Markets move to June 2007 departure
September 27th, 2006-
Will Gordon have to wait longer before he can go at Cameron?
Comments in a Radio 4 interview by the Education Secretary and possible leadership challenger, Alan Johnson, that Tony Blair would stay longer than most people were expecting has led to active trading on the departure date and the “length of third term” spread betting markets.
Johnson’s comments indicated a late summer departure which could deprive the new leader of taking over while the Commons is still sitting. It’s known that Gordon Brown has been pressing for the actual transfer date to be during the parliamentary session so that, if elected, he could have five or six weeks to “go at Cameron” before the recess.
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If Johnson is calling this right then the new leader would probably have to wait until October 2007 before facing the Tory leader across the chamber at Prime Minister’s Questions.
The market from Cantor Spreadfair on how many weeks Blair’s third term will continue for is now showing a spread of 101-106 weeks which is six weeks longer than yesterday and would take the change-over into June.
Week one began on May 9th 2005 so the buy price starts in June 2007. The bookmaker makes clear that “…if Tony Blair announces his resignation for a date in the future, but carries on as Prime Minister in the interim, then the market will be settled on his actual final day as Prime Minister, not the time of the announcement”.
This is very different from the Betfair betting exchange definition of the market which is “When will Tony Blair officially cease to be leader of the Labour Party?”
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I can see problems of interpretation ahead on this if Blair were to announce, say, in April that he was planning to go at the start of July when a new leader was in place. The party rules seem to indicate that no election is possible until Blair has stepped aside so the operative date would be when that is submitted.
This is one of the reasons why you can still get 5.6/1 on the July-September option.
When Iain Duncan Smith, who incidentally I met today, had to step down in the autumn of 2003 Betfair settled on the basis of his leaving date - not when the vote of no confidence went through.
Mike Smithson
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Watch out, the “stay Tony stay” bandwagon may never stop
If you want to smile…it seems that McDonnell said during a fringe meeting about Venezuela that if he wins the leadership race, he would make Jeremy Corbyn Foreign Secretary.
Anyone dare to think what a McDonnell cabinet could look like?!
Mike, any chance of a piece about your opinions on Cruddas betting values for the Deputy position in the near future?
Of course, Tone carrying on for ever is not incompatible with his “this is my last Conference”. Next year he could simply be diplomatically unavailable to speak (urgent businesss in Jerusalem, etc)
3. or maybe he just abolishes the conference
2. Home Secretary - Stalin Foreign Secretary - Trotsky
NI Secretary - Bobby Sands Education Secretary - Rosa Klebb Chancellor - George Blake (now he has a few quid) DTI - Scargill
2. Seriously it can probably look like this: Marshall Andrews at the Home Office, Alan Simpson as Chancellor, Corbyn at Foreign Office, Lynne Jones at Health, Clapham at DTI, Abbott at Culture Department, Gibson at Education, …..
I added £2 to my Jan 2008 position @ 100/1 a while back
Probably a waste of money, but you know Tony.
Glad you met IDS, I always had rather a lot of respect for him and felt he was rather hard done by.
Given all the ‘revisionist’ interpretations being expressed after Blair’s ‘tear-jerker’ of a speech
isn’t it about time we had a reassessment of IDS?
7 - Guido your link doesn’t make sense. Alastair Campbell said on Radio 5 yesterday that Tony Blair believed in the things he believed in when he was a young man. Are you sure the leaflet isn’t a fake?
Either that or Alastair Campbell wasn’t being entirely honest - and that could never happen.
Choosing Cruddas would be a disasterous mistake. No one will know how to pronounce his name and even if they can it doesn’t sound very attractive.
Mike. Did you congratulate Iain on his “Quiet Man” speech? I bet they’re still talking about at Central Office
9. Max, the Campaign Briefing (the conference bulletin distributed by Labour Left) has featured a couple of old quotes of Tony.
