So what do we think of that then?
June 27th, 2007
How will it be different next Wednesday?
Blair’s final PMQs, as some have observed, was very strange and you almost thought that the occasion would bring tears to his eyes. Yet what a star he has been and how formidable an opponent he has been for the five Tory leaders and three Lib Dems one who have faced him each week. None of them, even Hague at his best, has every really been his match.
It’s Tony huge emotional intelligence and the ability to think on his feet that mark him out as a master of the art of this weekly parliamentary occasion.
One things for certain - it’s all going to be different next week and that first clash between Brown and Cameron is something I’ve been looking forward to for a year and a half.
Next Wednesday will get massive coverage and my guess is that Cameron, who also has a high emotional intelligence, will follow the strategy he followed today, recognise the occasion it is and not let PM Brown get into attack him. That will come later.
What a great time to be observing politics?
Mike Smithson
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Cameron has nothing to say anyway… No brainer.
I thought it reflected huge credit on the whole Commons - Blair was brilliant and Cameron was generous. His tribute and Blair’s to him were moving and watching DC wave Tory MPs to their feet was great - big-hearted, generous of spirit.
Quentin Who?
2 It looked like Cameron was waving his party to cross the floor. Is Cameron about to defect?
It’s raining as Brown takes office - symbolic….
Today, I genuinely envied Nick Palmer his position as an MP.
5 etc… You’ve all gone soft.
6. We are a big-hearted party, full of optimists, and we like other people.
That’s why David Cameron will be PM after the next election.
Very clever move by Cameron to deny the PM the opportunity to go out with a major attack on the Tories. Nothing from that exchange worthy of evening news, and instead of Blair humiliating Cameron on news screens across the globe, Cameron comes over as the nice guy.
Bloody boring to watch though, and something of a disappointment!
Thank you, Test! Yes, a good occasion all round. I’m glad TB finished up with a mention of the noble causes that most of us on all sides - in our different ways - see at the heart of politics.
4. well we have floods, death and war - just need a bit of plague and the 4 horsemen will be here to welcome GB in
7 Tories linke people. Tell that to Quentin Davies! He’s been villified here over the past 24 hrs.
Even if Cameron had gone on the attack, Blair would not have responded. I still think he could have made a political point summing up the past ten years from a Tory perspective and wrapped it in silk. Oh well.
Blair and Cameron were both excellent today. Blair demonstrated his mastery and left on a high note. Cameron will appear on tonight’s news as a thoroughly decent and generous bloke waving his MPs to their feet for a standing ovation for their old enemy. That simple gesture will have more cut-through with the voters than all of Brown’s tortuous and cynical attempts to appear non-partisan (Ashdown, Stevens, Davies, etc).
At the end of the day, Blair and Cameron are well-balanced human beings - and Brown ain’t.
Funnily enough, the best speech was by the Rev Ian Paisley: thanking Blair for all his efforts in the Northern Ireland peace process, and wishing him good luck in the Middle East. I share those feelings, but I have to say, he’s going to need it!
Nice question from the MP who made reference to ‘The Terminator’ as well.
It’s funny how Tories here really are hostile to Brown. Reminds me of the old Demon eyes days. How times change. Tory fear is an ugly thing.
12. Yep.
Nick were you in the Chamber. It seemed very moving on TV. Really, wonderful.
Dear Jonathan, do you spend your life attacking Tories?
Their Govt ended 10 years ago.
14. Labour stirring is also ugly…. was a good occasion in teh commons. Now let the games begin
Jeez, listen to you, bunch of puppies having their tummies tickled. I did NOT watch PMQs cause I am in Bangkok and I was having my siesta before my happy finish massage this evening.
We all know Blair is a gifted politician with an easy charm, but he is also the man who lied to take us into a catastrophic war, which has killed hundreds of thousands of people; we all know Blair is good on telly and tells a decent joke, but he is also the man who has broken his solemn promise over the EU referendum, a man who wants to betray his own people because it suits him. But one shimmy on the political dancefloor and hearts are pounding!
This is exactly the same reaction we all had (Tories included) when Blair gave his last conference speech. ‘Oh, wow, isn’t he good, thank God he’s going, a man in his prime, what a guy’.
Yuk. Can any of us actually remember a single thing in that speech ten months later? Nope. Blair is all surface and nothing else. He has charisma but he is a moral void.
I think Hitler had the same effect on people - in person. Generals who were in despair of his policies, who hated the man, would be invited to Berchtesgaden and Hitler would fix them with his gaze and work his eerie charm and they would come out dazzled and in love, once again.
