Mike , Much as I reported last night , but do you have any info on how the American , French or Spainish markets are looking ?
1 - the US had it in 1984 and 1996, so a Spanish repeat would seem modest by comparison. Atlanta was hardly a stunning success, however.
The astonishing hectoring between London and Paris may well make the IOC think that any City is better than those two. That being said (C. Tabman), I can’t help but think that Chirac is so unpopular with so many countries (not just the UK) that Paris looks to be in trouble. Myself, I have a French brother in law (and nephew, with another on the way) and I am fairly sanguine. In the spirit of fair play, Good Luck one and all. In the spirit of stuffing up Chirac- COME ON LONDON!!!!!
And while Barcelona was spectacular, Sydney, surely must be considered as the best games ever held…
5 , James . I rather enjoyed the IX Olympiad in Amsterdam in 1928 , with Tarzan winning 3 gold medals !!!
Jack W is 102.
4 - James, credit where credit’s due - that phrase belongs to ben Surtees (the One and Only, apparently).
6 - unlike you to hide your light under a bushel, Jack, but I think it’s worth mentioning your role in Jonny’s victories as Chief Latherer and Shaver of the Weismuller body-hair. Your strops were legendary.
Can’t be New York or London because of Iraq; can’t be Madrid because Barcelona had it recently; can’t be Moscow because couldn’t organise it in time; and now can’t be France because Chirac is unpopular.
So “non of the above” seem to have it! If all 5 cities get 20 each (plus or minus 3) it could be anybody’s surely
Is it a secret ballot?
8 - it is a secret ballot. New labour tried to abolish in favour of a good old fashioned public vote sent by “post”. But the IOC has a secret, electronic voting system (sounds like a strange contraption to me…)
8 - I bet they are regreting not letting Havana past the initial screening process. It would have been amusing, and given Fidel a good reason to plod on for another seven years.
7 , Tabman . Yes your correct my ability with a cut throat razor is legendary . However Cheta wasn’t very happy when I shaved him for the animal races and Tarzan’s performances were all the greater for having that monkey on his back !!
Nevertheless I regret to say on one notable occasion my razor slipped whilst doing the nether regions and Tarzan’s response can be heard here :
http://tarzan.com
Click left image of Tarzan !!
Whatever happened to that French plot to buy out the London Eye and move it to the banks of the Seine? I heard that Ken would nationalize the Eye without compensation if there were any prospect of that happening.
12 , Melz . I understand that if London wins , Ken will nationalize Jacque Chirac and either have him caged in the London Eye to be fed by his Scottish keepers with haggis or tied to the Stratford tube extension awaiting rescue from the Finnish Ambassador !!
Bliss !!
It will be an interesting test to see if St Tony’s luck is holding. Personally the French are welcome to it.
Given that all media outlets are agreed with Mike’s last line above, that nobody has the slightest clue what’s going on in the minds of IOC electors, there must be real value in backing Paris right now. It seems great value to be offered 1/2 on what has been a 1/4 favourite when nothing’s really changed except a predictable flood of sentimental English money.
If the Betfair price on Paris is 1/2 or more generous tonight (work firewall) I will put my money substantially where my mouth is.
Does anyone know what the fate of the favourites has been in previous contests? I have a feeling Beijing lost despite being favourites throughout when Sydney (or Athens?) got it - although they then got the 2008 Games instead. But I am not sure.
O/T: Pay peanuts, get monkeys? http://politics.guardian.co.uk/commons/story/0,9061,1521365,00.html
An alternative form of betting on London - buy a house in Stratford. Then again, it would hardly get you a 5/2 return.
15 - but for all we know Paris being favorite was only an invention of the media in the first place. The fact that sentiment is now moving away from them may be based on the British public finally getting enthusiastic about our own chances, but then the previous prices were largely based on our own pessimism!
16 , James . You asked about the recent fate of favourites :
1992 . Effectively this was a stitch up between France and Spain in the days when the Summer and Winter games were held in the same year.
France got the Winter games at Alberville and as no country could have both games in the same year the Summer games went to Barcelona, beating Paris 47-23.
1996 . Athens was generally considered the frontrunner in the Centenary Games but they were easilly outpolled by Atlanta 51-35 . Much talk of kickbacks Seattle style.
