In memory of Edward Heath - Prime Minister 1970-74
July 18th, 2005
I cannot remember whether I had a bet on the 1970 General Election but if I did I certainly did not foresee the extraordinary victory of Edward Heath’s Conservative party. Everybody had written him off and Harold Wilson, it is said, had not even put in place the most rudimentary of removal plans in case he had to get out of Number 10.
Whenever people talk about election certainties I always think of Heath’s achievement.
His term in office was dominated by Britain joining the EEC, the oil crisis of 1973 and his fight with the National Union of Miners which eventually was his undoing.
I have chosen the excellent Heath on a skate board picture because it gives a flavour of the time and the humour in the man. This comes from the excellent http://www.statesmanorskatesman.co.uk/ site which is a great resource of images of politicians doing extraordinary things.
Mike Smithson
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Obviously I was an opponent of his premiership and the only thing I really liked about his policies was Europe (which is presumably what motivated Rik’s rather remrkable comments last night). But what I most liked about the man was his utter lack of interest in saying anything for effect. With many people, not just politicians, you hear any striking comment with the thought, “I wonder what is making him take that line?” With Heath, it was always obvious that the answer was, “Because he thinks it’s right.”
Some people with (to me) repellent views have a similiar quality (Enoch Powell, for one), but it’s still admirable in itself, and in Heath’s case usually deployed in the service of a civilised Europe. Moreover, he carried on in the Commons even when it was visibly hard for him to move, and attended dutifully when perfectly fit colleagues see fit to turn up once a fortnight. A decent man.
Edward Heath was a fine man. I had the chance to meet him on several occasions the first being in 1955 has a young Conservative party volunteer during the general election that year and I always found him to be an excellent and honorable man. His 1970 election victory was in part because of his principals and his ability to connect with the middle class. It is sad that his primerships were overshadowed by the problems thats faced Britian during the 1970’s, endless powercuts,the beginning of the troubles in Northern Ireland a three-day working week, a pay freeze, all against the background of the oil crisis.
Heath was a new breed of Tory leader, a departure of the old aristocratic and public school educated leaders that dominated the party before. He was excepting of a changing and diverse Britian and did not tolerate the old bigoted way.
My prayers are with his family.
He was excepting of a changing and diverse Britian
Indeed he was. He was ferociously intolerant of those who did not share his cranky world view (though he had a softspot for tyrants in both Beijing and Baghdad).
If only he had been a little more accepting of others’ viewpoints he may have become a half-way decent leader.
The Telegraph has an appropriate send off for the old rascal here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml;jsessionid=MTWA3MWNZEG0XQFIQMGSNAGAVCBQWJVC?xml=/opinion/2005/07/18/dl1801.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2005/07/18/ixopinion.html&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=39669
It’s customery to magnify the good things in a persons life the day after they die particularly if they achieved as much as an ex Prime Minister must have. So not a very classy obituary by the Telegraph but these days nothing which has anything to do with the modern Tory Party surprises me.
He was right about Thatcher though! Look what she has done to the Tory party. Had Heathites remained in power then an inclusive one nation party could be in power today.
Interesting Icarus. But I suspect all those who wanted that sort of inclusive Conservatism are now Lib Dems (or even Labour). I’m coming to the conclusion that what’s left of the Conservative party are a pretty hard nosed lot. Witness Michael Howard’s election campaign and even Rik’s ‘farewell to Ted’
Those of us who lived through the late 60’s and early 70’s well remember the constant tussle between the leaders of the two main parties Harold Wilson and Ted Heath , two very different styles of leadership and men . Although Ted Heath was perhaps further from my own political views than Harold Wilson , he was a much more likeable man .
The political climate of those days was very different to that of today but one principal in politics remains . To be a successful Prime Minister , you need luck as well as good judgement . The Arab Israeli War and consequent oil crisis was bad luck , the calling of an election on who rules the country in hindsight was bad judgement but the result of the 1974 election was a cliffhanger which could have gone Ted Heath’s way with a little more luck .
That era of politics is now long gone and so are the many of the policies that were then regarded as sacrosanct such as fixed exchange rates to give just one example . Here there is a lesson for the future but this is not the place to say other than
Rest In Peace Ted Heath - You served this country to the best of your ability .
Heath was Prime Minister when I first became interested in politics. I remember my father (a Conservative and a keen photographer) waiting for hours to take his photograph leaving a meeting somewhere in Gloucestershire. He was a man with a good sense of humour, and great patriotic sentiments. For all his mistakes and misfortune, he did a tremendous amount to modernise Britain.
5. At the risk of speaking ill of the dead, his brand of Conservatism had run its course by October 1974, and could have only led this country further down the path of relative decline had it continued.
Rather a good, fulsome tribute from Margaret Thatcher yesterday. Although they clearly disagreed on a great deal and fell out rather badly, she clearly recognised his talent, strength and vision even though it was a vision she did not share. It is a great shame that one Tory poster, Rik, on another thread does not share Thatcher’s level of respect for a fellow statesman. It was rather heartening that other Tories such as Sean Fear and A.H. Matlock leapt to Heath’s defence.
I wouldn’t say I was springing to his defence, exactly. He had some good qualities but he was not a good Prime Minister.
As someone who was conceived during the three-day week, I probably owe my existence in so small part to Ted Heath. In fact, I was born on the very day that one Conservative MP (Kenneth Lewis) muttered darkly about the leadership being ‘a leasehold not a freehold’.
My Grandmother was thrilled to shake his hand when he came to Leek to campaign for David Knox.
Had Heath stayed leader, it’s likely that Knox would have reached the Cabinet (as Heath would have won any post-Winter of Discontent election).