The key is not to go to Berchtesdagen. Hitler was a monster. Blair is a vacuous man with bad ideas.
Seeing the reaction without seeing the speech is very revealing.
16 HF for some of us it is a life long commmitment and duty
And we have invoked Godwin.
If Blair is assasinated in his new Middle East role, will he be made a saint by the Pope? Have Hills got a market up on this yet?
16 I just object to Tories here hailing their concensual Cameron on the one hand whilst calling Brown every name under the sun. I’m looking forward to PM Brown and am glad that the Blair years ended well. But after 10 years of one man it’s time for a change.
If Blair is assasinated in his new Middle East role, will he be made a saint by the Pope? Have Hills got a market up on this yet?
18. I remember. “At least I don’t have to worry she’s going to run off with the bloke next door.”
And “You’re the future now. Make the most of it.”
Most people who are devoted to politics remember great speeches and appreciate great performances even by the opposition
You really are a crashing bloody bore on Iraq Sean T, and it’s all the worse coming from a shabby little racist like yourself.
23. Also as an envoy does he have diplomatic immunity ? And if so does that cover cash for honours ?
24. ‘Test’ is definitely a reincarnation of ‘commentator’, the previous resident prig on PB.com.
I see Jonathan is fast becoming a creature of the night.
Cherie Blair tells media in Downing Street, “We won’t miss you.”
Buck House 27th June 2007 12.30pm ….. What if ???? …….
BLAIR. Your Majesty I understand Gordon has been detained in a locked toilet in Downing Street ….. you’d better send for Harriet Harman instead !!
HM QUEEN. One is relieved Tone. Fancy a peerage ??
I thought what was interesting was that Blair looked completely discomfited by Cameron’s performance. He stumbled over his response on floods and mumbled platitudes on the Middle East, only to recover his charm and poise in response to Cameron’s ‘best wishes’. You know that feeling when a few minutes later you come up with the witty one-liner, the perfect response, but at the time you just mumble “yeah”. That’s how Blair must have felt when he sat down; “Bugger, I had all those great lines to use and he made me forget them”.
Verdict:
Blair will come across well on TV - dignified pay-off praising the Commons (though you would have missed it if you had been watching the Daily Politics like me - Andrew Neil defection to ITV anyone?) plus standing ovation from all sides. But he would have been hoping for so much more… and barnstormer, indeed. This wasn’t a barnstormer, it was a conversation piece.
Cameron will only appear twice, both times in a good light - offering his best wishes to Blair and family (non-political, human and generous) - and urging his troops to join the Labour standing ovation. Cameron will be happy with that and ready to take Brown by surprise as well.
A lot of people, rightly, have warned the Tories not to underestimate Gordon Brown. Labour would be similarly stupid to misunderestimate Cameron. Bring it on, this could be fun.
24. *sigh* You are rightly embarrassed that I have pointed out the immaturity of your fawning - drooling over the same man you have been reviling just a few days earlier.
Get a grip, you Blair-fellating fool. I always know when the barb hits home when I get called a racist or a Nazi.
As for…
“You’re the future now. Make the most of it.”
That’s it? That’s the bit you remember? You actually bothered to remember it? It’s not exactly, er, the Gettysburg Address is it?
lol
A fair summary, I think, Baserkerville.
18. I agree with you regarding Iraq and the EU, but the guy still did a fantastic job in killing off British socialism, did great things continuing Major’s work in NI, and in establising military action in Sierra Leone, Kosovo and Afghanistan. Seeing that opposing politicians spend the vast majority of the time concentrating on each others negatives, we can at least give him credit for the good things hes done on the bloke’s last day.
25. We could have Blair and his chum Bill Clinton doing an interesting swapsie soon, with Blair running off to the States with his diplomatic immunity to escape prosecution in the UK while Clinton hides out in Oxford to avoid prosecution in the US. But at least no-one will be able to claim that the political class are in any way above the law in the way they are in places like Italy.
Blair could have an easy life now. He can’t be short of a few bob (and he could certainly make a few if he wanted with lectures, books etc)
However he has chosen to take on the Middle East role.
I think that this shows that he genuinely wants to do good in the world. How successful he we be we shall have to see.
I don’t agree with everything that he and his government have done and I’m not a Labour voter but I’m happy to wish him well and also to wish Gordon Brown well in his new role.
Well, despite SeanT’s splenetic outrage, (Perhaps that happy finish has been too long in coming, Sean?) I thought it was a rather enjoyable and moving occassion on all sides.