2000 . Beijing was widely canvassed as a shoe-in and led all rounds of voting until the final round when Sydney nicked the spoils on the line by 45-43 . 2 African delegates switched to Oz in the final round amid mutters of votes for dosh from China . Princess Anne was thrilled at the defeat of the Beijing having canvassed “anybody but the Chinese”.
2004 . Athens was the clear favourite and duly romped home 66-41 against Rome.
2008 . Beijing this time was widely tipped for an easy win and won on the second vote having obtained a majority with 56 votes to Toronto with 22 , Paris 18 and Istanbul 9.
So favourites do not always have it their own way . Mahir Bose in todays Telegraph states that London could win on the second ballot !!
All sorts of stories and rumours abound , you pays your money and takes your chance . My only prediction for 2012 is that Tabman will win the 200 metres quiche medley relay (prune and lentil division)in the pool ! Ian Thorpe beware !!
Perhaps we should have done a deal with France so that we got the winter games!
Interesting, Jack. Possibly a bit discouraging that the wins by non-favourites seem to have had a bit to do with money changing hands. I hope Messrs Coe and Beckham have brought their cheque books!
21 , Icarus . Winter Games in London !?!?! Yes why not :
1. Ski jumping off Richmond Hill
2. Ice dancing on the Thames (last frozen circa 1790)
3. Bobsleigh round the M25
4. Downhill skiing along Primrose Hill
I’m working on the bid document now with St. Nicklaus , Jack Frost and sundary winter helpers as bid Ambassadors.
22 , James . True , money speaks , which neatly brings me to the betting exchanges that continue to move for London and Madrid and away from Paris . I’m not putting any money on it , it’s such a fluid situation and I haven’t a clue how this election will play out. Quite interesting though and personally I back the bid .
Anyone think that if London does win it’ll make it more likely that TB will still be around come the next general election. He wouldn’t be able to resist it and after all what’s one more lie after so many.
Madrid betting now stretches from 7/1 with Ladbrokes to 25/1 with Blue Square. Don’t often see that range of prices on anything.
26 , EK . Good point about Madrid . The best odds for London are now 12/5 with Stan James and as short as 7/4 with William Hill . Paris is now best 4/9 with bet365 and out at 4/11 with blue square , the plot thickens.
on IG index you can buy London at 27 for a binary bet between 0 and 100 - is this out of line with other betting markets ?
28 , David . A buy at 27 represents good value for London , best value presently. Watch the market like a hawk as it is very fluid . My own guess and it is only that, is that London will continue to shorten.
Centrebet just cut New York to 11/1! Error, or is the fix on again?
Any thoughts on how soon the French are going to try to kill Chirac? The man is breathtaking. Such stupidity (not to mention rather ill-placed snobisme) demands a good kicking. If I was the Paris bid team, I would want to sew up his lips!
I read somewhere that in the cartoon book Obelix & Co. there is a character who is based on the Young Chirac. I checked- there is, and his name (at least in the English version) is, rather splendidly, Caius Preposterus.
30 , EK . New York at 11/1 !?!?! Wow , the nearest are Ladbrokes at 25/1 and Blue Square out at 66/1 !! Might be a glitch or a patriotic Yank going very heavy .
Centrebet - they’ve just cut Madrid from 13/1 to 11/1, but New York remains 11/1. If it was a glitch surely someone would’ve noticed. What’s going on? Let’s face it, the US knows how to win Olympic bids, if you know what I mean.
25.”Anyone think that if London does win it’ll make it more likely that TB will still be around come the next general election. He wouldn’t be able to resist it and after all what’s one more lie after so many. ”
So Brown will finally kill Blair. One will be dead, the other one in prison and the tories could finally win the election.
I’m rooting for Madrid.
What is Madrid’s plan? Are they building a new venue or using the football stadia they have?
31 , John . Chirac senior has now morphed into all of the following :
Haggisi Scoffus Minimus
Helsinkius Sickus
Blaira Stickum Bootem Posterium
Referenduma Nonus Anymoreus
Shroederia Arseus Lickus
Olympus Maximus Voterium
After Tomorrows vote?
Soddus Perfidious Albionia
Views on Centrebet’s 11/1 about New York? Seems out of whack to me. Have taken a little of the 85s on Betfair just in case.
and Rafarrino Scapus Capricornus.
33 , EK . A pair of 11/1 shots in a five horse race still makes them outsiders , but the trend is interesting.
34 , Andrea . “…. I’m rooting for Madrid … ” A mediterainean fix then ?!?!
