Blair quizzed again in honours probe
February 1st, 2007Big news within the past ten minutes could see changes on the various Labour succession markets.
More will follow here as the story devolops.
Mike Smithson
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Serious news indeed. I see there was no mention of whether or not it was under caution. I suspect there will be jitters in the market.
(*cough* there is of course morebackground on my blog
)
oh- Commentators death or what on the last posting pages!!!
Not a resignation but a second interview! Tut - Tut!
May have to eat my words!!!!
~From the bbc website:
A civil service note-taker was present, but no lawyer, as the prime minister was not interviewed under caution.
so no caution….
Bet they delibratly did a D-notice on this, otherwise he would have been finished at PMQ’s yesterday. Cameron must have known what went on? Either that or he was very lucky? Maybe MI5/6 are tipping him off to get Labour out????!!!!
Can anyone tell me what the hell the police were doing asking for a news blackout? For me that is the story not the fact that blair was interviewed as a witness. Just what are they doing, if any thing it sort of makes the whole process slightly farcical.
Scotland Yard: PM interviewed as witness to “clarify points”….
~ 4
Maybe MI5/6 are tipping him off to get Labour out????!!!!
“Am i really that dangerous, A first generation public school boy, who went to oxford, am I really that much of a threat?”
Well at least we will stop hearing Labour people moaning about police leaks.
5.”Can anyone tell me what the hell the police were doing asking for a news blackout?” This information came from the PMOS, Adam Boulton is not happy about the lobby/public being mislead by either/both Downing Street and the Police. He is saying that they have not been able to get confirmation or a denial from Scotland Yard regarding a police imposed news blackout.
9.The police have just confirmed their request for a news blackout just after I posted.
8 but it will set off all the Conservative people moaning about cover ups
Hopefully this is the answer to our woes:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6319671.stm
Then Honours will end up like cherished number plates. A form of idiot tax.
9. Blackout perhaps because Levy has been landed in the poop. Got all the hall marks of fall guy about him IMHO.
6. Scotland Yard: “Meeting kept confidential for operational reasons. Blair cooperated fully..”
14 - ie they didn’t want Levy to know they’d been speaking to Blair when they spoke to him on Tuesday? (But presumably Tony could have had a quiet word in his ear even if the public didn’t know anything)
15. to do that in itself could be attempting to pervert the course of justice!
11. Au contraire Mark, unlike you, we are sitting back and thoroughly enjoying the show.
This just gets more and more delicious, er, sorry, I mean serious.
If revenge is a dish best served cold then this gloriously prolonged humiliation of Blair and New Labour is like swimming in a lagoon of mango sorbet.
————————————————
“The interview took place in 10 Downing Street last Friday, almost a week ago.
Sky’s Political Editor Adam Boulton said rumours about it had been denied by the Prime Minister’s spokesman.
“The fact is that the public have been misled via briefings to the press on criminal matters going to the top of government,” he said.
———————————————————-
Looks really bad.
Sean T
“This just gets more and more delicious, er, sorry, I mean serious.”
Heh.
I’ve just noted on my blog how in the Scooter Libby trial it was a grand jury who decided whether a crime was committed by Dick Cheney’s chief of staff, rather than the C.P.S., as here.
Would a grand jury here be more willing to proceed with charges than the C.P.S.?
Yates is gambling big, asking for a News blackout for a week.
The journalists won`t like that.
Well they will if he gets a result.If he doesn`t the media will be asking him some questions.
Either way he is shafting this present administration.
High stakes indeed.
Bollox.
On my blog.
After Friday’s interview he flew to Davos…
So THAT’S why he looked so amazingly weird in that interview on the Politics Show
Love to see it again to see what he said on cash for honours!
~ 19 ~ if the police ask for a blackout what are they supposed to do either:
a) do what they say - and get accused of misleading the public
b) Don’t do what they say and actively go against the police
Now personally if the police asked me to do something i would comply, unless teh tories on here are suggesting that people should do the opposite???
11.”8 but it will set off all the Conservative people moaning about cover ups” Mark, your comments are disingenuous in light of the Libdems politicians running around media outlets comparing this to a previous political scandal.
Crikey. Lots of speculation. Interesting. People must be wondering why was there a need for a news black out.
24. I posted a link at the end of the last thread to Mike’s article about that interview, I think it contains a link to the programme.
I wonder if this news explains Nick Palmer’s extraordinary bad-tempered outburst on the previous thread?
29 - and your purpose on this site is what may i ask?
26. To be fair to Mark, he has been ‘off message’ on this issue vis-a-vis his Lib Dem colleagues for a while. The interesting question is, why? Could it be that he is smart enough to realise that the wholesale collapse of public trust in Labour will sweep away many Lib Dem MPs at the next GE as well as Labour ones?