The story I most like about Heath is one in Robin Day’s Memoirs. Day was due to interview him for election call, and someone wrote in mischievously (and anonymously) ‘When are you going to have mummy and me round for tea?’ Day was slightly worried how Heath might take this (even off-air), but Heath’s shoulders went up and down with laughter.
Sorry, 12 should read ‘in no small part’.
6 - Sutton and Cheam well rid of theh unpleasantness uttered by Rik W lst night. Bit of respect - whether you agreed with his views or not Heath achieved what the likes of Rik W are most unlikely to.
11 - Maybe not “leapt” then, Sean! But that’s my point really -Thatcher certainly didn’t see him as a good PM either but like you recognised his many qualities and was magnanimous enough to pay tribute to him yesterday.
A quick reminder of Rik W’s remark on the other thread for those who missed it: “He will not be missed!”. Quite disgraceful.
15 , James . Very regretably Rik also said Heath was :
“weak” “spineless” “an unmitigated disaster” “nothing good for the country” “disasterous PM”
Not suprisingly Rik added he held Heath in “contempt”
Make your own minds up.
3 Thanks for the Torygraph link, but caution, as it appears to be personalised and divulge the name you registered at the paper with…
On a different matter, Jack W, I think you mentioned an interesting article in the Telegraph a while back. Could you post a link for us?
17 , Michael . Nice try . LOL
It’s customery to magnify the good things in a persons life …
And it’s customary to spell correctly if you’re attempting to sound aloof.
Had Heathites remained in power then an inclusive one nation party could be in power today
In Baghdad, presumably.
One Nationism is simply a form of smiling fascism. The idea that an entire nation - of all classes, regions, ethnicities, religions and creeds - can march down the same route in harmony and under the same all-encompassing and benevolent authority is a fantasy of either the simple minded or the authoritarian. And Heath was an authoritarian. His weakness for despots was not that of the conservative pragmatist who says in effect “We must learn to live with these people”, but that of someone who clearly felt a strong affinity with absolutist rulers.
As for this stuff about him being “inclusive” I assume it to be some form of puerile joke. Politics is war conducted by other means and the Heath had no qualms about making enemies. On the contrary his extraordinary egotism prompted him to despise and exclude all those who did not agree with him to the letter.
Thanks for the Torygraph link, but caution, …
No problem. I am inimitable.
Goodness me - I hadn’t realised that one nation was fascist. I thought it meant looking after the interests of all rather than just your gang.
I have long argued that the Tory party is dying out. If the newer recruits are typical of the posters then perhaps Heaths death marks the end of a once great party.
21 , Icarus . One Nation Conservatism = Smiling Fascism !! I nearly choked on my venison roll !! Perhaps you’re correct and the old Tory ideals will fade out to be replaced by the magnanimity of the Riks’ of the party .
Having met Rik at the PB.C party and having found him to be a really nice and engaging guy I, like many, was disappointed by his hasty comments on Edward Heath. I am sure that on reflection Rik realises this and I do hope that he’ll come back on here and put the record straight.
His comments, and those by Sean Fear, show the deep chasm that Europe has created in the Tory party. This is very sad. Edward Heath saw greater political union in Europe as a way of helping to ensure that 1914 and 1939 did not happen again and in that, at least, it has succeeded.
21 Venison roll! It does sound a bit…er…uninclusive.
22 , Mike Smithson . One thing did cross my mind an hour or so back about the Rik outburst , was it Rik that posted the items ??
“His extraordinary egotism prompted him to despise and exclude all those who did not agree with him to the letter.”
Both Thatcher and Keith Joseph were in Heath’s cabinet. Powell was in his shadow cabinet and would have served but for “rivers of blood”. You probably need a fair bit of ego to be PM, but this is harsh on Heath. I won’t even dignify the “facism” remarks by commenting.
19 ‘His weakness for despots was not that of the conservative pragmatist who says in effect “We must learn to live with these people”, but that of someone who clearly felt a strong affinity with absolutist rulers.’
Sounds like Margaret Thatcher’s relationship with General Pinochet.
If the Conservative party is changing and the “Conservative” brand is tarnished then I idly began to think of a new brand name that they could use. My initial thought was “The Truth Party” and checking on Google it seems ideal:
A sample of their policies in Canada:
…..Because the goal of our party is to get elected. Others will talk about vision, direction, global competitiveness and other fluffy notions that don’t have a thing to do with the matter at hand, which is to win a seat, get to Parliament Hill, and start logging those critical years of public service to qualify for federal pension. Do you really think that any of the other parties actually cares about you, the voter? Ha ha, silly you. We’re a breed of power-hungry, over-educated swine with a list of personality disorders as long as your arm, not the least of which is the need to prove the grade school bullies wrong by having the power to take their employment benefits away from them…..
http://www.nickersononline.com/ms/A-16062004P-Truth_Party.html
Mike, did the posts last night definitely match up with Rik’s usual IP address?
23 , Peredur . After yesterdays outdoor culinary extravaganza !! LOL I think it’ll be venison rolls , sandwiches , curry , stew , soup and broth from now until the Tories return to government !!
In fairness to Rik, many of the anti-euro right / UKIP crowd loathe Ted Heath as “the one who started it all”. One elderly Ukipper I once met considered Heath guilty of national betrayal and treason and confessed, fiery-eyed and quivering, “I want to spit every time I hear that man’s name”. Perhaps only from this perspective is it possible to understand Rik’s vituperative response to Ted’s death, unless he suffered some personal unkindness.