35 , book value . It’s a mixture see :
http://www.gamesbid.com
bookvalue - Quote from Madrid’s Mayor - “Our proposal is a completely realistic one. As we said 83 percent of the sporting venues are already in existence, and more than 90 percent of our people support hosting the Games.”
Thanks EK. Certainly seems a less risky prospect than ours.
And thanks for the thought Jack W, but I was not able to make your link work.
37 - my guess is that they are a fairly small bookmaker who have not taken a lot on anyone and have simply shifted to cover themselves after some punter with more money than sense decided to throw away a few hundred. Also, it may have been a bit generous offering New York at the same price as Moscow. Moscow is a bit of a joke whereas it is not totally inconceivable that New York could survive to the final three and emerge as some sort of compromise candidate or stop Paris candidate - but it doesn’t look likely. Finally, the US have sent a couple of big figures to the showdown (Hilary Clinton and Mohammed Ali) which may persuade a few punters.
My impression is New York don’t expect to win but are keen to avoid humiliation as they see it as a dry run for 2016 which may well go to the Americas.
42 , book value . Sorry , try this :
http://www.gamesbid.com/english/index.shtml
39.”Andrea . “…. I’m rooting for Madrid … ” A mediterainean fix then ?!?!”
No, Jack W. I was simply tired by Blair and Chirac’s rivality, so I picked up the third one. Moscow seems out of question; I could have picked up New York, but the OG in NY would mean not to see all the events live (except if I will wake up in the middle of the night).
44 , Moi . Or even this ……. please , pretty please !??!?
http://www.gamesbids.com/english/index.shtml
43. Fair points James, but I can’t seem to shake the thought that recent historical evidence says America doesn’t lose Olympic bids. Cynical? Yes. Drunk? Well that too.
45 , Andrea . No not Madrid , we can’t have another Samaranch stitch up as with Barcelona in 92 !!
Greetings ladies and gents: I missed you all!
47. There is no chance that NYC will win the games for 2012 so soon after Atlanta and in the current geopolitical climate…
Paris and New York have finished their presentations. Here’s a quick summary in case you missed them.
Paris took up about 25 minutes with an artistic, entertaining video addressing all aspects of holding the games. The computer-generated scenes showing construction of the facilities were impressive and showed that the organisers have careful plans. Endorsements from trade union leaders convincingly addressed the fear of strikes. The rest of the time was taken with speeches from Chirac and the mayor of Paris (who presented himself as an internationalist by giving half his speech in English). The tone was serious and to the point, and the effusion of French culture and the impressive visuals kept one’s attention. The only embarrassing moment was Rogge presenting Chirac with a certificate of participation, reducing Chirac’s status to a schoolboy.
Conclusion: back at 1.4.
New York’s presentation was a series of speeches by famous (?) athletes, the NY mayor and vice-mayor, and Hilary Clinton, with short video clips in between. The speeches were given with broad smiles and gave the impression that they know that don’t stand a chance so they’re just enjoying the attention. The description of the facilities was as interesting as an Open University maths programme, the graphics were very eighties, and the shots of New York showed it looking very run-down. Bush mumbled a cross-eyed teleprompter endorsement which was overshadowed by endorsements from both Clintons. The bid was finally shot down by questions from IOC members about the 41% of New Yorkers opposed to holding the Olympics and about whether athletes from the axis of evil would be allowed to participate.
Conclusion: lay at any price.
london will win, superb presentation….i wonder if coe fancies tory leadership…..
Hello Chrisco, how was the US?
You missed the party - there are some photos on the 27/6/05 thread.
51.”i wonder if coe fancies tory leadership….. ”
If he was tieless, the answer is yer.
There is already a massive crowd in Trafalgar Square- I can see it from my office window- there are thousands there!
Interesting that NYC got Spielburg to do their presentational film and Paris got Luc Besson. As a fan of Besson I’d watch the French bid very carefully!
If I was the IOC I’d choose Madrid.
It would be highly amusing if Madrid got the Olympics.
56. Ridiculous. Barcelona held the Games just 13 years ago. 2012 would be much to soon for the games to return to a medium-sized European city.
20 We will know soon enough. But Mihir just makes it up. Like we all do. And when he gets it wrong, he covers himself by writing “late change of mind”. It’s all guesswork. The feeling last night was Paris still ahead, London and Madrid close behind. Madrid were picking up votes (allegedly). But London bid presentation went down VERY well
Moscow out
58 - I think that is why it is so exciting, because nobody really knows what the result will be.