Just how supine have Labour MP’s become?
In what previous generation of Parliament would an already deeply unpopular Prime Minister in such a damaging predicament be tolerated?
Countless Labour MP’s will face electoral oblivion at the next election -however long they put it off for- after careers in Westminster in which they have the shame to completely ignore they and their party principles in supporting -amongst other things- the invasion of a soverign nation, not once but twice, top-up fees, school and hospital privatisations, back-door school selection, and countless other proposals which they know they oppose but have gone along with because the whips told them to.
A senior Labour backbencher has gone on record today as saying he is ashamed of being a Labour MP.
Now we find that their leader is repeatedly interviewed by police investigating serious charges including conspiricy to pervert the course of justice and what have the Labour Mp’s done about it?
Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
How do these people live with themselves?
29. Nick Palmer is a good guy.
How can PM official spokesman mislead the lobby if he hadn’t been told about Blair being questioned. Me thinks Boulton and Robinson are too full of self importance.
It’s getting difficult to see how the police can emerge from this without pressing actual charges. A year’s investigation, arrests of top Downing Street aides, the PM questioned twice - surely after all this they can’t just drop it and say Whoops, Sorry, Fuss About Nothing, No Evidence.
They must really think they are onto something. I am becoming convinced they will charge at least Levy, and probably Powell and Turner… and, God knows, Blair as well?
Where’s Roger when you need him, to reassure us it will all blow over? Welease Woger! Welease Woger!
25 You don’t lie to the Lobby, you just refuse to comment. There’s a difference between spreading the news and lying.
odds on 29 and 32 being the same person? This is a betting site afterall
Never mind about Roger, where’s the Professor?
17 I enjoy this show just as little as I did the incessant corruption stories that continued throughout the last Conservative government .
They weren’t told, they were kept out of the loop specifically to aviod this problem, but what else could they have done, really, ignore the police and tell people anyway and get done for perversion…..
34. Because you can be deliberately misleading or inadvertently misleading.
31 The wholesale collapse in public trust in Labour following on the collapse in public trust of Conservatives in their last spell in government would I think assist in electing more LibDem MP’s but damages the standing of this country both home and abroad which is why I can derive no pleasure from it .
35. There’s no chance of Blair being charged - he hasn’t even been interviewed under caution thus far.
My own hunch is that if there are no charges within the next fortnight then it will all peter out.
43. At least one MP (Llwyd) has said he is “certain” there will be charges soon…
37. Red Flag. Are you really, truly proud of your party this morning?
If you were a Labour MP would you have just sat there for the last ten years and gone along with it all?
It’s a shameful end to a dishonest administration. From day 1 Tony Blair was about as Left of centre as Norman Tebbit. It’s Labour MP’s fault they and the party are facing meltdown because they went along with ‘the project’ in a lame and desperate grab for power at any price.
45. So the quicker Blair goes and Brown revives “Real” Labour in full tooth-and-claw the better, eh?
44. Yes, but charges against whom Rod.
I think Scooter Levy is actually going to be charged with perverting the course of justice, and that will be the end of Blair.
looks like Levy and Turner to me. If they are going down, who’s to say they don’t “bubble-up” Tone too?
The puzzle for me is how 2 or more police can enter a building without trace, a building which houses, at a guess, less than 100 people?
The Press Office probably has 5 or more staff and none of them observed/became aware of the fact in the past 6 days, that police had come and gone?
Not in my view believable that good PR folk, who keep their ears to the ground and know everything going on, could be in the dark for so long.
Unless the meeting was off site.
I think there will be charges Levy as a minimum, and if Levy is charged with the offence he was recently arrested over then other people will be charged also. He was arrested on suspicion of ‘conspiracy to pervert the course of justice’, conspiracy can not be conducted alone. So who are Levy’s co-conspirators, Turner? Powell? Blair? This is probably the most interesting and amusing scandal in decades. I just can’t wait for the next arrest/interview/juicy bit of news!
45 I don’t know why some people believe Tony Blair to be right wing. Being rich, upper middle class, and well-spoken does not make one a right winger.
50. No. 10 is crawling with police, etc every day, and there is a back door….
47, 48. What a shocking state of affairs that we should even be discussing this - the charging of top PM aides, the disgrace of the prime minister, the expense of spirit in a waste of shame. All this from the government that promised to be “whiter than white”. Or was it “purer than pure”? I forget.
Allied with the disaster of Iraq this government will possibly go down as the most immoral in modern British political history. Quite an achievement.
As Mark says, it is an enjoyable spectacle from a partisan point of view, but Labour’s squalid lies and maneuverings are also doing untold damage to politics in general.