I thought Cameron showed class in asking meaningful questions and a strong personal tribute, and I think whatever else one says about him (and I have plenty) he showed he has good political pitch today.
Paisley was rather moving. Seeing the leader of “Ulster says no” paying tribute to a man who helped him go into in government with Sinn Fein showed haw for things have changed.
Come on Gordon!!
24.
“You’re the future now. Make the most of it.”
Oh oh, oh my God, oh oh, yes yes, yes, Oh yes, more, yes… just there, right there, OHmygod, YES. YEs YES YES YES, YES YES YES OHYES OHJESUS OH YES OH OH OH OWWWWWYESSSSSSILOVEYOU!!!!!!
Er, can I have a Kleenex?
No Test, you can’t.
38 Calm down. Blair is out of the palace. He’s history.
Britain now has no PM.
Prescott is acting PM for 15 minutes !! Oh Gawd …
35. Aside from those who are really prejudiced, I don’t think anyone can really deny that Blair is someone who has a genuine drive to do what he thinks is right. I do think though he’s often been mistaken what is right, and hes unfortunately he has somewhat of an “ends justfies the means” philosophy (regarding his conceited reasons for Iraq). His Christian evangelical streak also has meant hes rushed into things on overly simplified logic sometimes too.
38. That’s a rather conventional depiction of “the act” compared to Cheek Perforation Dance, I must say.
38. Ah, I see the happy finish you are paying for is no longer needed.
Perhaps you will be able to negotiate a discount?
38. Get a grip sean, you’re doing a disservice to yourself.
38,Careful Sean,or people really will think you’re a w***er!!:lol::lol:(P.S Despite our political differences I am sure we would get on if we met-I have always admired your say-it-as-you-see-it outlook)
33. OK, alright, fair enough - Blair did do good things on Northern Ireland (I said that at the time). And in Kosovo and Sierra Leone. And in some ways he made Britain a nicer place (I agree with Simon Jenkins on that). His very optimism and charm was in itself soothing, at times.
Against this there are some very very black marks indeed. The monumental moral catastrophe of the war being the biggest - something which outweighs all his achievements by itself, I should say.
But my point was not to bury the man or to praise him. It was to note the strange and eerie effect he has on people, even his enemies. Test has just had to change his trousers, for God’s sake.
It’s weird.
34 Me thinks you have been spending too much time reading Guido, its not the real world you know.
Come on Brown… What an acheivement. To be the PM in waiting for ten years and to actually hang on and get the job. He must be good!
41. Blair is such a narcissist that he believes not only that anything he does must by definition be for the good of the world, but also that only he can do it. Those qualities are not obviously praiseworthy - indeed in another individual they might lead to being committed to a mental institution.
Anyone got any thoughts on Sir Malcolm Rifkind being the senior Tory to defect tomorrow?
40: I don’t think he is. When the PM resigns, all positions in the government are vacated; so no-one’s in charge until Her Majesty places the task of government in Brown’s hands.
36 It is weird. People do go soft and wobbly when he is around.
50 Hermes. “Nuala” wouldn’t allow it !!
51 observer. I know. Just thought I’d send a tremor through the markets !!
50. Let’s hope so!
Malc threw a wobbly when not invited back as shadow Foreign Sec.
49. But weren’t William Pitt and Winston Churchill guilty of the exact same things?
A moving day for moving house.
O/T. Balls in to 5/1 for next chancellor. Darling eased to 1/10.
re 39. In the words of one of his predecessors “Rejoice, rejoice!”
Perhsps if you can manoeuvre Brown and Harriet Harman under the same bus….
Or perhaps into the same bed. With a goat. Prescott taking over would be small beer by comparison.
41 I think Blair is capable of persuading himself that anything he does is right. So in that sense, he has always done what he believed to be right.
59.”Perhsps if you can manoeuvre Brown and Harriet Harman under the same bus….”
Isn’t it easier to manoeuvre the bus over them than them under the bus?
60. Probably true.
50. No chance. Is it not going to be Curry/Currie ?
59. If they both get hit by a bus I’ll give £20 to Cat Rescue
50. Hmm…. Rifkind would be a genuine blow to the Tories. Not a Federast homophobic non-entity like Quentin Deerstalker-Davies.
Is this Rifkind rumour based on fact? Indeed is this defection rumour based on anytbing at all other than Ian Dale (peace be upon him)?
I apologise for going O/T on such an important day in British politics: Further to my posting a couple of days ago on the troubles of Romney: 5 state polls today, and except Iowa, where he holds up at 23% because of massive media spending, the results are dismal: Ohio 7, Georgia and Florida 6 and Pennsylvania 3%.