57.”Barcelona held the Games just 13 years ago. 2012 would be much to soon for the games to return to a medium-sized European city”
maybe you meant too soon to return to Spain, because Barcelona and Madrid are actually 2 different cities.
“Moscow out” - does that mean it is definitely Paris now?
No one really knows what the vote will be until it happens and then it will have been obvious
You’re right Sophia. I was in Moscow in 2001 for 2008 decision. It was a cert for Beijing. Despite my attempts to shame Princess Anne into speaking out against the Chinese (oh, the power of the Daily Mail)
New York out
So now we need to find out if it will be Madrid or London out…
FWIW Paris was the most voted in the first 2 rounds.
67 - Who was the second most voted for Andrea?
London v Paris for final
67 - You don’t know that Andrea
We will see soon……but London believed they would win head-to-head with Paris in final round. That was the only way they could do it (cutting across “London in 2nd Round” according to my good friend (and fellow Spurs fan) Mihir)
68-70. Italian media reported that Paris was the most voted in the first 2 votes. But they could have make it up.
Who has won then? I know they are making the official annoucement at 12.46 (peculiar time) but it must have leaked out by now, surely?
Who won the first round is almost irrelevant.
None of Athens, Sydney or Beijing did so.
Officially only the scrutineers know and they are sworn to secrecy. But you can bet your bottom dollar that Rogge will know soon. If I get any leaks from my men in Singapore (it gets round the media room very quickly) I will let you know
Argh! COME ON LONDON!
I am off to join the crowds in Trafalgar Square- Maybe Paris wins- but wow! what a result so far for Seb Coe!
What ho, James - just don’t go off and burn down the French Embassy if we lose
Apparently they will know at the start of the ceremony. One IOC member will be wearing a particular carnation to let Keith Mills know if it’s London or Paris! Truly bizarre
52. I had an amazing time bv! Thanks for asking. Lots of funny stories to tell. Are there any from the party? I must get my yellow socks back on!
74. Not sure about the inclusion of Beijing in that list. I find it highly unlikely that they came from second place in the first round to have a majority in round 2.
80 Beijing were just a vote or two away on first round (from memory). Will check on laptop to see…
Laptop - the 2010 first round votes were
Beijing 44
Toronto 20
Paris 15
Istanbul 17
Osaka 6
Second round:
Beijing 56
Toronto 22
Paris 18
Istanbul 9
82 I stand corrected - apologies. My point is that London’s masterplan all along has been to accept Paris will lead in the early rounds but to then pick up votes as the other cities drop out - crucially Madrid voters hence Coe’s tireless cultivation of the Spanish speaking/Latin American bloc. We shall see!
Paris think they have won…..
You beauty. I remember reading some of the French press when London announced their bid and the French scoffed. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA…
So at the end London won.
I’m a bit sad for Paris. They really wanted it. Probably someone here will kill me, but in the head to head I was rooting for Paris, only to kick Blair in the ass.
You beauty. I remember reading some of the French press when London announced their bid and the French scoffed. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA…
Are you all well?
I hope so. Terrible scenes
Sorry about the extensive site downtime. My colo company was asleep on the job. I’m well (alive), and I hope everyone else is too.
I am in Central London (Covent Gaarden). It is a bit of a mess- no tube no buses, we are being told to stay in the building. There are a lot of sirens- some seem to going to Waterloo. Explosions said to have occurred at Edgeware Road, Aldgate/Liverpool Street, Kings X, Moorgate, and several on Buses. The aim seems to have been to disrupt, rather than kill, but to be honest we are used to disruption in London, so a bunch of murdering vermin hardly makes much difference to what is after all one of the greatest cities in the world.
I live by Russell Square. Heard at least one blast. Weird atmosphere - people carryig on as normal even though the whole city has basically been shut down.
My girlfriend’s friend saw a bus explode outside the V&A - she’s been sent away from the scene but reckons there must be fatalities
Eye-witnesses report a bus being blown apart in Russell Square. If true, there must have been many deaths. It looks like the terrorists did aim to cause multiple deaths as well as disruption.
94.” It looks like the terrorists did aim to cause multiple deaths as well as disruption”
if someone causes an explosion in a tube (a place usually full of people), it’s clear that they want to have deaths too.