“What is really unbelievable depressing about government’s response is that to promote environmental concern, but the chance to make a case for nuclear power”
(Tony in 1988 as Shadow Energy Secretary)
“We believe US policy is throughly misguided and a serious obstacle to democratic transition in Cuba”
(Tony in 1995)
10 - It’s not scientific but he got a very good reception from listeners on Radio 5. I’m not sure his name is a huge problem.
There are worse - IIRC there is a US politician called Mr. Crappo and one of Nick’s predecessors as MP for Broxtowe - Seymour Cocks.
12. And the former MP for Hayes and Harlington was called Terry Dicks and he used the “we love Dicks” slogan
I was just watching Newsround because I fancy Ellie and was amazed to see GB being interviewed by two objectionable fat children. Newsround’s chocolate smeared viewers voted NO (about 75% - 25%) on the question of whether GB will be a good PM. The bad news just continues.
Blair staying another year - ish - is simply disastrous news for Labour. What on earth can he cope to achieve, other than irritating the hell out of voters, and messing with the succession.
As everyone has noted, he should have gone yesterday, on a high. Instead we get to see his grasping fingers being prised from the crown, knuckle by knuckle.
Great political theatre, good for the Tories, appalling for Labour.
12. ‘Cruddas’ sounds like something that gets stuck in a U-bend whereas ‘Crappo’ flows quite smoothly and it’s easy to get your tongue around a ‘Cocks’.
16. “it’s easy to get your tongue around a ‘Cocks’. ”
but it’s easy to think about another thing too….or am I the only one who thought about it?
17. Just conceivably Roger might have been engaging in a spot of double entendre…
18. PM, ah, well, he saw Clinton this afternoon and so maybe he gave him inspiration
Btw, waiting for the card vote result (announced tomorrow), it seems that delegates backed the motion against the new NHS plans
Is it true that Johnson’s speech wasn’t anything exceptional? Anyone heard him?
Leaving in the summer would be okay, elction wise, provided the date has been announced before the May elections. I suspect he hopes to go on and on, and is relying on a good Labour result next May.
What would be a good result, bearing in mind Labour did poorly in 2003.
14 Simon - if those were the same two kids that were on the Daily Politics, I didn’t think they were fat at all. It’s a lot easier to understand Gordon Brown when he’s being interviewed by 12 year olds. Perhaps I should watch Newsround more often.
Johnson’s speech was poor. There really isn’t anyone who comes close to Brown as a replacement for Blair. The fact that that Mandelson has joined Cherie in rubbishing him will possibly be his saving. Blair’s the hero at the moment but reading Drapers piece it’s obvious his backers are soon going to over-reach themselves Mandelson was pretty grotesque yesterday.
22 - Tomorrow’s speech by Reid should be interesting in that case. I wonder if he’s going to stake a claim.
Leadership is just that. Johnson has not in my opinion offered anyone inspiration to shout at the roof tops ‘be the next leader, be a potential prime minister’. Reid’s speech will be interesting because it will at least offer a contrast in styles to Brown and Blair.
I’ve always felt it would be a go idea to make Simon Heffer PM, Richard Littlejohn Home Secretary, Melanie Phillips Foreign Secretary, Peter Hitchens Chancellor, They seem to know how to do everything! give ‘em a chance thats what I say.
Reid has only to declare something else ‘not fit for purpose’ to make the headlines. Gordon, maybe?
3 and 4.
Or Tony could do a John Major and retire as Labour leader but remain as Prime Minister, he did after all promise to serve a full third term, did he not?
Johnson & McDonnell still first equal in Snowflake5’s poll.
22. If the conference has proved anything so far, it’s that there isn’t anyone who comes close to Blair to replace Blair. Gordon will no doubt be earnest and relatively competent - though overconfidence might be a problem, but there’s nothing inspirational. Remember, a GB is worth only a thousandth of a TB.
28. “but there’s nothing inspirational. ”
I talked about it with a fellow pb.comers some days ago…I think the fact if a speech is inspirational or not also depends on who you’re and what you believe in.
Comeron’s speech doesn’t inspire me, but it’s probably because I don’t exactly care about Conservative Party’s new challenges.