56. I assume that is a spoof post.
Darling 1.13 and on the rise…
15/24: Yes, test, I was and it was great.
If you ever want to look in on the Commons for a chat sometime (no, I don’t mean defect!), don’t hesitate to drop me a private note. I never break confidences and civilised foes are always welcome.
(let’s leave seanT to gnash his teeth while he does his bit for Britain - his next volume about his sexual prowess…)
67. No, it wasn’t. Obviously Churchill and Pitt were far greater PMs than Blair. My point was that the characteristic you described which made Blair seriously flawed was the same one that made Churchill and Pitt great.
Rifkind is Scottish and incredibly ambitious. He’d be straight into a Brown cabinet. On the other hand, he’s just been reselected for the safe seat of Kensington.
It’s more likely to be John Bercow, AKA the human rat.
70 It’s an interesting point that the very qualities that can make one a very successful politician (self-delusion, overweening ambition, lack of a conscience, narcissism) would be taken as evidence of mental illness in other contexts.
65: ‘Indeed is this defection rumour based on anytbing at all other than Ian Dale (peace be upon him)’
Er, well I read it there, so perhaps not.
71 Oh go on. A Labour MP for Kensington and Chelsea would be interesting and rather wonderful in a way.
It’s getting exciting. A new PM!
69 thanks I might take you up on that some day - I hear there’s a vacancy in Grantham…
(I am about as likely to defect as Norman Tebbit!)
71 on Guido’s blog Bercow denies it emphatically.
72. Indeed. I had an American political philosophy professor at university who firmly believed that Churchill lived in his own reality, which was an extremely warped version of the real world. He reckoned that for a year and a half during WW2 he managed to convince the British public of his version, and it was only thanks to this massive collective delusion that we won the war.
“It’s more likely to be John Bercow, AKA the human rat.”
He inspires strong feelings. I once read a description of him on one website (posted anonymously by a Conservative MP, I believe) as “the Gollum of British politics. Small, gnomelike and misshapen, yet strong, with a demonic inner drive.”
73 all Iain did was report what Ed Balls stated flat out, so it’s Ed Balls’ rumour rather than Iain’s.
49, 60. I’ve got a mate who is perhaps the most charming man I have ever met. A quick example: one day we were really skint and wanted to go get drunk (we were young). So my mate T said he’d go to the nearest pub and cash a cheque. But we didn’t have a chequecard cause we were all so unreliable and overdrawn. Anyway I made a bet with my friend he couldn’t manage it.
He went into the pub - a pub we had never visited before. T got talking to the barman, gassing over a pint. I watched from afar. Within twenty minutes my friend had persuaded the barman to cash our cheque with no guarantee card - basically hand over £50 to a total stranger. I believe the cheque bounced.
I love my friend T, for all his faults. But I’ve worked out where his skill lies. He always believes in what he says, he has absolute faith in what he is selling, he convinces himself he is telling the truth and doing the right thing even when he is patently lying. People warm to this, they want to believe him, they are charmed.
I think my friend T is a bit like Blair.
I missed it unfortunately but will catch up with it later.
Quentin who?
Can I make it clear that the Sir Malcolm I know and have supported for many years would never do such a thing. My party made a grave mistake when it turned him down two years ago and he should have a prominent position in Mr Cameron’s Shadow Cabinet. I will tell you that unlike others in politics, including that dreadful Mr. Brown, he does not harbour grudges and will go on fighting for his party even though his party might not have recognised his many talents.
Sir Malcolm is a bigger man than all of them. Never forget that.
80. “Quentin who? ”
Tarantino?
At least the new First Lady can be be an improvement over the previous one…
I particularly enjoyed Blair saying to Nick Winterton (the arch euro-sceptic) au revoir, arriverderci and auf weidersein. He really was the master at the quick witted response.
84 was the best bit.
What is interesting re the defection rumour is the amount of bile being thrown at John Bercow without any evidence ( Guido claims his office is absolutely denying it, coming from Guido that probably means it is true! ) by tory supporters. I know he is a little semi detached from his party but he is not exactly unique in that, so why all the dislike?
nobody punting on the chancellor market on betfair - good trading to be had..
Nick Robinson just indicated Darling is expected to become Chancellor shortly.
71: ‘On the other hand, he’s just been reselected for the safe seat of Kensington.’