50. Anyone who thinks that there is any chance of Blair being charged is in Cuckoo-land. He has not been questioned as anything other than a witness.
46. The post at 45. is clearly a self-interested one…but there must be a real risk that a lurch to the left will indeed happen if this saga does end in prosecutions and a massive scandal. McDonnell & co. have already been making noises that suggest they will be keen to portray themselves as the ’saviours’ of ‘real’ Labour etc….
Re 32 and Labour MPs. The irony is that both Lib Dems and Conservatives have everything to gain the longer Blair remains.
For Labour their prospects get worse making it more likely that they will suffer close to 1,000 councillor losses in May rather than a few hundred.
Most Labour MPs seem to have decided to just keep their heads down and hibernate until Blair goes. Certainly an act of cowardice.
The real pressure inside Labour could come from Scotland and the prospect of losing power in the Assembly.
The nub of the investigation appears to be records of a meeting in Downing Street where honours were discussed…
56. An interesting point HF. The focus has been on Westminster - but what if Jack McConnell or senior Scots Labour figures began to call on him to go.
Could Blair hang on?
This latest development does not make punting on the Blair Switch market any easier.
You could argue that it increases pressure on TB and therefore encourages buying of the earlier dates. Or you might think ‘…no caution, no charges’ and conclude that the later dates become more likely.
I wouldn’t like to say which way it should be read, for betting purposes. It seems I am not alone. There is no clear trend except that the distance between back and lay prices on Qs 2 & 3 has extended. This is generally a sign of lack of liquidity. Normally that indicates a lack of cash but here I think it shows that punters just don’t know what to make of it and are not prepared to bet - not in significant sums anyway.
56 Increasingly, I suspect we’re heading for Labour’s equivalent of May 1995.
George Osborne: “A serious matter when a sitting PM is interviewed twice by police”
53,
The damage of giving honours has been done for centuries.
Don`t be so devoutly pious.
Indepent journo on Sky News right now “They completely misled us”
The press backlash is going to be HUGE tomorrow
Again - any odds on Labour to poll at 25% over the next few months?
Sean Fear @ 45 “I don’t know why some people believe Tony Blair to be right wing. Being rich, upper middle class, and well-spoken does not make one a right winger”
No but running a Government that has tried to privatise health and education, re-introduced selective education, reduced social mobility by for instance introducing top-up fees, and is even now trying to starve single mothers back to work does.
And that is ignoring the most oppressive law and order regime since the wartime Government.
55 Wilf - “McDonnell & co. have already been making noises that suggest they will be keen to portray themselves as the ’saviours’ of ‘real’ Labour etc….”
Yes, I reckon they would rescue it in much the same way that the iceberg did for the Titanic.
Re 54, Chrisco, he may have only been questioned as a witness so far but that is no guarantee that he will not be charged. Not by a long chalk.
I am prepared to bet money that Blair will not be charged, if you are willing to take it Benedict?
Does anyone know how long the Blair interview with the Police actually lasted? A quick 2 minute job is obviously less serious than a 60 minute one. (45 minutes would be a rather appropriate time now, wouldn’t it)
69. 45 minutes we are told…
69 - from what I’ve read it did last 45 minutes!
Re 68, Chrisco I was not saying he would be charged, but that there is no certainty that he would not be charged.
That said I can put a tenner on it if you like
Oh my word …. I doze off for a few hours, having taken a Boots load of drugs to find that :
1. seanT has been arrested for perverting the course of a decent Labour Party.
2. Benedict has asked for a news blackout on his blog
3. Sean Fear was interviewed under caution by Mike Smithson last Friday about the “Lolly for Local Election Slot” on PB.
4. Adam Boulton has demanded that the Downing Street front door copper be moved to the back door.
Source : JNN SOD. (Jacobite News Network, Spaced Out Division)
Good Nite all ….Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Will Nick Palmer MP representing an English seat with a small(ish) commons majority being calling for Blair to go sooner rather than later?
I would like to hear his thought’s on that one?
However, I would understand if he want’s to be chicken about it!
He ain’t going to loose anything as Blair has been Politically beheaded in the last week - we are just waiting for his head to fall off!
7/ Red Flag - Maybe the MI5/6 offices think he has been acting outside the UK’s interests (i.e. for the US) and want him to go because he is distablising the country i.e. Birmingham, 7/7 etc???!!!
63,
who?
39
Any ideas when the Lib Dems are going to return the £ 2.5 million (of other peoples money) that was given to them by their jailed donor?
I think the victims of your donor want their money back now,so why the long delay in returning their money?
43 Chrisco Are you standing in for Roger today?
70 - Ah, 45 minutes….now where have we heard that before?