On the other hand I found Cathrine Sthiler’s defeating speech in Dunfermline inspirational (the “we fought and lost, but we’ll fight again for the Labour values and will win again) inspirational, but I doubt that a Libdem or a Tory would do the same.
29. Yes, I think there’s a lot in that, but you could see in the audience in Manchester, there were many willing Gordon to deliver that performance and it didn’t really happen. There is of course a lot more to being PM or party leader than making good speeches and Brown is no doubt a capable person, but he has to sell himself and his party to the country.
I think the best he’ll be able to do is say that he’s a decent man who’s got a strong track record and is trustworthy (I’m not really sure I belive that last bit, but it emphasises the break with Blair). It appeals to the head, but not the heart; not the 1997 mood of ‘things can only get better’; not the white heat of revolution; not the New Jerusalem. Those are supposed to be the kind of things that get Labour pulses racing. With Brown, I suspect people will feel bullied rather than inspired into voting Labour - ‘look at this list of 683 achievements we’ve done for you, now vote for us’.
30. yes, you’re right in saying that Brown sometimes tend to list his achievement in the same you would list the things to buy at the supermarket.
Blair’s speech was full of list of achievements too…some of them were nonsense as Wolfi would say or some plenty wrong (Baroness Young was the first female leader of the Lords and she wasn’t certainly Labour!), but it’s the way he says them that it’s different…at the moment you don’t immediately realize the bullsh*t he sometimes says.
SHOCK POLL DATA ON THE LEADERSHIP See PB.C tomorrow. This will be posted by 6am on Thursday morning.
Mike Smithson
32. How bad will Brown do?
Maybe it’s Cherie and Clare running neck and neck
(wanting Blair to stay for another term wouldn’t be shocking in this context, wouldn’t it?)
35 - I’m guessing John McDonnell is in the lead.
35. if they polled just Islington North delegates, maybe
83 percent of Labour voters would prefer David Cameron as PM to Gordon Brown.
20 -”bearing in mind that Labour did poorly in 2003″
Through summer of 2002 ICM polls showed Labour in low 40s, Tories low 30s and LIBDEMs about 20%
ICMs last poll (April) before the local elctions in May 2003 was not significanly diffferent.
Recent ICM - Labour low 30s, Tories high 30s and LiBDEMs about 20%
Labour must therefore be in for a significant swing against them if the current polls reflect what happens to them in May 2007
If it’s a shock, perhaps Gordon is doing well??
35. It’s not the one done by Snowflake is it?
Seriously, it depends what questions were asked, by whom and of whom. I’m sure we’ll find out in due course.
40. actually leadership of what party?
I like shock polls, gets the blood pressure going!
The shock, for Mike will be Alan Johnson walking it
I heard Johnson on the Today prog saying that Headteachers didnt need to be at school for the breakfast clubs, after school activities.
Declaring an interest as huspand of a primary school headteacher - She gets there at 7.30 every morning (or earlier) and has at least 2 evening meetings per week (Governors, Friends etc.) - If the Breakfast club or whatever goes wrong - the school (that is the Head) will be blamed.
Has this bloke been in a school?
32.”SHOCK POLL DATA ON THE LEADERSHIP ”
the “poll data” description would make me think that it’s not a new poll, but Mike elaborating/studying the full data of a previous poll….am I far from the reality?
32- Oh Mike you tease us! I guess it won’t be up before 3am but will I be able to go to sleep before then given how tantalising it must be?
Has Brown bombed? Is this the tipping point? Who has benefitted?
Me thinks maybe John Reid… We shall see.
It’s either Brown home and hosed, the Tony bandwagon or its Reid… anyone I know who would not vote for Labour would consider Reid a man with something to offer. Despite the fact that social worker set hate the man, most Labour voters are not in that set.
Who came up with this poll data by the way? Can we be told that much?
when will they do “real” poll about the Lab leadership, will pollster build a sample of Trade Union members too? And then weight everything
46. It could be “please stay Tony”. I have said before I would prefer the smooth transition of power, that being from Blair to Cameron. Blair to Brown is anything but smooth.