MS at [22] I too met Rik at the pb.com party, and agree with your comments. But he is not the only one on here who posts observations ‘for effect’ which are a bit OTT, and I don’t usually have reads loads of paragraphs.
Joining the Common Market to help bind the Hun into Europe to stop a 3rd WW may have been a reasonable view at the time. ERGH may, or may not, have foreseen the corrupt and bureaucratic monster that is now the EU. It is not only UKIP members who want a bit more distance from Brussels.
I’ve just re-read this, and it seems that I’m defending Rik. Is that madder than being a member of UKIP?
Well I’m am sad about his death, Although I think he shouldn’t have turned on policy. It must be said he served his country to his best of his abilities. A Character also who will be sadly missed by me. His sulk and spate with Mrs thatcher greatly added tto the character of the tories and showed that even though people couldn’t stand one another they wouldstill work together in the interests of the country.
As an ex-naval officer I have to say that when someone has died, after a lifetime serving ones nation, I think a some quiet words of reflection and a thankyou for the service you have done should be the order of the day. I do not believe vitirol is the done thing.
Rik as a serving RAF officer I’m sure you do not get thanked for serving your country, something I feel is sadly lacking in this country. I had the sad misfortune of losing a close friend of mine, he was never thanked in person, other than the elderly. I believe that with the lack of respect today for people who have gallantly served a thank you would be nice, if not in their live at least when they die.
I hope Roger you do not think all Tories are now ungentelmanly. There are still many serving and retired officers I know who try to uphold the traditions of the old school of officership.
My last post seemed to disappear into the ether. Anyway while I am no fan of Heath and certainly no contemporary not being born until the 1980s, it strikes me that for all his faults he has many strong achievements to his name. For one he saw through appeasement at the 1939 Oxford by election. For two he served in World War Two. Later he held the party together over Suez and then became the first conservative leader to be elected purely on a meritocratic basis. Even as Tory leader and PM he not only joined Europe, something I would have agreed with at the time (even though I am now a strong eurosceptic) but took on Enoch Powell and his inflammatory views. He even attempted to curb union power and introduce free market economics ten years before the climate for such ideas had fully arisen. For all of this at least, let him rest in peace as a man who did his best and made many good calls.
Re 28. The IP addresses matched up. It is a fair point to make though because in the past people have sought to impersonate Rik.
31 , david kendrick. I know of no thing madder than being a member of UKIP.
As Blackadder would say “It’s the maddest mad thing since mad King George declared himself the maddest mad monarch of them all . And that’s pretty mad !
Mad Jack Mac W is in bedlam and 102.
Madder than Mad Jack McMad, winner of last years Mr Madman competition, is i believe the phrase
36 , Alex . Oh no ….. much madder than that !
No, real mad is challenging Kilroy for the leadership of Veritas.
Re: 30 & 31: That doesn’t mean Rik or anyone else is duty bound to jump in on every event or nuance. To be honest, I didn’t like what Rik said or the way he said it. He could have said nothing but that’s free speech for you.
I’ve always considered Heath an enigmatic character. People speak of him as a one-nation Tory but the 1970 election manifesto is a very radical document, almost Thatcherite. Heath took on the Unions and lost - if Thatcher had been PM in 1970, I’m to be convinced she would have fared any better. The appetite for radical change was much stronger in 1979 than in 1970 and Thatcher was able to use that.
As a pro-European myself, I applaud the efforts of Heath, Whitelaw and others to get us into the EEC. Could they have envisaged how it would turn out - could anyone have envisaged the relatively peaceful disintegration of the Communist bloc ? To the extent that national Governments like Thatcher’s colluded in the bureaucaratisation or failure to democratise the EU by their desire to retain power at national level, it’s unfair to throw words like traitor at Heath.
When I was politically active in the 1980s, I harboured the dream that Heath would cross the floor and join the Alliance. His appearance on a platform with Jenkins and Owen in 1983 would, I think, have had an effect. However, as I read about him, I now realise he was a Tory through and through.
His passing, soon after those of Callaghan and Jenkins, marks almost the end of the wartime political generation. Heath and Jenkins were contemporaries at Oxford in 1940 and both served their country in different ways but with distinction. I suppose Healey is the last of that generation.
People often criticise Heath because he lost three elctions but no Tory would have won in 1966 and the victory in 1970 was against the odds. It’s also forgotten that the 1970 election was a nadir for the Liberals, who lost Orpington and a number of other gains from the early 60s.
Heath tried to change Britain after 1970 but Britain wasn’t ready for his kind of change. Perhaps we needed the events of 1974 and the Winter of Discontent to finally illustrate what needed to be done. It may be that, as with Major between 1992-97, noone would have done any better given the combination of events and forces operating.
I liked Tony Benns comment that Heath was well to the left of Blair.
There is no dount that Ted Heaths early career was very successful. From what one can gather, he had a distinguished war record and was anti appeasment. As a prime minister, he will go down in the record books as a failure. I believe his bitterness and questionable opinions (the first gulf war for example) were due to not having a guiding wife or partner. Overall, Ted Heath was not a bad person at all and for the majority of his parliamentry career, only did what he considered right for the country. RIP.
Was it my semi-conscious imagination or was Humphries deeply (unintentionally) offensive to Tony Benn about it on Today? I think he said words to the effect, “Mr Benn, when you think about that era - Heath, Callaghan, Healy, Jenkins, yourself - it’s all drawing to a close now isn’t it?” I would have punched him if I were Tony, just to show I was still in robust good health!
Those interviews are generally rather interesting in any event. I look forward to the tribute programme (is it on as early as tonight?)
Edward Heath was the kind of One Nation conservative I could vote for. I like centre right government, which is why I now support Labour.