49 HF Easy.
“Nick Palmer is a good guy.” Commentator (33) - dont get carried away he is a Labour MP after all - but he is a PBer (How many posts, Mike?) - So we should defend him to the death (well to the last bottle of Jack’s scotch).
73; jack, triple
welcome back campaign maestro!
66. Peter - I agree. But that doesn’t necessarily mean they won’t get the chance. Political parties do strange things when in a crisis…remember Foot,IDS….
Here are few thoughts I’ve had in my non-punting mode.
If I were TB, I would be getting mightily p****d off by now with the constant distraction of the investigation. I would be about on the point where I would want to say to the investigators, put up or shut up.
As a voter/taxpayer, I’m starting to feel the same way. Government is a serious business. This inquiry is about cash and ermine - not imo the most important of matters. Nobody has (yet) suggested that anybody lined their own pocket in return for favours. The more serious charge is perverting the course of justice (the cover up) and if anybody has been stupid enough to do that, they deserve what they get. Do I however want the whole business of Government snarled up by such matters?
Certainly the police have a duty to uphold the laws and investigate these matters wherever they lead. Keep it in proportion though. It is widely accepted that similar practices (c.f.h. not cover-ups) have gone on for ages and the root cause of the problem is the inability to find and implement a good system for party funding. Is this truly something on which you want to see the Government strung up, assuming of course you are not somebody who wants it strung up on any grounds?
I have this sneaking feeling that if this persists much longer, Blair may find himself in the position where he can turn on his pursuers and confront them successfully.
I’m not sure. It depends on what Yates has. Don’t rule it out though.
I think they did Blair a favour actually having a news blackout, he would have been well and truely knackered at PMQ’s if he had been interviwed on friday & then Lord Levy. No doubt about it, think Tony had better go pretty soon!
“Political parties do strange things when in a crisis…remember IDS”
82 - Wilf - I dare you to post that on ConHome.
On the Blair police interview why doessn’t he just explain to the police that he is a ‘ pretty straight kind of guy’ thus ending the contoversy once and for all.
82 Oh, I remember Wilf…I definitely remember!
Angus MacNeil MP: “Lord Levy must be questioning the wisdom of his friendship with Tony Blair; perhaps he could take some advice from Gordon Brown on that issue…” LOL, this boy should go far…
PtP Are you saying the powerful should not be tied up by these processes like the rest of us?
All citizens should be treated alike. Think on this poor soul.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/01/nchip101.xml
77. No, simply because the investigation now seems to be focusing on conspiracy to pervert the course of justice.
Evidence of conspiracy will require notes, emails, conversations etc. Blair has people to do that sort of thing for him, and is too smart to tell people to destroy evidence.
If anyone is charged it will be the underlings.
peter the punter,
What are you saying? That people in govt are above the law? That having campaigned on being whiter than white they rule with a shit coloured cloth?
Just think what Labour MP’s rightly said about Akin & Archer - In the lattors case they were talking rightly about removing his peerage.
It does not matter which party or politician if they are operating in a way that is seen to be less than proper then it should be investigated. I did not hear much Labour party moaning about pinnoche etc………. Think about.
Nobody should be above the Law and white collar crime is still a punishable offence.
90 Titanic - “What are you saying? That people in govt are above the law?”
Did I say that? Please return to the post and read again.
The Lib dems are as bad with that Brown bloke!
The whole political system needs bleeching!!!
83. Blair is a master at tactically raising the stakes but I think he has already done so in this situation when he allowed the Yard to be criticised for being ‘heavy handed’ last year.
He left the Police no easy way out when he did that; so if the enquiry turns ugly he has to take responsibility for that himself.
I never under-estimate the Mets ability to shoot itself in the foot or over-estimate Blairs astonishing survival abilities but this time I think he has played it badly and the Police have played it about right.
There will be serious charges against senior figures, the Police are ensuring they get a conviction out of it.
Aha i see, i stand corrected! Still think that the police investigation should be left to run it’s course. (No offence intended!)
88 Witan - “PtP Are you saying the powerful should not be tied up by these processes like the rest of us?”
No.
Again, please read the post. If you still think that’s what I wrote, let me know and I’ll try to help you.
Think a number of us our guilty of reading the first few lines, skimming the middle and looking at the bottom! again sorry ptp!
I get the sense that this case is drawing to a close and there will be no charges.
That the police are just going through the motions now, hence no interview under caution, hence news blackout (at the request of Blair?) hence only an hour interview.
Blair probably knew there would be bigger news this week like the terror suspect raids.
How can the police say they asked Blair to be quiet because they don’t want Levy to know. Didn’t they think Blair would be straight on the phone. Four days later they get round to arresting Levy. See any plot flaws in the police account?