There seems to be a view amongst the apparently expert watchers I’ve come across in the media is that Reid is the likely guy to do the kamikazee and launch a bid. Johnson has somewhat dropped away as the likely name.
It will pay a challenger to Brown not to hint at anything at conference because so much emphasis will be put on their conference presence and speeches a la the Tory leadership election. Better to let memories fade a little then launch. If Reid keeps confronting Moslem radicals in meeting halls his approval rating will rise, guaranteed.
x40, David - I’m not important enough for my poll to feature in one of pbc’s articles!
For those wondering what the results of my pol were - as at this moment in time, Johnson and McDonnell tied on 20.6%, Brown on 17.5%, Benn on 15.9%, 9.5% for Milburn, 9.5% for Straw, 3.2% for Miliband, and 3.2% for Reid. 63 people participated, thanks to Mark Wadsworth for energetically promoting it everywhere.
The “who do you vote for” poll came out at Con 36.8%, Lab 33.8%, Lib 23.5% and others/don’t vote 5.9% - which means my readership (and hence participation in the leadership poll) isn’t far off the distribution of the general public!
Of course those participating are activists of one kind or another, so I guess not quite properly representative of the general population. Also, I suspect some might have been voting for those they thought would be the worst option for labour and the best for their parties.
The only conclusion to be drawn is that no one had a commanding majority and people are hopelessly split. I was surprised at the popularity of Hilary Benn though - someone to watch for the future. And for all the talk of people liking Reid, it didn’t translate into votes - activists don’t like him, even if focus groups do.
Has anyone heard word from the Battersea primary tonight?
Again some hints about where the leadership polling data originated when and who it was done by would help. We can wait for the figures and interpretation.
Interesting article Mike as usual. I wonder what damage Tony hanging on will do to Labour.
I note you teasing us with your poll news to be posted at 6 am. You ought to go to hell for that one
If anyone is interested I have a lit of Browns achievements in office on my blog here:
http://aconservatives.blogspot.com/2006/09/that-brown-record-in-full.html
48. but it wouldn’t so shocking considering the last 2 days have been about how great St Tony is.
And if you talk about ” smooth transition of power between TB and DC” it means that Tony maybe wasn’t so convincing yesterday considering it spent part of his speech to explain that he’s not a closet tory, but he’s Labour (and he loves his party!)
Why would it be Johnson to come out with the Tony is staying a little longer comment?
I recall Alex Ferguson’s ‘last season’ in charge at Manchester United some three years ago. Go on Tony do a Fergie and stay on!
50. “I was surprised at the popularity of Hilary Benn though - someone to watch for the future.” One problem there is that he will be 53 in a couple of months. Even if whoever follows Blair loses at the next election and Benn is elected straight afterwards, if it looks like the parliament will go the distance he’ll be pushing 60 before he could become PM. No first time prime minister has been elected from opposition at that age since Attlee - and that in very different circumstances. I can’t see there being more than one more leader of the Labour party from this generation.
57, Yes, you are right. And his popularity might be to do with the Benn name, and with being International Development secretary which rarely gets bad press.
SHOCK POLL DATA ON THE LEADERSHIP - RELEASED :
PB.com’s most exclusive polling organization - Anonymous Random Selection of Electors has released startling information on the Labour leadership election. The results have been verified by the Birmingham branch of the North Korean Labour party :
Q1. If you had your head flushed down the toilet after John Prescott had used the khazi, who would you prefer to replace him as Deputy Leader of the Labour Party :
Nick Palmer 37% .. seanT 23% .. Saddam Hussein 17% .. Lord Matlock 9% .. Harpic Toilet Cleaner 8% .. Alan Duncan 6%
Q2. If Tony Blair was accidently found dead with the Chancellor removing a knife from his back, a rope from his neck and a shotgun from his hands, who would you prefer to become the object of Gordon Brown’s ability to be in the right place at the wrong time as Prime Minister :
Hercule Poirot 24% .. Agatha Christie 22% .. Dixon of Dock Green 18% .. Sherlock Holmes 14% .. Inspector Morse 12% .. The Bill 8% .. Nick Palmer 2% .