That’s a point. Rifkind has already experienced the trauma of loosing a seat, and the number of dead-cert Labour seats for him to be parachuted into are not as plentiful as they once were. I doubt he’d give up Kensington and Chelsea only to have to fight Broxtowe after Nick Palmer has been urged to step down.
76. Any comparison of Blair with Churchill and Pitt - however oblique - also seems to me indictative of a disturbed mental state. Get some perspective.
83. I’ve just realised I know the new First Lady’s brother! Hooray! I’m connected at last. I am expecting an invitation to Number 10 as soon as I get out of the Playskool go-go bar this evening.
Ironic that Blair’s hurried exit from the political stage is only equalled by Eden in 1957….
83. Amen to that.
86 I think it goes back over about 25 years of politicking. Over that period, he has tended to make enemies, rather than friends.
79. SeanT. We clearly have at least one friend in common.
84 - Wilson was apparently superb at these, and genuinely funny. It’s a shame PMQs was not televised in that era. For instance, early in his first Premiership, Iain Macleod, who’d spent more time in the boardrooms than the Commons in recent months, delivered an attack on the government in a major Opposition debate on steel nationalisation. Wilson’s responded, when he got up, “Do you come here often?” before getting into the speech. The whole House was apparently in stitches.
83. She ought to be your type, Andrea.
the only “first lady” in the UK is Her Majesty the Queen.
The PM is just another public servant. Always hated it when Cherie booked herself into expensive speech gigs in the US as our “first lady”. We are lucky to have an apolitical head of state and the PM’s wife is nothing more than the grocer’s wife.
Oh please Scallywag not the sainted Winston Churchill stuff. 18 months of stupendous glory 1940 -1941 and otherwise nearly 60 years of political failure - see Rhodes James’s book.
William Pitt was clearly barking by the end
90. Ah yes, my mistake. Blair is clearly evil incarnate and it is a crime against nature to even suggest he could possibly have anything at all in common with good people. In fact, I’ve heard that Blair doesn’t even have human bloody, but a thick oily substance that is pumped through his blackened mechanical heart.
I’m glad you’ve given me “some perspective”!
Indeed Liz Windsor is an excellent first lady. Although does that mean that Phil is the first gent. 8-|
90. Ah yes, my mistake. Blair is clearly evil incarnate and it is a crime against nature to even suggest he could possibly have anything at all in common with good people. In fact, I’ve heard that Blair doesn’t even have human blood, but a thick oily substance that is pumped through his blackened mechanical heart.
I’m glad you’ve given me “some perspective”!
95. Nice guy, right? Smart and amiable. Never met the sister, i.e. the First Lady, I don’t think - though she is apparently best mates with my ex.
Actually, why haven’t I been invited to their Notting Hill supper parties to hobnob with Gordo?
*sigh*
A true artist is always in exile.
Sorry for the double post.
99. Blair has been barking since the beginning - and more to the point none of his achievements bear even the remotest comparison to Pitt’s or Churchill’s, as any serious historian (rather than a reader of second rate revisionist biographies) would tell you.
It was an excellent end to a totally inconsequential politician. A shabby, souless and underwhelming PMQs for someone of little historical consequence. The very fact he can even be considered as a mid-east peace envoy should indicate how pointless and irrelevent parliamentary politics has become. A man who illegally invaded a country, who stood by and watched lebanon flattened, who allowed torture flights, who elevated Saudi arabia above the rule of law and who employed a common criminal as his own mid-east envoy is feted as some global peacemaker shames us all.
The comments from that odious scouse cow sum up the reality of the situation….. “WE WONT MISS YOU”
ugh…….
Re 82, Andrea, “80. “Quentin who? ”
Tarantino? ”
SeanT
Nana plaza me up old boy. mind the elephant.
and more to the point none of his achievements bear even the remotest comparison to Pitt’s or Churchill’s, as any serious historian (rather than a reader of second rate revisionist biographies) would tell you.
But that’s more to do with the challenges they faced. Pitt the Elder faced the Seven Years’ War. Pitt the Younger had revolutionary France and Napoleon. We all know who Churchill faced. We simply don’t know how Blair would have reacted in circumstances of that magnitude.
Wow the tories - as led by the frothing and ranting SeanT - are really in a spluttering fit lately aren’t they!
Face it guys - you ain’t ever gonna see a Tory PM again!
101. I’ll have £5 at 8-l on Phil the Greek to be first gent.
as a tory can i sincerely wish tony whatwashisname all the best and wish gordon brown all the luck in his 2 years (max) in his english home.
110. Wanna give me some odds on that ?
Tell me what did Pitt achieve?