I too grew up in the Heath/Wilson period. Like another Poster, I too supported Wilson’s policies but thought Heath was the nicer and more honorable man.
On the whole, I think he was a good Prime Minister - a little unlucky, but undoubtedly competent and decent. It seems pretty obvious to me however that his ‘failure’ led to Thatcherism and the current problems of the conservative party.
As for Rik…..I have greatly enjoyed his contributions and am sorry to see him getting a bad press. Perhaps it was an error of judgement, but don’t we all make them from time to time? I wouldn’t judge him too harshly. It’s an open forum - good knockabout stuff usually - and if he was OTT for once, surely that’s not too much of a crime on this site?
http://www.statesmanorskatesman.co.uk/thatcher.jpg
Oh my, space hoppers weren’t around when Maggie was a lad, but I don’t think “you’re” A levels were either.
I am most disappointed, how does Maggy have a secretary who writes “you’re” A levels?
talk about lowering standards.
And by the way PBC has cost me 3 quid this morning. :p I bought the Vox Latina book mentioned above.
If the book is crap, I shall ask Mike for my money back :p
42 , peter the punter . Very generous of you in relation to Rik . Perhaps overnight Rik may think better of his outburst . We’ll see.
We all make mis-judgements in life , myself more than most , but I’d like to think in death we could accord a transparently decent man a little honour - Is it really too much to ask - I think not .
10. I’m not sure (but it’s possible) that you really meant to describe Mrs T’s tribute to Edward Heath as ‘fulsome’. In my dictionary it says the word means “excessive or insincere esp. in a an offensive and distasteful way”.
Richard, I have checked my dictionary which says of “fulsome”:
“Usage Note: Fulsome is often used to mean “offensively flattering or insincere.” But the word is also used, particularly in the expression fulsome praise, to mean simply “abundant,” without any implication of excess or insincerity. This usage is etymologically justified but may invite misunderstandings in contexts in which a deprecatory interpretation could be made. The sentence I offer you my most fulsome apologies may raise an eyebrow, where the use of an adjective like full or abundant would leave no room for doubt as to the sincerity of the speaker’s intentions.”
I had not actually realised that it could be meant in a negative way but will take note of it for future reference and file it in my “learn something new every day” box - thanks!
43 - I did warn you I hadn’t read it! But I’m sure my Latin teacher would be touched that, 10 years on, he has indirectly influenced someone to take an interest.
PB.com remains a mix of the robust and the fragile.
On another thread, I read of how ‘appalled’ certain readers were of an interview given by DD in Saturday’s Telegraph. I was intrigued, and fished it out of the paper salvage. Anodyne or what?
A couple of handsome young broads tip up on the same day as there are bombs in London. He gives them some general chat, while keeping an eye on the news that the terrorists are creating. And what did he say that would forfeit (precious?) pb.com contributors of their support? Search me.
I just tuned in to BBC Parliament to see the Ted Heath statement when Stephen Timms was finshing his answer. Is it me or does he resemble Gareth from The Office.
43 - I know there are many vicious rumours and comments aimed at Thatcher, but even I draw the line at calling her a lad
47 Apparently it was published in 65 same as my treatise on Greek metrics.
After such a happy omen, I’m sure I’ll love it.
I wonder if Riks hiatus is temporary or will be longer in duration. Still we all do/say really dumb things…
Mike, just to say thanks for putting this thread on the site even though it doesn’t really have anything to do with betting.
Like Andrew Milne and others I wasn’t born untill after Ted Heath had been replaced by Lady Thatcher. Again like others I don’t agree with evrything he did but I think there were a number of things he got right. The decision to join the EEC was and I think remains the right one. I also believe he was right to stand up to the unions in the way he did. He was also notable as being the last Tory leader prior to 1997 to take a pragmatic view on devolution (in his Perth decleration). Had his ideas been carried forward we may not have faced the problems as a party in Scotland as we do now.
All in all I think he was a decent man who served his country both in and out of the commons to the very best of his ability and I don’t think you can ask for too much more than that.
I see that the BBC Parliament Channel is running the 1970 General Election results programme on Thursday night. As I recall it was extraordinary because the pundits had got it completely wrong. it goes on for 4 hours.
Not having been alive at the time of Heath’s premiership I can only comment on that period from a detatched stadpoint. However it strikes me that spending 51 years in the Commons tends to indicate a man who saw politics as a vocation not a career. I think we are going to miss those type of Members in the House as it becomes more and more careerist.. Although I disagree with the underlying tenet of Heathite pro-Europeanism in that WW2 was solely the product of Nationalism and the remedy was to diminsh the nations. One has to admire a view passionately held and never deviated from. Again something that is increasingly rare in politics. I think the problems Heath faced during his premiership were huge and although there is a case for arguing that he rowed back from a radical manifesto and that had he stuck to his guns things would have been alright. This is essentially the Thatcherite version of history, there is a case for saying that had Heath stuck to the Selsdon Manifesto the wheels could have come off much quicker. Thatcher was only able to get away with toughing it out during her premiership because it was clear that the alternatives had been pretty much exhausted and that the opposition was in complete disarray. I get the impression that the 1970-74 Tory government will eventually be subject to a healthy revisionism which will place it where it belongs, as a necessary pre-cursor to the 79-97 Tory governments and as having serious merit albeit with some grave failures.
One of my favourite election memories comes from 1970.On the day after voting I was covering the daytime count in, I think, Morpeth for the Newcastle Journal by which time the national outcome was clear. The Morpeth count went on and on until at about 2.25 pm the Returning Officer announced that the sitting Labour mining MP had been re-elected. His victory speech, in a wonderful Northumbrian accent went like this; “I suppose I should be thanking the returning officer and the police but the pubs close in five mniutes so I’ll leave all of that to the Tory”. He then left ther hall along with half the people there.