Jane Ellison won Battersea selection!
People are very fickle. Remember how no-one could stand Diana-a cheap publicity seeker -and then she died and suddenly she became a saint? No-one knows what Gordon will be like. Hutton and Reid are not at all attractive to any Labour voters I can think of. Reid might appeal to Tory’s because they think he might be brutal to criminals immigrants Gypsies etc. Johnson is just useless as we’ve seen these last two days. He was a mirage that just couldn’t cut it.
What do you think of Jon Cruddas’ idea that the deputy leader not be deputy PM?
51 Unchased Man. Mrs Dale’s Diary is reporting that Jane Ellison has won the Conservative Battersea open primary selection.
62 - interesting idea… do we need a deputy PM? Do parties need deputy leaders?
(Somebody asked the LDs in the early 1990s who their deputy leader was. Nobody knew - or cared! They then dug out the constitution and found it was the longest serving MP - Sir Russell Johnston. Well, that clearly would not do, so they chose to have an elected one instead.)
Off Topic. Did anyone see that student on the 7.O’clock news who answered an ad in a student publication saying “‘A Director Cameraman’ wanted for a week to go round with Cabinet Ministers to put together a film for the conference. No money but all expenses paid and great experience”. The student who answered the ad had his film played at the Conference and has now complained because he wants to be paid! He is a student at Keele University
Anyone who is serious about getting into the film business would give their right arm for a chance to make a film that would be seen by so many people and to get that on their CV. What creepy delusional student’s they must produce these days
61. I’m wondering to whom Reid appeals to - certainly not activists from any of the parties. Makes you really wonder about Luntz’s results. The only conclusion is that people are completely divided (where once they were completely united that it was Brown to succeed). Just goes to show the power of the negative publicity we’ve been seeing lately.
Roger are those Labour voters you know unskilled/semi skilled workers or professionals?
63. Jack, as suspected, some ConHome posters don’t like this selection…it seems she’s Europhile
64. SBS, he mentioned some weeks ago what he thinks the duties of Lab deputy leaders should be:
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1873110,00.html
67. Do you think Reid’s tough approach will go down well in working class members…for ex the ones who can consider BNP….
Andrea I believe that many activists in the Labour Party are actually far removed from the everyday working class person that votes Labour. I call these activists the “social worker set” who go on about the poor & deprived working class ghettos blah blah but wouldnt be seen dead in such an area.
Not really on the BNP score, partially because that numnber is so small Labour can afford to lose them. The average Labour working class voter who is white (the overwhelming majority of Labour voters are white, heaven forbid!) can take Reid because he appears straight. They don’t mind, indeed they like tough, straight talking and Reid appears to be that type of bloke. They liked Tony because hes a good communicator and many may well like Reid because he’s got the previously mentioned qualities. How do you thinking the averege e once every 4 years Labour working class white person felt when Reid told some radical that there was nowhere in the country that he was restricted from going to? I suspect they were thinking ‘too damn right, John, you tell em’
In short the activists in the party are not necessarily reflective of those who vote for them….
68. I doubt the ConHome posters would have been pleased with ANY result, to be honest. I’m not even sure that a man wearing a placard proclaiming “I hate DC,” the immediate withdrawal from the European Union and the renunciation of the A list would get much praise. They’d probably say he was being too opportunistic.
70. I think I understand what you mean…they like him for the reason I dislike him
But even Gorgeous George like him (he said Reid is like Stalin..which I suppose it was meant as a compliment by GG)
I don’t know the profile of an average Labour member now though…well, I suppose it changes across the country.
The students footage of Johnson where he was seen visiting a school didn’t show him in a good light. Fortunately the student didn’t seem to know how to switch the camera’s sound off so we got some unguarded Johnson which didn’t resemble the laid back charmer at all.