94 Thank you, Titanic.
I agree; the Inspector should be allowed to finish his inquiries. All I was trying to suggest was that we could be getting to the point where TB may just be able and willing to turn on his pursuers. It may be a question of mood swing. We just don’t know, not least because we don’t know all the facts.
It could happen though. That’s all I’m trying to say. Sorry if that wasn’t clear enough to everybody.
97. Roger, you’re back!
96 No apologies necessary, Titanic. It’s all part of the rough-and-tumble of the site that makes it such a pleasure.
They might not get Tony but they could well get one of his cronies.
Talk about sleaze - this high level of alleged inproppriay has not been seen since the Liberals were last in power!
ITV pointing out Ruth arrested on suspicion of perversion to…. (not with others)
Levy arrested on conspiracy which has to be with others.
FWIW My guess is there are 2 separate lines of enquiry being pursued by the police.
1. Computer documents that have been deleted which involves Blair’s gatekeeper Ruth.
2. Allegations of conspiracy between Levy and the Sir Christopher Evans over Ks and Ps dialogue.
98 - Can’t see it Peter. If Blair was to turn on the police I really can’t see the voting public siding with him. I think it would probably end up doing more harm than good.
O/T - Do we have any interesting local by-elections today?
Sean T, I would like nothing more than to see Blair get what he deserves, even if that involves a war crimes tribunal and the same fate as Saddam.
97. There is no need to interview under caution if the Prime Minister is only being interviewed as a witness.
The news blackout was at the request of the Met, who clearly wanted news of their interview with Blair to remain a secret until they re-arrested and interviewed Scooter Levy.
If Blair did get straight on the phone to Levy about the interview, unless I am mistaken then that would be attempting to pervert the course of justice; the Yard has confirmed that they requested the silence.
Think you are right HF - It all makes splendid viewing!!!!
New Statesman’s Martin Bright: “potentially the greatest scandal a government has faced in a century…”
104. Tut, tut Mystic Moon.
Where is our fav. local MP today?
103 Depends how it’s done, Max, and also of course what the core facts are.
TB has kept his own counsel, so far, and rightly so. He could, if he felt strong enough, speak privately to Yates and express his concern at the damage the investigation is doing to the country by impeding the Government’s work. If not satisfied with the Inspector’s response, he could then ‘go public’.
Might work. Might not. I’m just speculating. (That is still lawful on pb.com, isn’t it?)
Nick, Nick, wherever you are?
83
‘I have this sneaking feeling that if this persists much longer, Blair may find himself in the position where he can turn on his pursuers and confront them successfully’
I would have thought that the most likely scenario is that TB orders a closure to the investigation on the grounds of national security; as this has been a tried and tested route with the recent government closure of the Saudi corruption investigation.
105,
Yes but he has every right to speak to Levy about the middle east, alone.
109 Keeping his head down, if he’s any sense! LOL!
112 Yes, hilarious John, but I was actually trying to be serious for a change. Perhaps I shouldn’t bother.
113. the Middle East IS already a perversion of the course of justice, which has gone on unchecked for 60 years…
800 more UK troops for Afghanistan….
Mystic Moon. In many ways a statement from Police saying ‘we cannot find sufficient evidence to bring this matter to court’ would be worse for TB than a couple of people in No 10 actually being charged.
Now that they have been investigating perverting the course of justice the impression would be left for all time that there *was* a cover up and it had succeeded.
But as I said earlier I just don’t believe that Yates superiors or the CPS would have allowed a second round of interviews/arrests unless they were 100% certain they had enough to bring some serious charges against someone.
The issue is all about getting a conviction now. The police will worry about the case collapsing and then a backlash so they will be being extra vigilant imo.
Interesting to note that SKY is running with the fact that news of the interview was kept a secret, while the BBC slant is more on the fact that the interview took place.
PtP it still reads to me as if you are saying that if it causes too much hassle for the governmnet it should stop:
“Government is a serious business. This inquiry is about cash and ermine - not imo the most important of matters……. Do I however want the whole business of Government snarled up by such matters?”
And your answer seems to be, at least rhetorically , “no” when you say,”Is this truly something on which you want to see the Government strung up.”
My apologies if I have misunderstood you but if so might it be you post rather than my reading of it?
42. Mark, I agree with your sentiments regarding this enquiry, but I don’t think you can single out the conservative poster’s on here for criticism. I think that this is the type scenario where even the most tribal of posters might not find any enjoyment in the current developments.
110. PtP - I’m afraid you may be showing your partisan colours just a tiny bit now. Police need to ‘put up or shut up’, ‘Blair may turn on his pursuers’, ‘damage to the national interest’…all stock phrases used by Labour apologists in recent weeks.