As stated in my initial tribute, there were lots of things Ted Heath and I disagreed on, Europe being one of many and I thought the way he behaved toward Mrs Thatcher after she became leader was appalling, if at times understandable and only human. I do also concur with Sean Fear’s view that his brand of Conservatism was spent by 1974 and the party needed the change that we got in 1975.
More important than all of that, however, is being able to set petty grievances aside on the day of a distinguished gentleman’s death and giving him his due, which is richly deserved. Farewell, Sir Edward.
Re. 42, I know it’s not done to kick a man when he’s dead, but I generally find Rik W far less rebarbative and shrill than Sarah J. I’m glad she no longer lowers the tone of this place.
Heath was often rumoured to be the inspiration for Anthony Powell’s fictional anti-hero, Kenneth Widmerpool. In fact, having read Powell’s rather tetchy Journals, it’s clear that Widmerpool was based on a barrister by the name of Capell-Dunn.
50 I think Mags being “one of the lads” was possibly one of her greatest political assets …
58 - No, I don’t wish my comments to be taken as a wholesale condemnation of Rik or his views either. I would largely agree with his overall view of Heath’s tenure as Prime Minister, I simply think that it was in poor taste to have made the comments that were made so quickly after the man’s passing.
As Peter the Punter has said, everyone cocks up and says things they wish they hadn’t or could have been said differently.
Re Richard 58. Maybe I am doing the good lady a disservice but I do not think that Sarah J ever existed. She had many different IP addresses some of which were remarkably similar to other people on the site.
54, Mike, can you tell us what time the 1970 results programme is on Thursday. I love these things.
1970 was the first one I watched live. I know this because I can remember following my first by-elections in 1969.
Ah,
“My only light
Through teenage night”
If Tabman were here he could identify that song …
Sad, sad, I know, I know.
How can “cocks” get through the filter?
My main problem was with comments like “he won’t be missed”. Why are such sentiments necessary when someone is long apart from having any influence on politics and political life? I could understand how someone passionately opposed to Tony Blair, for example, could express such thoughts were he to meet some unhappy tomorrow - after all if you were to believe that he was in the process of doing untold damage to the country (which i don’t) then you could think that his passing would be beneficial to the wider political scene. But an 89 year old who has held no office for 30 years?
Robert 63.
It’s on from 7pm till 11pm. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/bbc_parliament/3139208.stm
Very witty tribute by TB in Parliament today.
67. Are you surprised, Roger?
Blair is a great actor!
I think Sarah J is the young girl to Ted’s left. She’d just unscrewed his front wheel………
67. Right wingers tend to find it easier to complement left wingers.
66, thanks Mike, I’m already looking forward to it.
Nicely timed for after the Test Match.
64, in the absence of Tabman: Queen: Radio Ga Ga.
Re. 66, I’ve just been over there. Rather amused to read that ‘the Liberal Democrats’ were no threat - I’m not surprised, when they didn’t exist. More seriously, the BBC just shows its unthinking liberal bias through the caption underneath Enoch Powell, saying the Tories won despite extremist views. In fact, I’ve read at least one academic analysis (in Robert Sheperd’s Enoch Powell biography) which argues convincingly that Powell supplied the extra 1.1% swing required for Conservative victory. Whatever you think of Powell’s views (and his ‘Rivers of Blood’ speech), they were extremely popular (especially among normal Labour voters, including the meatporters of Smithfield).
If it is true that Powell was instrumental in the 1970 victory, then it just seals the irony of his role in getting, then keeping, Britain in Europe (when the high swings to Labour at the February 74 Election, including in Powell’s old seat of Wolverhampton SW, led to the referendum of 75 which gave popular legitimacy to Britain’s membership of the then EEC).
Re. 63, my very first election night (of any description) was 92. I’d love to watch the 70 results programme, but I don’t have Sky (I live in a conservation area) and I don’t have Freeview (the town where I live can’t get it, or cable).
Can anyone here tell me the name of the track used for the Peugeot 1007 advert, and who it’s by?
Peredur @ 3 & 19: I note that, while ridiculing a trivial spelling mistake by Roger (and before that a less trivial one by VoteNow), you write ‘may’ instead of ‘might’, thus implying that perhaps he did indeed “become a half-way decent leader”. Matthew VII 4-5
The 1970 election is actually on BBC Parliament NOW
The BBC obituary for Sir Edward Heath suggests that he took up yachting upon the advice of his advisors who wanted him to seem more exciting. Is this accurate ? If true, then political image management goes back a lot further than I realised (this would be the 60s, when Mandleson etc were in short pants) and its all the more remarkable that Heath became a world class yachtsman if he only started in his mid 40s.
74, yes indeed, a friend has just rung me to alert - must be on twice ..does Labour actually win the second time?!
76 - yes.
The plot is here:
http://www.btinternet.com/~chief.gnome/
Richard 72. You can always watch BBC Parliament live on the internet. I’m watching the 1970 results programme now on my lap-top.
I’m watching it now on the BBC Parliament website (surprisingly smooth, given I don’t have broadband). I’ve just seen John Humphrys with enormous sideburns. Cliff Michelmore reminds me a lot of the late Richard Whiteley.
Robert Maxwell has just lost Buckingham !!
Im watching it also. If your my age (70) it brings back many memories.
If you young ones out there really wanted to see how far the BBC has come you should see some of the election broadcast from the 50’s.