Yokel. Not skilled/semi skilled workers
71. Elena, it seems she has also her fans though
73. Roger that answers my question, thanks.
Andrea..pretty much.
I think people tend to forget that whilst many core Labour voters may be considered to be on what is broadly considered to be the ‘left’ (though im not sure such terms are relevant but have been used for general understanding) say on the NHS or redistribution of wealth, many are very much on the ‘right’ when it comes to law & order and say immigration, completely at odds with the social worker set.
If the Tories grasp some nettles on law & order they could absolutely murder Labour. Come next election I suspect it’ll be a very prominent issue.
SHOCK POLL DATA ON THE LEADERSHIP
If I know Mike this isn’t good news for Gordon!!!!
73. Indeed. I fail to see Johnson as any kind of challenger now, not because he bombed but because he didn’t shine today. He, and every other candidate bar Brown, goes into the leadership contest at an immediate disadvantage that they need to make up. To do that, Johnson needed momentum, arguably from this conference. He needed to blow the socks off of delegates and the assembled media. He didn’t.
I know that there’s all this scrabbling for an “alternative” candidate but I think that the Labour succession is a very different ballgame to the Tory elections of 1990 and 2005. Gordon Brown is not just a frontrunner like Heseltine and Davis were. He has been frontrunner for 14 years. He has built up a formidable base of support. He is the only candidate in many people’s eyes. He’s not just a “strong” candidate. The perception is that he can’t and shouldn’t be beaten for the leadership because he deserves it for waiting 14 years. There may be some Blairites who are upset at all this, but that seems to be the reality.
That said, I do despair for a Brown premiership, I really do. I can’t stand Blair, but you could tell he was a leader yesterday. The Chancellor, in comparison, does not have those same qualities. Cameron? Haven’t made my mind up about that one, yet.
Roger @ 61 said: Reid might appeal to Tory’s because they think he might be brutal to criminals immigrants Gypsies etc.
Well this Conservative (I can’t stand the T word, btw) voter would certainly never consider that being brutal to anyone is an appealing characteristic in a politician. I’m very much in favour of less use of prison and of totally unlimited immigration (though I accept that the later is certainly never going to be Conservative Party policy).
I never cease to be amazed by Roger’s bizarre characterisation of what being a Conservative supporter is about. Conservative voters are a very, very broad spectrum of people you know!
I do sometimes wonder whether Roger won his political opinions in a raffle or something like that?
Cameron better not do this coming away from the podium engaging up close with the audience business, questions from the floor business. Thats so like 2-3 years ago.
He’s done the friendly guy act, its time to appear like a leader.
78. ” I can’t stand Blair, but you could tell he was a leader yesterday. The Chancellor, in comparison, does not have those same qualities. ”
It seems that Brown was very good at today’s NEC meeting making 2 members switch vote about NHS reform (16 to 15 in favour of the government policy was the final vote at the NEC). Blair let him advocating the case.
79. Steven read my question to Roger, his answer and my posts about Labour voters you might be a touch enlightened where Roger is coming from.
Steven W. I don’t know whether you were around during the 80’s and 90’s and whether you heard Michael Howard speak at Conservative Conferences? Or perhaps Anne Widdicombe or better still John Waddington? Indeed Michael(He who did the crime gets the time) Howard was picked unanimously to become party leader!
82.”his answer and my posts about Labour voters you might be a touch enlightened where Roger is coming from. ”
well, he lives in City of Westminster constituency….I don’t think there’re many not skilled workers there……I got the impression that those Lab CLPs in hopeless seats tend to be more left wing than the rest (the Isle of Wight CLP has always to complain about the leadership usually followed by Esh3r and Walton CLP and Mole Vally CLP) They’re those kinds of CLPs who liked to nominate Wolfgang and friends for the NEC elections.
” City of Westminster ”
I meant Cities of London & Westminster!
Not so much geographically as the political creed…
Though you are very probably right about people in no-hoper situations being more radical!