Supression of freedom (Six Acts)
Major drink dependency (as had Churchill)
Defeat of reform (effectively for 40 years) when he ousted Fox
Did not defeat Napoleon - Lord Liverpool did that
Did not suppress slavery - Greville did that
Ah yes - he ruled for a long time. Oh and he did quite a lot for free trade. Well done him, but that puts him on a par with Blair
On the defections front, I’d be quite surprised if Bercow jumped ship - he’s a eurosceptic and has had the agreeable experience of seeing his party moving towards him in recent times.
I reckon that if it’s true, it’ll have to be another EU-fan, like QD. Ken Clarke? I’d be truly surprised (and somewhat saddened). I saw someone upthread mention “Curry”, and looking at David Curry’s wikipedia entry ( at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Curry ), he seems to tick the boxes: vice-chairman (to QD) of the Conservative Group for Europe, voted for Ken in the leadership elections, member of the Tory Reform Group - noticeably to the left of QD with his support for equal age of consent for gay men. He has also been abit more successful than QD with frontbench appointments of the years and is a Privy Councillor.
To be fair, all of these are more true for Ken Clarke, but I really don’t see that happening (true, possibly because I really don’t want to see that happening, to be fair
).
Ming classic.
Sopel ” Will there be any LibDems in the cabinet”
Ming “I’ll be very surprised if … No there won’t”
Genius
50 minutes with Her Madge. Some record?
113 - not really as it’s an open-ended prediction that I could never actually collect on (well not until all the Tories here are 6 foot under!)
Ming’s love letter to Gordo won’t help him just now on News 24
“Gordon Brown’s a friend of mine - he’s a man of towering intellect - doesn’t mean I always agree with him about politics”
105. I agree Blair does not remotely compare with Churchill, indeed it’s embarrassing to put them in the same post. But I’m not sure Blair was barking from the beginning. He did seem genuinely keen, moral and idealistic at the start - even an old cynic like me had hopes when I saw him take over. And the Tories were sleazy and depressing by then.
No, something happened to Blair about halfway through. And I think I know when it was - it was that moment when he walked amongst the cheering crowds of liberated peasants in Kosovo, in his gleaming white shirt, listening to all the people he had saved shouting “To-nee! To-nee! We love you!” etc (I’m not exaggerating, you may recall the footage).
Even the most modest and self-aware person, like, say, me, could have had their head turned by that. For a terrible narcissist like Tony Blair it was fatal. I think from then on he wanted to save the world, no matter how quixotic the gesture, because he loved the buzz it gave him, he Loved the Love.
Hence Iraq. He genuinely thought he’d have the same crowds in Baghdad shouting Tony We Love You as he strode through in his shining armour.
Hence also his new role as Peace Envoy, maybe…
I thought Richard Younger-Ross’ question was funniest, or at least Blair’s answer….”I’m not going to bother with that”
classic stuff, who on earth elects younger ross…he’s crackers
110. Actually most the Conservatives on here have wished him the best. You lefty creatures really only see what you want to!
Plaid Cymru in coalition with Labour in Wales? According to teh Grauniad. http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/news/archives/2007/06/27/blairs_final_day_as_prime_minister.html (see 1pm)
Sky: Brown discussing constitutional reform with HMQ….
124. “Sort out the WLQ you oaf” : Lizzy
122 - us Lefty creatures only have to look at the likes of SeanT and Will L to know we still have a “nasty party” to fight with though - and they’re in your party not ours
He’s taking a while - outside chance that he’s asking for a dissolution ?
Here we go!! PM Brown about to speak!
126. Actually, I’m sure either will correct me about this if I’m wrong, but I don’t think either SeanT or Will L is a member of the Conservative Party.
Not that that makes them left-wingers of course…
120. Correct. Blair is more like Lord North or Walpole, an unprincipled fixer, political cross-dresser and self-aggrandiser par excellence.
Will L can’t correct anyone at the moment as he’s been sin-binned for ranting and cussing people.
I’ll admit that I got SeanT confused with Sean F for a moment though
110. Pimpernel
Want to bet on that? The bet is that there will never be a Tory PM again.
Lets make it interesting, £1000.
If I win you give me £1000.
If you win, I give you £1000
Got the confidence of your convictions? Or is it just a load of bull?
By definition the Tories will be considere to mean the Conservative Party as it is generally currently known and accepted by the an agreed neutral arbiter from this forum, and any airs and successors to the party should something change again as accepted by this arbiter as being generally seen as such.
Mt Smithson, should Pimpernel agree, you can stick it up on the agreed bets.