80 , Moi . I’m not keen on Maxwell , he’s the sort of man who’d steal pension funds and disappear off the end of a boat ! Not quite one of us I feel .
Bad night for the Liberals , Richard Wainwright has just lost Colne Valley .
Maxwell looked thin. The only time I ever saw him, he was running across the pitch at the baseball ground (derby) and giving up after 30 yards. Even as a kid I remember thinking ‘what a fat *******’.
If my memory serve me right George Brown
Jennie Lee were defeated in this election. My sisters husband was also elected in Notthinghamshire.
The liberals were complaining about the election system even way back then.
The
83 - He´ll be back.
Conservatives only need 9 more seats for a majority . The Liberals on 4 seats having lost 6 . I think the Liberals are finished !
Have we lost Cheadle Hulme yet? (Only seems like yesterday that we were winning there). This was the Liberals worst election since the 1950s - yut how quickly things turned around.
Good grief , I think I’ve just seen my father at Royal Ascot . Rather orff having some woman accosting members of the Royal Enclosure asking for their views !
88 , Peter . Sorry I think you’ve only got Caithness , Inverness and Orkney to come . Might be as low as 7 !!
Can’t see you Liberals ever winning Cheadle Hulme - how ridiculous !!
The map they’re using seems to be from about 1690. The low-tech of it all is quite invigorating.
Some vicar chap called Ian Paisley has just won North Antrim - A fine figure of a man !!
59 - Richard, one of our posters has pretty much admitted he was Sarah J. Rather interesting psychological invetigation to be donw there - impersonating a stiletto-wielding uber-Tory femme fatale …
Sundry Jack W - I will soon be in a position to claim my £5. Inspector Tabman of the (back) Yard has your measure. But rest assured I know you are not the Austrian Corporal …
Apropos of the Rik outburst; perhaps he’d been supplied with some dodgy bin-end by John O? As my Northern Irish friend used to say: “Don’t drink on an empty head … ”
Robert - your bronze Tabman has feet of clay - dispite that being completely of my era, I missed it.
The Conservatives have just gained Monmouth !! Maj 1,355.
I see that firebrand Rev. Paisley has been elected member of north Bahn.
93, Tabman, what! Not know the anthemic Radio Ga-Ga? Are you sure you’re not going g.-..?!
Next you’ll be saying you’ve never heard of the constituency of Hastings and Rhye …
Peter Hain apparently caused some difficulties for the Liberals . No future in British politics I think .
96 - absolutely right! Hastings and Rye however … lovely hotel in Rye, the Mermaid.
The Big Fella From Ballymena: I’ll never forget during one of Thatcher’s attempts to bring some agreement to N Ireland, she was seeing all the party leaders in No.10.
A BBC TV reporter was standing in Downing St asking them for their reaction when they came out. They all gave it “a cautious welcome”.
Except Paisley, who quoth: “That Jezebel! Has supped with Beelzebub and will bring down the mighty Wrath of God! Ulster will Never Surrender!”
Reporter: “so it’s a cautious welcome, then, Mr Paisley?”
Jack W, has you heroine Gwyneth Dunwoody already lost her seat?
98, Tabman, a Mermaid? Perhaps she’s been swimming in …
Fear me you lord and lady preachers
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine
The seven seas of Rhye
Can you hear me you peers and privy councillors
I stand before you naked to the eyes
I will destroy any man who dares abuse my trust
I swear that you’ll be mine
At the seven seas of Rhye
93 - Tabman, you are a more Ace Detective than I.
However, I think I have located Jack W’s steed, the sixth specimen on this page:
http://www.stutteriskovlunden.dk/list.php
93 , Tabman . “…. I will soon be in a position to claim my £5 ”
They seek me here , they seek me there , those damn Lib Dems seek me everywhere…… ”
Signed : Sir Rodney Ffing
http://www.blakeneymanor.com/images/carryon/fingers.jpg
93, Tabman, while we’re at it: (and next you’ll say you never took a radio beneath the sheets ..!)
Radio I’d sit alone and watch your light
My only friend through teenage nights
And ev’rything I had to know
I heard it on my radio
You gave them all those old time stars
Through wars of worlds - invaded by mars
You made ’em laugh - you made ’em cry
You made us feel like we could fly
Radio
So don’t become some background noise
A backdrop for the girls and boys
Who just don’t know or just don’t care
And just complain when you’re not there
You had your time you had the power
You’ve yet to have your finest hour
Radio
All we hear is radio ga ga
Radio goo goo
Radio ga ga
All we hear is radio ga ga
Radio blah blah
Radio what’s new?
Radio someone still loves you
We watch the shows - we watch the stars
On videos for hours and hours
We hardly need to use our ears
How music changes through the years
Let’s hope you never leave old friend
Like all good things on you we depend
So stick around cos we might miss you
When we grow tired of all this visual
You had your time you had the power
You’ve yet to have your finest hour
Radio
All we hear is radio ga ga
Radio goo goo
Radio ga ga
All we hear is radio ga ga
Radio goo goo
Radio ga ga
All we hear is radio ga ga
Radio blah blah
Radio what’s new?
Someone still loves you
Radio ga ga
Radio ga ga
Radio ga ga
Radio
You had your time you had the power
You’ve yet to have your finest hour
Radio
101 - Robert, there was but one album for the record player (remember them?) in our 6th Form common room. That being “Queen Greatist Hits Vol 1″ - consequently all associated lyrics have been associated from my consciousness.
102 - Phil, potentially a little unfair as dear Jack alleges he has a son. Although I’m trying to ascertain what a “Golden jaffa” might allude to (out first time every time without firing?).