IRA said it’s not their fault.
I’m in Green Park, and fine as well. Sirens to be heard but nothing specific to report.
It’s terrible for people involved, but I hope the bulk of London carries on basically as normal, and returns to business as usual pretty soon, to show the instigators that if this is the worst they can do, it’s pretty pathetic. Deny them the satisfaction of any major changes to city life.
Am near Moorgate and fine. I was near Liverpool St at the time of the first blast but didn’t see or hear anything.
[97] Here here I was in Trafalgar Square yesterday and we can stand up to these vermin. Dreadfully, I was wrong about the chaos- the death toll is looking bleak. They will be caought and they will be punished. Blair will speak at 12.00
99.”They will be caought and they will be punished.”
The problem is that those people don’t care if they will be caught and punished.
BBC reporting (via Frank Gardner andME sources)of Al Qaida connection.
Police announce 2 deaths in Aldgate.
101. They’re obviously the first suspects.
Any official reports about the number of deaths?
Sadly it seems that according to “rumours” they’re increasing.
Rumoured numbers of deaths are often much worse than the reality. I hope that’s so here.
104. I thought the opposite. IIRW in Madrid they started with a low number of deaths and then it increased.
Four critically injured people at St Mary’s, eight badly injured. This seems low to me, for a Tube train blast. So either it was a small bomb - in Edgware Rd station - God willing - or it was nasty, but - to put it very bluntly - they left the obviously dead people there. In pieces.
Seven explosions confirmed. Seven!
[100] They don’t care- true, but the Madrid vermin were caught- this filth will be too. Better to have them off the streets (or even dead in a hail of bullets).
Well said Tony Blair — “These people must know that our determination to defend our way of life is greater than their determination to kill and injure innocent people”.
Can we avoid pointless speculation on casualties, we’ll all know more in a few hours.
108.”They don’t care- true, but the Madrid vermin were caught- this filth will be too. Better to have them off the streets (or even dead in a hail of bullets). ”
yes, it’s obviously better to have them in jail,but this won’t stop them to try again. They’re people ready to kill themself to kill pther people!
109. Disagree mate. i live in central London. My fiancee works in central London. a lot of my friends are in central London right now. I shall speculate as much as I freaking like about casualties as people I love might be amongst them. And I’m worried. sorry but I am angry. There is a very very very very very weird silence now, here in bloomsbury. Quite the weirdest thing I’ve ever witnessed in these busy streets. Train trapped in King’s X as I write. Fuck. Sorry.
109. Disagree mate. i live in central London. My fiancee works in central London. a lot of my friends are in central London right now. I shall speculate as much as I freaking like about casualties as people I love might be amongst them. And I’m worried. sorry but I am angry. There is a very very very very very weird silence now, here in bloomsbury. Quite the weirdest thing I’ve ever witnessed in these busy streets. Train trapped in King’s X as I write.
111. Are phone lines down?
Yep. Haven’t been able to make a call for two hours. Now entire network taken down. Very strange atmos, can only really hear sirens.
Andrew Marr just said ‘not seeing death on scale of Omagh’. I do hope that’s not too hasty. Logic tells me there must be dozens of dead, at least. I really hope I’m wrong.
Priority is being given to the Emergency Services on mobile ‘phone networks.
113. It must be a very anxious situtation. Hearing silence in these situtation is sometimes even shocking than hearing noises.
115. also the fone networks are scared - and rightly - that the terrorist w***ers are using mobiles to set off the bombs. Very sensible to take networks down.
My cousin started work for the London Ambulance Service this week. How’s that for timing? I’m nowhere near London but I keep thinking of more names of people I know up there and wondering how they are. For those of you sitting in the middle of it, this must be incredibly nervewracking.
116 - yes, I’ve barely even heard sirens despite being very near several of the bombs.
It is a little odd- You do feel great anger against the vermin responsible, but next week things will probably be back to normal. It gives a wierd perspective- something really horrible has happened on the Kings X train- rumours of major casualities. Sirens all the time now. Several of the bridges are closed. All traffic is being prevented from entering Central London. All dramatic, but I feel just sad- how dare these nobodies try to hurt this wonderful City.
And how dare they use the stupid ideology they talk themselves into against a real living city.
120-121. but they aren’t rational people. at least the don’t use our rationality.