110,
Peter there is bound to be pent up anger that they can`t put their side of the equation.
While the Snp take free shots without reply.
But as you say that will come one day.
However maybe too late as the damage caused, even if no charges are ever brought would not be reversable.
Nevertheless if it went to a court case , the defence lawyers would have a field day, with unfair predudicial speculation and comment.
120 Witan
Well, at least you took the trouble to read it. Would it help if I said that there comes a point where people (and not just the Government and its supporters) might begin to think that the whole thing is getting out of proportion and taking up too much time and money?
It’s the way I always felt about the ‘foxhunting debate’. I’m starting to feel that way about ‘cash for ermine’.
Re 101, Titanic,
Re 102, HF, Yes I had noted the conpsiracy allegation when it was raised and renoted it today when Nick Robinson pointed out it takes two!
To be fair to the No 10 spokesman, a civil servant, he may not have been told that TB saw the police a second time. Obvviously that would mean that TB was happy that he should give misleading replies if the question came up and that he didn’t ask for his press spokesman to put the lobby right afterwards. I think, as usual, the lobby are being a bit self important about this issue. At the end of the day if the police asked for radio silence I don’t think one can blame No 10 ( on this one occasion!).
122 As indicated earlier, Textual, I was speculating rather than arguing a case. It would be daft to argue one when not in full possession of the facts, although that doesn’t stop some people.
As for my partisan colors, I’m a fully paid up member of The Punting Party. You should know that by now.
124
‘Would it help if I said that there comes a point where people (and not just the Government and its supporters) might begin to think that the whole thing is getting out of proportion and taking up too much time and money?’
You could use that rationale about any criminal investiagtion.
Are you really saying that if an investiagtion goes on for more than say 12 months it should be stopped on the basis of it getting out of proportion,taking too much time and money!?
so Levy was arrested as a result of what Blair told them - interesting.
Also the front page of today’s Indy is deeply shameful and entirely to do with this government’s complete and utter obsession with targets opposed to delivery.
Ptp no, I wouldn’t say that because i believe that our leaders need to be scrutinised more than the man or woman in the street because they are in such sensitive and powerful positions.
During Watergate the Republican press would often complain about the cost in terms of money and government time the investigation was taking and suggest it was not worth it. As all became clearer that line was dropped of course. Archer’s friends, if I recall, did the same thing.
Be assured I always read your posts and inwardly digest them as I do those from all serious posters. I always start at the top of the thread. Sometimes though I fall off my perch before I get to the latest ones.
129 John
In a finite world with finite time and resources, people in all walks of life have to make decisions about how much time and trouble to devote to anything. All I am saying is that some people might just be getting to the point where they feel this particular issue is getting out of proportion.
If that view becomes widespread, Blair has the opportunity to turn on his pursuers. It may not happen, especially if the pursuers have damning evidence which is not yet in the public domain. If they have no such evidence, there may come a turning point at which the mood, in Westminster and elsewhere, changes to his advantage.
For the avoidance of doubt, I repeat that I am speculating here and in the absence of the full facts. I do not however think it is idle speculation. It could happen that way.
I’ll speculate further, briefly. Maybe DC is conscious of the possibility of such a mood change and maybe is not pushing too hard as a consequence.
Maybe.
From Nick Robinson
“The BBC has learned that Lord Levy - Labour’s chief fund-raiser - was asked by police about notes of meetings at which he’s believed to have discussed honours with senior staff at Downing St. The notes of meetings, which the BBC understands were obtained by police from within No 10, were put to Lord Levy on Tuesday for the first time.
Lord Levy’s refused to comment after his arrest on Tuesday but, he’s always protested his innocence telling friends that “only one person can nominate people for honours and it isn’t me”. I think we know what - and who - he’s referring to. ”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/nickrobinson/
This is the BBC saying that the police have hard evidence to back up the allegations of conspiracy and the evidence destruction.
103 Only one byelection listed by ALDC today - in Tewkesbury - a Resident held seat
RE 127, Blue moon, I agree, even if the PMOS did know, (which I doubt he did) then what was he supposed to do?
Won’t stop the press trying to rip him a new *cough* hole tomorrow though.
If nothing is found, then those who oppose the government will cry ‘whitewash’ so its far better that someone gets done for something! Lord Levy as I understand it was arrested, (not charged) on something called ‘On suspicion of conspiracy to pervert the cause of justice’ I would like to know, (perhaps someone does) how many people, have actually been arrested on that before, how many have been charged, how many have been successfully prosecuted, and what their punishment was: not many I’ll bet. I think it’s true to say,( some legal person out there could possibly confirm) conspiracy of any type is very difficult to prove, evidence to proceed would have to be overwhelming. Nobody is going to risk another Jeremy Thorpe!