105,”Phil, potentially a little unfair as dear Jack alleges he has a son”
Even Camilla is allegedly a woman! (no offence to manarchists here)
104 - what links the following quotes?
“And now we meet in an abandoned studio.
We hear the playback and it seems so long ago.
And you remember the jingles used to go.”
“But shoot it in the right direction
Make making it your intention-ooh yeah
Live those dreams
Scheme those schemes
Got to hit me
Hit me
Hit me with those laser beams”
I think ‘Hit me with those laser beams’ is Two tribes by Frankie Goes to Hollywood (or not by them, if rumours are to be believed…) - not sure of the other one though…
It’s “Video Killed the Radio Star” by the Biggles - sorry Buggles - , but I’m still working on the link … media?
Is the first one ‘Video killed the radio star’ by Buggles?
Trevor Horn was Buggles and producer for Frankie Goes to Hollywood.
108 is “Relax”, I think ..
111, Lorcan, I still like media: I contributed radio, and tabman, being younger, moved on to video, and there’s film (Hollywood).
110 - the man with the big glasses in buggles is one Trevor Horn (no sniggering). He went on to become a top producer (producing one of my all time favourite albums of all time, ABC’s Lexicon of Love [1982]), setting up Sarm Studios and founding the record label Zang Tumb Tuum (ZTT). This label signed FGTH.
And the man behind Belle and Sebastian.
111 - Gold Star! Incidentally, did you see John Harris on Unversally Challenged earlier?
102/105 , book value and Tabman . Be careful my patience is limited !
http://www.blakeneymanor.com/images/carryon/justice.jpg
http://www.blakeneymanor.com/images/carryon/feet.jpg
114, many of the best things have been Made in Sheffield.
116. No, missed it.
Which pop song features the lines
“He thinks that I’m a cabbage,
Because I hate University Challenge”
119 - one of Fergal’s finer pennings
Except he pronounces it cyabbage
Incidentally, Chrisco and I were talking of Northern Irish identifiers the other day - isn’t that form of pronunciation (eg “Cyatholic”) a signifier of the nationalist community?
119. “My Perfect Cousin” by The Undertones ?
Talking of 1970, my first political memory is being on holiday on Saundersfoot beach on the Friday morning with a newspaper seller shouting “Ted in ! Harold out ! Ted in ! Harold out !”
Phil - http://www.itv.com/uploads/images/1103820733000_0.7053420363655803.jpg
Here’s lookin’ at ya, kid!
120. I *think* the lyric was written by Damien O’Neill.
You’re probably right about the pronunciation, but to my untrained ear the differences between counties are much more obvious. A Fermanagh accent is as different from Belfast as Brummie is from Cockney.
22-You dont think that NATO & independent Nuclear deterants have maintained the peace in Europe?
I know that people are trying hard to find good things to say about the EC,but isn’t this stretching the imagination a bit?
Trevor Horn was also behind the Russian ’school girl lesbian’ duet of Tatu - number one in February 2003.
What will spma man make of this
I must say that I am greatly surprised by some of the churlish commnents that have been made on PBCom about the late Sir Edward Heath. His policies were not always to my liking, but it was always possible to recognise him as a gentleman.
If I may be alowed to reminisce just a little bit…. I remember a public meeting in the 1960s, when he was Leader of the Opposition, and I went along and heckled just a bit (as one does).
Then came the moment for questions. Much to the indignation of the blue rinse Tory ladies who surrounded me, I was allowed to ask a question (about PR, of course), which Heath replied to, with all seriousness and courtesy (but with dodgy arguments, of course, but that is another matter…) - for which I will always remember him.
There was a difference then between him and his Party members, and it would seem there still is.
125 - Not all of us, John; if you read this thread and the previous one a bit closer, you’ll notice most of giving Sir Edward his due in a respectful manner. Many of us came to have idealogical differences with the man, which are no less valid than yours.
I have to say i didn’t think much of Charles Kennedy’s choice of anecdotes in the House of Commons tributes
Why? Seemed alright to me.
124 - concerning the Germans (west) and French then I think there’s a case.
125 - Spma man didn’t mind it at all (nor the offending words either ;))
129 - well it may be accurate of the man, but do you think Heath’s comment about Hague (obvious party loyalties excepted) portrays him in a positive light? Should Kennedy reveal what was probably intended as a private comment, especially on a day when many Tories were probably trying to be generous towards him? Was Kennedy just trying to make a cheap political jibe under the cover of it being someone else’s words?
131 - I thought Kennedy’s comments were questionable too; Ted Heath was known for making bright remarks all the time and I’m sure he (Kennedy) could have chosen others that didn’t cast another member of the House in a poor light. I am assuming it was his intention to be magnanimous, of course.
131 + 132 - I agree.
I think CK was trying to say something along the lines of “He could be curmudgeonly and even unfair, but we all loved him for his humanity” - but I can see how it comes across as a bit gauche, in writing at the very least.
Having seen it on the news, I didn’t think it came across on TV anywhere near as badly as it might come over in print. On the other hand, it makes you wonder if Kennedy was ‘kidding on the level’, and getting his own back for some of the more acerbic comments Hague made about the LDs at the time of the Iraq War.
Given some of the jokes Hague has made on the after-dinner speaking circuit (and in the House of Commons) about Peter Mandelson (’Lord Mandelson of Rio’ and ‘I wouldn’t want a reverse gearbox if I had Peter Mandelson behind me’), I don’t have all that much sympathy.
Not that I’ve ever liked Mandelson much (I took great pleasure in voting against him in the 97 NEC elections), but Hague’s snide references to his s*xual orientation were (and are) uncalled for.