87. It can be because they lose anyway, so they find more difficult to accept compromises….if you can compromise to win, but compromising to lose anyway is less appealing
[76] Yokel argues if the Tories grasp some nettles on law & order they could absolutely murder Labour. Come next election I suspect it’ll be a very prominent issue.
Just remind me what Michael Howard ran on last time - are you thinking what I’m thinking
?
Those two views do make you unusual among Conservatives, Steven - if they were the only issues to be considered, you’d probably find the LibDems closest? What makes you a Conservative, as a matter of interest?
I agree with the point that the Tories, and both other parties too, have a huge range of individual views. I know a LibDem activist who is a zealous evangelical churchgoer, always ticking me off for being soft on homosexuality and the like. I often wonder why he’s a LibDem, but don’t like to press him for fear he’ll go Conservative!
89. I can’t remember a single solid Tory policy on crime at last election. No strategy that I heard delivered in a cherenet way to the public, so either there wasn’t a clear laid out strategy or it wasn;t communicated.
That was also last election, I’m talking about the coming election.
Come on Innocent stop living in the past!
I just made up a word…cherenet, it was coherent in my head. Too many cake calories are getting stored in my fingers
65: ‘What creepy delusional student’s they must produce these days’
Absolute rubbish. You sound just like the sort of nasty capitalist this country has had to suffer since the industrial revolution. What’s the matter, can’t get enough foreign fruit pickers on your farm in Surrey for £1.50 an hour? This poor young student was exploited by a bunch of selfish, greedy twerps who aren’t fit to cut the toenails of the working man. If they wanted someone to help with their nasty little film then one of them should have given his butler the day off to trudge around the grotty streets of Witney or wherever.
91,Yokel,I’d brsce yourself till at least next Sept (2007)’s Tory conference for anything solid-and even then I’m being kind to the f***ers !
93: Oops, sorry roger - misread your post and thought he was making a film for the Tories. You’re absolutely right, of course. What an ungrateful little twit that student was.
93,Buisnessmen of that ilk deserve to be sectioned in good-old-fashioned Soviet psychiatric hospitals-as do the right-wing of today’s British Conservative Party
93 Fred, Roger is one of your people, a Socialist.
You know, one of life’s speed bumps.
93 & 95 - RAOFLMAO… so if it’s labour doing it then the student’s ‘an ungrateful little twerp’, if it’s the tories doing it then he’s a ‘poor young student exploited by a bunch of selfish, greedy twerps’.
Very balanced. Well done.
God what an open all embracing bunch we are….sending people you don’t agree with to old style soviet hospitals…of course the left are all embracing and their fascist tenbdencies are righteous thus perfectly legitimate.
I think its envy ….
95 Perhaps you should have him eliminated anyway. His post is suspiciously reactionary.
I suspect he is a spectable wearer. PolPot eliminated spectacle wearers because they are intellectuals.
98 Spot on.
Exploitation of students is ok if its done by the Labour party.
Lefties are such idiots.
Jimbob - I think you need to switch your irony detector on. Red Fred and you are kindred spirits.
99,I would’nt say envy-I’m 35,can compare the last nine and half years of Tony Blair to the previous 9 1/2 years (ie late 1987-ay 1997),and I would say ‘A hell of a lot better-not perfect,don’t get me wrong,but things are better domestically for most-stable economy,low mortgage rates,steady-as-she goes -my joke about the Soviet Union was just that (although if I ever read ‘Then Daily Mail’ for fun,I may digress!:lol:)
Course its envy Patrick if you had nothing to kick against you’d feel empty inside….
103 - Listen to the sound of back pedalling.
“The people of the Soviet Union are happy. They had their elections in 1917″
Remember the look on the faces of the lefties when the Berlin wall came down?
Lefties are Idiots.
102 - Ah… if that’s the case then apologies all round.
The Daily Mail should be banned for being a cause of anxiety and depression…screaming effing headlines every day. I can’t wait for the one saying the sky is going to fall in.
93. You heard it here.
Labour are a bunch of selfish, greedy twerps who aren’t fit to cut the toenails of the working man
I couldnt agree more.