131 Witan - Thanks for your kind and sensible comments.
We now know beyond any doubt that the Republican press and Archer’s friends were wrong. I expect we will in due course learn who is right over ‘cash for ermine’, although the answers may turn out to be equivocal.
Meanwhile, a man may speculate…and I am speculating that we may be close to a mood change. If this turns out not to be the case, I will have no difficulty in acknowledging it. Until we know better, all I ask is that people acknowledge it is as a possibility.
Re 130, ChrisA, I find it interesting that illegal immigrants who are on bail, failed assylum seekers or what ever are released on bail by the police if caught. They could meet their targts by being efficient rather than brutal.
See:
http://aconservatives.blogspot.com/2006/10/scandal-of-illegal-immigration.html
137,
Peter there will be a mood change in parts the media , if they don`t get there man.
The Police as of today by putting a news blackout on , will come under as much srutiny as the people involved.
BBC reporting that the Charity Commission is to formally investigate complaints received about the Smith Institute.
I have to wonder about the timing of this announcement?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6321139.stm
Jon Cruddas stepping up his campaign?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6318979.stm
133.
Think you are putting words in the BBC mouth there.
Hope you are not a lawyer, think you might have to retract.
137. Peter the P, you are usually a sensible person, what’s all this unutterable guff about ‘mood change’? Derr?
The thing you forget is that a lot of people loathe Blair - mainly cause of Iraq, but some for other reasons. And they loathe him across the board - left, middle, and right.
Of course Thatcher was loathed at the end, too - but there were also many people who loved and admired her, throughout. She always had and has a large and influential phalanx of defenders.
Blair doesn’t have that. No one loves or admires Blair. He’s seen even by his chums and his lickspittle backbench acolytes as a bit of a smoothie, the rest of us have nastier epithets. Labour MPs, being a craven and careerist bunch, support Blair because he wins elections. That’s it. And now that’s over.
So where’s this deep mood change gonna come from? There aren’t any wellsprings of sympathy from which Blair can draw.
Even if he gets out of cash for peerages, he will leave office as a disgraced and shameful figure, with Iraq tattooed across his forehead.
139 Not sure about this news blackout, Dez. My knee-jerk reaction is that the Press has a pretty high opinion of itself if it thinks its requirements should prevail over a lawful and reasonable police request.
But then I have a pretty jaundiced opinion of our Press.
Now excuse me, I have to nip over to Wincanton, where I am hoping for a big run from Flying Enterprise.
139. 141. Relentless astr*turfing today…
Re 141, Dez, I think he was quoting from Nick Robinson’s blog.
145,
Benedict the last paragraph wasn`t.
Can I just be honest, and cut the cr@p about this ‘damaging the British political system’ blah blah…
I hope this investigation drags on for months and months, if not years. It’s the most fun I’ve had in ages. And I’ve just come back from Bangkok.
If anyone in this government or any one associated with it has been up to no good, then they should be, arrested, charged, prosecuted and taken to court. But some of the interpertations being put on the slightest evidence is absurd, who ever you are, you are innocent until proven guilty. As I pointed out earlier when Lord Levy was arrested why was the word suspicion inserted, why not, ‘conspiracy to pervert the cause of justice’? if suspicion was inserted, that implies only slight or no evidence. As for the notes, if you were up to no good, I don’t think I’d be taking to many notes. Perhaps some of you have led very sheltered lives, (don’t ask) but you never, never leave a paper trail.
142 - Sean T - Not sure I care for the ’sensible’ bit but I’ll let it pass.
For the nth time, I repeat that I am speculating, not predicting.
As for ‘the love of Tone’, I think you are wrong. There are people who cherish him. My ex-wife is one. (No, that’s not why I got rid of her; there are worse crimes.) If he can regain their sympathy, he could be up and running again.
Finally, couldn’t agree more about Iraq. If the worst suspicions about cash-for-ermine turn out to be true, it still wouldn’t amount to a bag of beans by comparison.
Now…back to Wincanton.
142Seant,
Before the news broke, on the last one I said.
Michael White in todays Guardian says one of Blairs top labour enemies said “Even I`m queasy about the police treament of Tony”
I wondered why the sympathy, and who it was.
Might be more clear today maybe they knew.
Re 146, Dez, fair enough.
150. It could be John McDonnell seeking the Anyone But Gordon Vote from the Blairites?!
152. HenryG, Michael Meacher would be more likely
And to think you have the SNP and Plaid to thank for this.