135.”Given some of the jokes Hague has made on the after-dinner speaking circuit (and in the House of Commons) about Peter Mandelson (’Lord Mandelson of Rio’ and ‘I wouldn’t want a reverse gearbox if I had Peter Mandelson behind me’)”
Considering that he shared a flat with Alan Duncan, did he spend all his time when they lived together with his back turned against the walls?
134 - Yes, and to be fair Kennedy was clear in the anecdote that he felt Hague was actually entirely within his rights to make hay over the particular issue. It is not inappropriate to refer to a person’s flaws (and Heath was notoriously curmudgeonly) in that sort of speech along with his qualities - it is not a funeral address and is an opportunity to look at a person warts and all, albeit ultimately affectionately.
Indeed, Howard’s speech yesterday referred to many of Heath’s later disagreements with the Tory party being “manufactured” and also commented (affectionately but in clear terms) to Ted being a thorn in later leaders’ sides.
I thought Blair’s anecdote was brilliant, though:
“I remember that I first met him at a parliamentary reception in the mid-1980s shortly after I became a Member of this House. He said, “Are you an MP?” “Yes”, I said. “Which party?” “Labour”, I said. “Well, you don’t look like it or sound like it”, he said.”
It’s almost as good as the anecdote about Prince Philip and Bernie Grant:
Prince Philip: ‘What do you do?’
Bernie Grant: ‘I’m a Member of Parliament’
Prince Philip: ‘Really? In which country?’
137, It seems that Heat immeditaly recognized that something was wrong concerning Blair being a Labour MP.
Does anyone know any other of these anecdotes? They’re very funny.
Who was the political commentator who said “When Mr. Heath makes a joke, it is no laughing matter.”
139 - one of my favourite, rather crude, political anecdotes involves Attlee and Churchill.
Attlee was using the urinals in the toilets at the House of Commons when Churchill wandered in and, without a word of acknowledgement, deliberately went to use the furthest urinal from Churchill.
“That’s not very friendly, Winston.” said Attlee.
“Sorry, Clem, I didn’t mean to snub you,” said Churchill, “it’s just that whenever you see something big you want to nationalise it.”
141 - last word of second para should obviously be “Attlee” rather than “Churchill”!
I’ve got an even more vulgar one. Roy Jenkins, having just been appointed a European Commissioner, was addressing his last PLP meeting. When he said ‘I am leaving without rancour’, Denis Skinner piped up: ‘I thought Marquand was going with yer!’
There’s another one about Churchill and urinals. Apparently he was once by a urinal in the House of Commons when Baldwin joined him and said ‘At last, Winston, we meet on a common platform for a common purpose’.
Last, but not least, there’s one where Manny Shinwell went to Buckingham Palace:
Manny Shinwell: ‘I am Emanuel Shinwell. I have just been appointed His Majesty’s Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Mines. I have come to kiss hands with the sovereign’
Policeman at Buckingham Palace: ‘F*ck off’
143.”Roy Jenkins, having just been appointed a European Commissioner, was addressing his last PLP meeting. When he said ‘I am leaving without rancour’, Denis Skinner piped up: ‘I thought Marquand was going with yer!’”
Please, could you explain me this one? I haven’t understand it.
144. Andrea, Roy Jenkins had a speech impediment and pronounced his r’s like w’s. This would make the word ‘rancour’ sound like a very strong term of abuse.
David Marquand was a right wing ally of Jenkins, he joined him as his assistant when he became European Commissioner (Labour lost both the resulting by-elections). Marquand later followed Jenkins into the SDP.
145. Thanks Lorcan.
I didn’t know who Marquand was (what seat did he sit for?) and that Jenkins had pronunciation problems.
146. He was MP for Ashfield 1966-1997. He stood for the SDP in High Peak in 1983 and came second ahead of Labour. I think he’s now back in the New Labour fold.
147. was he MP for Ashfield until 1997 or until 1979?
148. Sorry, I meant 1977. He resigned his seat to take the job with Roy Jenkins in Europe. Labour lost the by-election to the Tories on a huge swing.
Re [149] IIRC it was held on the same day as the by-election in Grimsby caused by the death of Anthony Crosland, that seat - although notionally much more vulnerable than Ashfield - being held by Austin Mitchell for Labour. Bernard Levin was in the States at the time and on being told the results assured his hosts that they had got it the wrong way round… at least he was willing to tell the story against himself.
149. ok.
The tories didn’t last very long in Ashfield. In 1983 it was already Labour. Did the tories lose it back to Labour in 1979?
Yes, he rejoined the Labour Party after Blair became leader, but has recently written many articles (in the New Statesman and Prospect) which are fiercely critical of Blair and New Labour (though there are no suggestions that he’s going to re-rat).
The book for which he’s most well-known, The Unprincipled Society, is well worth reading.
Re. 151, yes, as they did with other unlikely by-election gains such as Workington and Birmingham Stechford.
153. By-elections produce sometimes strange results.
Which seats could produce interestings by-elections in this term (not that I want something bad to happen to some MPs)?
147 and 152 - I understand that David Marquand has given up on New Labour and allowed his membership to lapse. I don´t think he has joined any other party.
155. This guy is a bit undecided.
Roy Jenkins’s biggest fault is to have lost against Galloway. Maybe if he would have kept his seat in 1987, Galloway would have not had another chance to enter the Commons. But I must admit that GG is a source of entertainment (sometimes).
156 - I think he can convincingly argue that his views (pro-European social democrat) have remained the same and that the positions of the parties have changed.
157. yes, he could argue it. Infact sometimes I wonder why some people stayed in the Labour party when their views are so different from today Labour’s aims (for