Brown’s had training on his breathing and sorted out his gaping mouth problem….by breathing through his nose….well done that man
Solid start… Going to be a fun few weeks!
126. Even assuming Will L was a genuine poster, which seems suspicious now, he seemed to hate everything about Cameron’s Conservatives. As does Sean. I’ve also seen plenty of nasty Labour posters on this site and others. The only difference is that most of us recognise the nasty types as being at the fringes of each party, whereas you mistake the ranters for being the mainstream of our party.
132 - at what point will you agree that there will ‘never’ be another Tory PM?
Gordon’s words in no.10 struck a chord with his desire for ‘more austere,humble government’-I await with keenness and hope
poor speech… the poor bastard didn’t even look happy…..
Pretty unexciting first speech, but the hints at ‘new priorities’ and ‘change’ are interesting. I wonder just what surprises our new PM has hiding up his sleeve…
With another mention of the ‘government of all the talents’, I’d be surprised if he *doesn’t* have another defection coming sometime later this week.
Let me just clarify ahould anyone be confused.
I believe there will a Tory PM again, thus I win £1000 from you if there is a Tory PM again.
You say there won’t be a Tory PM again so if that is so, I will give you £1000.
Cash, no nonsense, no excuses
125 - noone cares about this supposed “West Lothian Question” apart from those who use it as a cover for other things they dare not say - such as:
“Labour shouldn’t be in power even though they are democratically elected”
or
“Brown shouldn’t be PM because he doesn’t look and sound like me”
or
“I’m a racist and I just don’t like Scots”
Re 138, Rod, again I just missed it, Was it that bad?
136 Hell freezing over?
135 - as I was referring to those Tory posters on this site who are having their ranting fits, I’m a bit bemused as to how this can be now translated into me stating that that is represntative of the Tory mainstream - unless of course you feel the Tory mainstream now consists merely of the handful of posters on this site?
140 - you’re just being childish. Not wanting to risk your money in some grubby little bet doesn’t mean it isn’t his considered view. Leave it!
How would you possibly collect on such a debt?
idiot
Sun’s come out!
110/132 Pimpernel/Yokel
If that offer is widely available, Pimpernel, I’d be very interested. Similar terms to those specified by Yokel. Cash. Four figure sum.
Let me know if you are serious.
136. Well you said ever. Thus I assume that is never ever…
But since your own words confuse you yet you use them. Lets define ever in more realsitic terms, my expected lifetime. Say another 60 years given modern medicine.
By the way either your or my death before that point will not void this bet, it will simply pass over to a nominated successor. Just put the money in a box.
So was that just a a poor attempt at trying to be clever above or do you believe it enough to put your cash behind it?
140. “You say there won’t be a Tory PM again so if that is so, I will give you £1000.”
To repeat Pimpernel’s question: at what point do you decide the bet is lost, and there will never be another Tory PM again? When the Conservative party officially disbands? It’s pretty much impossible to prove - a complete one-way bet.
Now, if you were betting on something like ‘there won’t be a Tory PM within the next 10 years’, that would be feasible… but who wants to have their money tied up for that long?
135. Nasty? Moi? Maybe. Tory party member?? Certainly not!
I’m off for my lager frenzy now (and thanks to stonch if he’s reading, there are better local beers than Singha as you said, and as I’ve now discovered. Tiger, for one)
I don’t want to be mean anymore about Tony, not least cause it upsets a lot of Tories on here, especially Test. And I, too, can also see notable virtue in the man as well as some very serious faults.
So: ave atque vale, Tony Blair.
But one final thought. I sometimes wonder if the reason we all get sentimenal on these occasions is partly because it shows time is passing - and our time, at that. It’s like when rockstars die - you get unduly upset because a little bit of your youth disappears downriver with them.
I think Gerard Manley Hopkins probably put it better than me.
Margaret, are you grieving
Over Goldengrove unleaving?
Leaves, like the things of man,
You, with your fresh thoughts
Care for, can you?
Ah! as the heart grows older
It will come to such sights colder
By and by, nor spare a sigh
Though worlds of wanwood leafmeal lie
And yet you will weep and know why.
Now no matter, child, the name
Sorrow’s springs are the same:
It is the blight man was born for,
It is Margaret you mourn for.
Kappunkap.
140 - the only fair way of doing this is you gave me £1000 now, and if there’s ever a Tory PM again I’d give you £2000.
148. I don’t know whether you feel 60 years is a reasonable ‘ever’ Peter but if you agree that makes it handy, though you can of course negotiate your own terms on ‘ever’.