I got off the tube at Aldgate this morning (work about 100m away). It’s a scary thought that had I been late for work I would possibly be dead. What is remarkable is how calm everyone is - noone is panicking about secondary attacks as far as I can tell.
[123] Yes- I had a near miss too- I usually take the Hammersmith & City line through Edgeware Road- Today I walked to Paddington to get the Bakerloo- just as well seeing as my normal H&C train was blown up-on such small things eh?
Hope everyone is ok…
For once it doesn’t matter where your from, which party you support, or what ever your views on the “war on terror”, I would have thought that everyone is united in a desire to bring who ever did this to book and make them pay…
Its an almost irrational feeling for me… how dare these fanatics come into this nation and dispense their butchery on innocent people who’s only crime was to belong to a free, tolerant and democratic nation…its terrible, just terrible… I hope we catch the bastards who did it!
…everyone else in London, take care.
123-124. It’s scary to think that you could just take a bus or a train and something like could happen to you.
Hear hear Ben.
In front of things like this one, I have a big sense of impotence.
Weirder and weirder. Just went to the site of the Russell Square bomb. Dead silence. Parked ambulances. Police. the odd bemused tourist. Maimed people being trolleyed to the hospital. Yet just two hundred yards away - people sitting down to nice lunches in fashionable Thai restaurants. I know life goes on - and good thing too - but still an eerie experience.
Only 2 dead? Cannot believe it.Hope so. But cannot believe it. But at least - it appears - it wasn’t the dirty bomb or chemical attack we all deeply feared…
130 - Tragically I cannot believe it is only 2. I think we will hear much worse, and that some among the injured will not recover.
BBC now reporting “several” dead and “hundreds” injured. News management is - rightly - part of the emergency plan. Good to hear all pb.commers seem OK…
Glad everyone from here is OK. Fortunately I was at the dentist in Wokingham this morning and am now working out of Reading. A friend of mine (a Lib Dem!) was on the Edgeware Rd train and was on the blown up train. He is OK and as he is a doctor is now treating other victims at a major London hospital!
132. CNN reported 10 deaths at King’s Cross station.
132. You think they have deliberately downplayed the casualty situation so as not to panic us?! Remarkable if true. Clever. Not sure of the ethics of it though. I can still only hear sirens. Tottenham court road devoid of traffic, like Xmas Day. What a morning.
I am just around the corner of the Royal Free Hospital and it now seems eerily silent after the wailing of ambulances has died done. Hope everyone here is OK. Just remember that the aim of terrorism is to make us scared and undermine our normal ways of life. Just try and spend as normal a day as possible is perhaps the best gesture that I can think of.
134.
Any word on those trapped at Kings X, yet? or still nothing?
134. That, I fear, is more likely the case. Oh Jesus. I reckon we’re looking at dozens. Was Andrew Marr part of this ‘news management’? when he said, fairly emphatically, that ‘we’re not looking t death on the scale of Omagh’? I know this may appear ghoulish, this speculation. But it’s distracting me from the unnerving scenes outside my flat.
Just wanted to express sympathy as I know most of you are Londoners. We’ve been under seige here in Edinburgh for the last few days, with sirens blaring and police chasing protesters around, but it was all a bit of a joke- now the same thing (sirens) in London, only it’s deadly serious. BBC has handled this very way, playing things down, putting on special ‘calm’ voices, obviously long planned, but it’s obviously very, very serious- there must be around at least half-a-dozen fatalities per incident, and perhaps many more in some of them. Sounds like the emergency services and press have both done a great job.
I’m so, so sorry- but I think the sheer outrageousness will unite everyone in disgust and condemnation, whatever they thought of the war, whatever they think about Palestine or any of the other questions. Our hearts are with you, London and Londoners.
Yesterday I wore a provincial indifference to London winning the olympic bid; today I am a Londoner and I share the concern and anger of everyone who is in the city today. Hope everyone is OK.
139- your comments are very much appreciated. Thanks.
F**k me. Helicopter just flew slapbang over my house, about thirty foot above. this is scary.
F**k me. Helicopter just flew slapbang over my house, about thirty foot above. this is scary.
Don’t be scared by helicopters- they’ll either be bringing medics, aiding police observation, or belong to Sky or News 24. We’ve had them here in Edibburgh all week- the noise is unnerving, but they are essentially benign.