Lefties are so dumb.
78. Elena, re: the next Labour leader.
For those of us seeking a value bet in the contest, “all this scrabbling for an “alternative” candidate” is the crux of the matter. Brown appears unassailable and yet there are doubts! A contest against a serious candidate appears likely.
The challenge is to correctly identify his likeliest serious challenger(s).
Neither stalking horses nor talking horses are rewarding to back!
I was ‘Labour’ before Tony Blair-around the mid 80s,as a teenage boy,going to a local grammar school,with respectable council estates,icluding a secondary modern,and the local bus depot,I started to be interested by a young-ish leader of the Opposition,Mr.Neil Kinnock.I would be the first to acknowledge he made errors in his time,I also remember my gran and grandad being subject to ‘The Excepinal Cold Winter Payment’-as I recall,it kicked in when the average temperature fell to minus 1.5 C for a week-oh yes,Ms Edwina Currie kindly piped up ‘Pensioners should knit socks to keep warm’..I’m sure even Tory posters could appreciate I did not like Gran and Grandad being patronise like this. If I was totally honest,I still vote Labour now,because even though my grandparents are deceased,they COULD have enjoyed a better living standard,with Winter Fuel Allowance,free TV licence under the present Labour government than the previosu Tory administration-who kindly suggested their last few months were paid for by the sale of their house….Now,I’m not bitter,twisted,any other fault any Tory poster may care to name-but can you seriously blame me for saying I would rather be in my own coffin than vote for the British Conseravtive Party??!!
The bargain was in the Deputy leadership contest. Hain was at 6/1 at one stage yet the 3 ahead of him in the betting were unlikely to run.
He’s now as low as 2/1 out there. The joys of hedging can hopefully begin…
Patrick yes I can blame you because its your choice for who to vote for ipso facto, your fault.
I don’t have a problem with anyone choosing their party, i just find it odd that a governing party in a fully functionaing demnocracy would let hundreds of killers and associates out in the streets in my country then pump money into allowing them to act important via community groups….
And to top it all won’t allow me to vote for that governing party or indeed against it..
112,For what,its worth,I (assuming I am correct in referring to whom you refer) feel it is high time they were told ‘If you want to be moderate,fit in,then no problem-if you want to dictate to us,bully us,claim rights over and above that of the indigenous popualtion,then you can f*** off, would be my blunt advice-by no means am I mealy-mouthed,or liberal!
110 Lefties filter information they dont like.
Apparently “things have only got better”
Young people are crippled with debt and cannot buy a home. Older people have had their pensions raided. And all the time, immigrants are driving house prices up and wages down.
Labour is turning Britain into a banana republic. Things will get even worse. If the public are angry now, think how they will be in 4 years. They will have an opportunity to demonstrate it when the canvasser knocks and at the Local Elections.
Response from PM of the UK to a politician who does not have an armed wing backing him when he complained that said PM was paying far too much heed to a political party with armed wing…not quite exact words but response was
“The problem is that you don’t have guns….”
So much for the roughly 75% of the population who didnt vote for groups with armed wings. I’ve heard of minority rights but….
115,My post at 114 acknowledges things have NOT all got better-I am attempting to be balanced (though the biased atmosphere of highly strung right-wing loonies on here sometimes makes me wonder why I bother!!-I’m calling it a night,I hope Snowflake 5 keeps up her excellent work tomorrow! :lol:)
Patrick…they are people who disagree with you thats all…..however divorced from reality they may appear.
I’d be more concerned about the mugging thats probably happening in your town just about..now.
Can’t stay up any longer for the poll. I’ll just have to go to bed dreaming and assuming Bye Bye Gordon…
Patrick (last night)
I am astonished that a guy who says he understands politics thinks that he voted Labour - you live in Bournemouth East - your vote for Labour last year just helped the creepy classic Tory Tobias Ellwood into parliament - Labour will not win Bournemouth East even after hell has frozen over - so why did you vote Labour?
Gerry