Was Gordon watching a tennis match - his head swinging back and forth? Otherwise, his performance was OK, but no more.
151 - I think I prefer Singha to Tiger. Anyway, when your in Thailand the sun’s out, who cares anyway.
‘A government of all the talents’ must mean he thinks he’s got someone pretty good lined up - better than Quentin Davies, anyway. I’ve never really had much time for David Curry, but I suppose he could feasibly do a job in some sort of agricultural or rural position… Really hope it’s not Rifkind or Clarke. Or Bercow, come to that. In fact, if the Tories must lose someone else, I rather hope it is Curry.
152 No. Both put £1,000 into an account and leave it there until the bet is decided.
Best to agree precise terms and appoint an arbiter, but it’s easily. It has indeed often been done.
Try not to be elusive, Pimpernel.
152 No. Both put £1,000 into an account and leave it there until the bet is decided.
Best to agree precise terms and appoint an arbiter, but it’s easily done. It has indeed often been done.
Try not to be elusive, Pimpernel.
152. Ho ho, a worthy successor to Bernard Manning. You really missed your vocation old fruit.
153 I’d have settled for fifty, but as long as it’s a finite period and both parties agree, there’s no problem.
Though the £1000 for £1000 doesn’t strike me as good odds either - I can get better odds by simply betting there won’t be a Tory MP after the next election.
Here’s the deal - You stump up £10,000 and if there’s ever another Tory PM I’ll pay you back £11,000.
This offer is open to any one elese interested.
New24 Blair and Kings Cross! Genius…
probably the most anti-climactic change of PM in history…
161 - I mean Tory PM - obviously!
Re 145, Stonch, “you’re just being childish. Not wanting to risk your money in some grubby little bet doesn’t mean it isn’t his considered view. Leave it!”
The clue is in the title of the website, political betting…
163 - only a bad thing if you like climaxes surely..
160. I was tempted to say 50 but I reckon medical science is coming on leaps and bounds.
I’ll be going down the gym later to help keep my side of the life bargain.
Right then Pimpernel, neutral arbiter then, do you have any thoughts?
Please feel free to back out at any point if you wish before this bet is finally struck and then listed.
bet of the day…looks like you can still get 2.2 on Lab most seats with Coral.
161 - what a fantastic offer, 10% interest over (probably) at least 3 years, possibly many more. No thanks.
I will bet you £10k to £1k as you propose, but cash only to be handed over on settlement of the bet, which is either when a Tory PM takes office, or on 27th June 2057.
164,
Damn, Pimpernel, I was going to offer to match that bet for you!
some excellent new markets on hills ive just noticed…
if you think its likely that labour will lose one of the upcoming by-elections you can get a rather fantastic 10/1
161 LOL! That looks like a bit of backtracking, Pimpernel!
Very wise in my opinion. The original offer was highly injudicious.
Nobody’s going to give 10/1 and you know it. The opportunity cost alone kills it.
It’s easy to forget sometimes this is a betting site, isn’t it? I don’t blame Yokel one jot for taking up the challenge - or trying to.
You really don’t fully appreciate how these things work do you? But sure everyone deserves a second chance.
Could someone please allow Pimpernel to edit Post 110 to something that actually makes sense?
Thanks
166 the terms of the bet are as at 161 - I have no wish to wait ages for my payout - so to cover the odds I could get by betting against the Tories for the next 15 elections (ie c 60yrs worth), I think by giving you 1:10 odds I’m being pretty generous.
£10K now for £1K if there’s ever a Tory PM.
If you’re so certain, you’ll only be waiting c3-30 months for your payout…
46. SeanT: “And in some ways he made Britain a nicer place (I agree with Simon Jenkins on that)”
??!!??
Very surprised to hear you say that!
How? And to what?
Violent crime? Antisocial behaviour? Community breakdown? Immigration splitting up cities? All seem to be much worse now.
Or do you mean making homophobic comments in public illegal? Therefore, Britain is “nicer”.
I don’t think it is - unfortunately.
170 - wow ! Generous !
” 7 Tories linke people. Tell that to Quentin Davies! He’s been villified here over the past 24 hrs. ”
Er, that called politics.
Matt.
154.”Was Gordon watching a tennis match - his head swinging back and forth?”
maybe he was secretely watching the match between Marion Bartoli and Olga Govortsova…
173. Time to stop digging.
blimey - getting cross-posts everywhere now!
Pimpernel - I originally asked you for the odds - and in summary - you are yellow
175. Indeed - I got 20 quid on this morning, wish it was more.