Just read this. Shocking if true, may just be wild speculation: Report: Israel Was Warned Ahead of First Blast
13:30 Jul 07, ‘05 / 30 Sivan 5765
(IsraelNN.com) Army Radioquoting unconfirmed reliable sources reported a short time ago thatScotland Yard had intelligence warnings of the attacks a short timebefore they occurred.
The Israeli Embassy in London was notified in advance, resulting inFinance Minister Binyamin Netanyahu remaining in his hotel room ratherthan make his way to the hotel adjacent to the site of the firstexplosion, a Liverpool Street train station, where he was to addressand economic summit.
At present, train and bus service in London have been suspendedfollowing the series of attacks. No terrorist organization has claimedresponsibility at this time.
Israeli officials stress the advanced Scotland Yard warning does not inany way indicate Israel was the target in the series of apparent terrorattacks.
140 - thanks for your good wishes John.
145 - I would be very wary of this, given some of the unfounded rumours around 9/11.
144. Ta for that. Really. However, I am aware they are just medics! - have been in the odd warzone in my journalistic career. It’s not the noise so much - it’s the juxtaposition of normality and murderous outrage that is so unnerving….
147. Ditto, yes. Swirl of rumours already…
Israelis now denying foreknowledge. Claim they acted fast after first blast. Makes more sense.
Glad you are all OK. Me too.
“Glad you are all OK”
Who, between Lodond posters, hasn’t posted yet. Sophia?
153 - probably some people haven’t visited since it was down yesterday. I’ve emailed Sophia.
It is difficult isn’t it. I just hope nobody I know is hurt, but why should whether I know them or not matter.
I do not understand what they, assuming they are an organisation, are trying to achieve. We are not being blackmailed or asked to stop doing something. Even if there is vague demand to leave Iraq or Afganistan, whoever is doing this must know that action like this would be counter productive.
Just heard of an explosion in Croydon, no details yet.
155. Is that a joke?? Sorry if it isn’t. But… very confused. Croydon?
155. what? another one or one not reported so far, but happened this morning?
I thought that the House of Commons was at its very best for the Home Secretary’s statement. Democracies and peoples united will always prevail.
156 - sadly not a joke Sean, a colleague has heard it from someone who works there.
155. I don’t for a minute think you’d joke about that. Sorry. Nerves jangled here. But… where did you hear that? Croydon!!??
159. K. Understood. Nothing on news yet. There were strong rumours of a bus bomb at the V&A, which turned out wrong. Hopefully the same with this.
Thoughts go out to everyone in London…..I used to use Liverpool street regularly…its always more powerful when its somewhere you know…
I missed a bomb blast by minutes in 1991….from memory no one was hurt but it was still frightening enough….my sympathies to anyone mixed up in todays events…
I am fine thanks Andrea. I am hearing some really awful stories coming out of the hospitals.
161 - good. Perhaps it was conflated with Russell Square/ British Museum.
Yeh, not too sure about the V&A bomb now - looks like the rumours are flying. I’ve heard about bombs at Hampstead and Stratford, and that the police have shot two suspected suicide bombers at Canary Wharf. This is coming from someone stuck in an office on Totnm Court Rd who has a transport police contact. But I’m getting a bit sceptical.
Maybe things calming down now… fewer sirens. Police certainly in control in quite impressive way - handing out maps to tourists! Well done them.
Yup, contact has confirmed that Hampstead, Stratford and Canary Wharf rumours are false. Sorry if I caused any concern, but I guess she’s panicking.
166 - yes, and to the NHS staff who will be working as hard and as long as we need them to.
Comisserations to all who have to cope with the chaos today. I just worry that this will give Blair/Clarke an excuse to go even more authoritarian. ID cards are not the answer, not is catching them now they’ve done it. The answer is better and more police and military itelligence and the the use of evidence gathered in such a way to be admissable in court.
168. Yep. London can take it. F**k ‘em. We saw off Hitler, we can seee off a bunch of sexually insecure peasants.
Just a thought — could “bomb on a bus outside V&A” have been a mis-hearing of bomb outside BMA?
5Live just saying that there may only have been three tube bombs — for example, when incidents were reported at Kings Cross and Russell Square, this was a Piccadilly train between the two, with people emerging from both stations. Ditto other reports of adjacent stations.
So perhaps there were only four bombs, better than six if so.
171. That makes a lot of sense to me. One bomb in City area, maybe two. One at King’s X/Bloomsbury. One at Edgware Road. One on bus. three or four bombs, then. Not seven. Small mercies…. Though I am still slightly surprised, and a little dubious, about low fatality figures. If you take the whole roof off a bus, then…. but I don’t want to be macabre. Still no mobile fone network here.