Perhaps the gleeful Tories here could explain why they are such a woeful, clumsy opposition
149. Fair nuff. I’ve never met anyone that still LIKES Blair, let alone CHERISHES him. And contrary to rumours, I don’t spend my entire time in the Groucho Club or Bangkok go-go bars. Well not much time anyway. I do meet lots of different people and at best, re Tony Blair, they seem to ‘tolerate’ him in a weary way - “nice family man, shame about the wife, guess they all like money” etc etc.
That’s about the best I’ve heard for Tony - weary tolerance, a nostalgic fondness for his charm mixed with regret at his foibles. Nothing like the fiercely loyal love - not too strong a word - that Maggie inspired. And of course tons of people LOATHE Blair.
But maybe I don’t meet enough people like your ex-wife.
152. Henry, it’s certainly not McD as he called for the NEC to appoint an independent person to supervise the submission of information to the police to ensure that there is the fullest co-operation and the fullest disclosure of information (”This takes the matter out of the hands of the prime minister and any of his staff.”)
Blair is a lawyer. This fact can get a bit lost in the shuffle.
If he knew that Levy had flogged honours, perhaps strayed outside his brief, he would have had no choice but to grass him up. Blair knows the law.
152. I know, it was tongue in cheek. McDonnell’s line on this is a bit odd don’t you think? What suggests that the NEC will have a better chance of extracting evidence from No 10 than the police? Considering the ignorance of the NEC over the origins of this whole fiasco, I don’t think it’s high.
155 Sean T - PMSL!
I must introduce you one day! Actually, I must put the record straight. She got rid of me. Had an sudden attack of common-sense.
My own view of TB might surprise you; basically it’s ‘good PM, shame about Iraq.’ You can express your disdain personally when we meet for the book signing. (You do remember, don’t you?) I’m in St James’s next week. Would you have a spare moment? My email address if you want to fix up a time is arklebar@talktalk.net
Cheers
158. Good point.
Btw, Lynne Jones has said that the Libdems have tried to make her defect to them, but she said that “espite efforts to woo me away, I still feel that the Labour Party is the only party that can achieve the fairer and more equal society that I long for.”
158. HenryG - I refer you to my post at 55. The left are positioning themselves to deal Blairism the death blow….
160 She said that? And nobody threw up?
…and inherit the scorched remnants of the Labour Party
155. Whatever you think about Blair and the war, the fact that he was willing to risk everything over his belief in righteousness of getting rid of Saddam is nothing short of amazing. He took a mamouth risk and lost. If he had opposed Iraq (as an opportunist might have done) he would be unassailable now.You have to admire his guts over that decision.
SeanT and about five billion others reckon he lied over Iraq but to what end? look at the mess he is in now. Is he really so stupid to have not predicted that lies would have been uncovered?
Having said that, 10 years is enough for any politician and on balance it’s a good thing he’s going.
162. PtP. http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/birminghampost/news/tm_method=full%26objectid=18561036%26siteid=50002-name_page.html
165 Thanks Andrea - not the pompous or hackneyed stuff I had assumed. In fact, it’s a bad sign when a Party starts losing people like that.
164. No. We have to remember why Blair took us to war - WMD, not regime change.
On WMD he told fibs, to himself and to the rest of us. He surely convinced himself that the lies were justified in the larger scheme, but history has not been kind to him.
What Blair should’ve done is been honest. He should have said “the evidence for WMD is shaky, but I believe it is still good enough to justify war”. On that basis he would have not carried the Commons and we wouldn’t have joined the Americans in the war, but he would still have kept his credibility, and the special relationship would have survived. Moreover we would have avoided this catastrophic war.
The second issue is the sheer incompetence in going to war in Iraq. Looking back now, it seems blatantly obvious that invading an Arab country riven with sectarian conflict and envenomed by years of tyranny was bound to end in a clusterf**k.
Imagine if the positions were reversed. Imagine if the UK was invaded by a Muslim army, bombing and shooting their way up the country from Dover. Imagine this Muslim army was intent on throwing out our government, admittedly a beastly one, and replacing it with a ‘better’ one of their devising. We’d sullenly accept the need for regime change, maybe, but within weeks we’d be attacking the Muslim invaders. And that’s ignoring the sectarian divide within Iraq, which was ready to kick off at any moment. Iraq was, I say again, simply bound to be a disaster.
You can say this is 20/20 hindsight, and sure it is. I didn’t think this through at the time, looking back I now realise how stupid I was. But I’m not paid to get these things right, I’m not a supposed world statesman like Blair, I’m a little known Cornish novelist. Blair is however meant to get these things right, and he got them terrible terribly wrong. And he lied as well. And half a million people are dead.
It’s a pretty grim legacy. The worst of any UK Prime Minister in modern history, perhaps.