London is the greatest city on earth, unbelievably cosmopolitan - I think of my own borough Lmabeth where over 150 languages are spoken in its schools.
We can’t allow ourselves to be bullied by murderers & fanatics, that means not being bullied into tunring on minorities, not being bullied into stamping on our freedoms and not being bullied into mindless fear.
London’s bigger than that and so are Londoners
173.”London is the greatest city on earth”
maybe one the of greatest city on earth.
Over 300 people in hospitals according to Sky News and around 150 with serious injuries.
Just nipped out for lunch- the Strand is empty except for Ambulances and Police. Very quiet. Central London is sealed off. Tube will not reopen today, Maybe some buses later- long walk home
but these vermin will not win. The Emergency Services seem to be coping well (wouldn’t mind my mobile network back online though…). Concerned about the Piccadilly Line bomb- I hear it has been carnage down there.
Just nipped out for lunch- the Strand is empty except for Ambulances and Police. Very quiet. Central London is sealed off. Tube will not reopen today, Maybe some buses later- long walk home
but these vermin will not win. The Emergency Services seem to be coping well (wouldn’t mind my mobile network back online though…). Concerned about the Piccadilly Line bomb- I hear it has been carnage down there.
When I went out for lunch along Piccadilly, it wasn’t sealed off at all. And a good number of people on the streets, although obviously quieter than usual. Most things were open — Royal Academy with a big “Open As Usual” banner out, also most shops, restaurants etc. However some banks seemed to have closed for business.
As mentioned above, I saw police officers being very helpful to tourists, indicating walking routes across London!
This news management thing seems to be happening. Still people insisting that there are only 2 confirmed dead. Yet many witnesses speak of seeing bodies at various sites. I’m not sure of the morality of withholding bad news - if that is what this is, rather than just chaos - but i suppose I can see the reasoning. Still eerily quiet here. Quieter than ever, in fact, cause sirens gone. Mobile networks back up.
Don’t know about news management, I just think that it is difficult to tell at the moment- 12 confirmed killed so far, several hundred injured, several critical.
179. yes, they’re probably giving the number of confirmed deaths.
I don’t think it’s news management. The emergency services have better things to do at the moment than provide us with running totals. Everyone is well aware of the grim reality that numbers are likely to be a lot higher than confirmed to date.
45 believed dead according to the AP.
179. Yes indeed, you are probably right. But still the curious statement by Andrew Marr, an hour or two ago (a very well informed journo, at the PM’s side) saying: ‘at least we’re not seeing death on the scale of Omagh’. Speaking as someone a hundred yards from Russell Square busbomb, i thought that a rash statment at best, at the time, and it turns out i may be right. Was it just a gaffe? An exagerration/understatment? Or news management? I guess with people dying, this may seem like a macabre debate, for another time. But as I said, it’s helping to distract me… still weird here…
181.”The emergency services have better things to do at the moment than provide us with running totals. ”
and we don’t know how the situation is down there.
From Guardian newsblog:
“Suddenly, the terrible scale of today’s attack becomes clear. Ambulance sources, reported on Sky, suggest 23 people have been killed at King’s Cross, nine at Edgware road, seven at Aldgate, two at Russell Square. There are hundreds - possibly more than a thousand - injured. We’re trying to verify the numbers.”
No way Sean - where? I live on Tavistock Place, as chance would have it visiting the folks in Swindon this week.
From the Guardian blog site: George Galloway appears to blame the attack on UK Government.
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Respect MP George Galloway says: “We argued, as did the security services in this country, that the attacks on Afghanistan and Iraq would increase the threat of terrorist attack in Britain. Tragically Londoners have now paid the price of the Government ignoring such warnings.”
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Are we *really* not allowed to libel Mr Galloway on this forum? Sorely tempted…
It isn’t libellous to call George Galloway a w****r - it’s “mere vulgar abuse” and so not actionable.
George Galloway is a w****r.
Yes. Just read Mr Galloway’s comment. It takes a genuinely special talent to make that crass and insensitive a remark on a day like today.
I was supposed to be in London today … luckily the meeting was moved to Essex (not often you can say that). I hope everyone is OK.
190 - are you OK getting back Steve: do you need to go into London and back?