O/T: Cameron is extremley energertic; today he has been interviewed on Sky, been to the floods in his local constitiency and kept a pre- arranged international relations meeting in Rewanda. I can only think of Blair who matched him in energy. Whereas Brown tends to be single event orientated.
O/T: Cameron is extremley energertic; today he has been interviewed on Sky, been to the floods in his local constitiency and kept a pre- arranged international relations meeting in Rewanda. I can only think of Blair who matched him in energy. Whereas Brown tends to be single event orientated.
7/8 sorry probles with getting message to go on stream. Whatever peoples view of them we have some good politicians. Look at the U.S. they have some real donkey’s at times!!!
re 5. Thanks to all for the kind comments. Yes - our advertising arrangement with Message Space is now covering our core costs.
One of the reasons our server is so slow at the moment is that our archives, according to Robert, are now at 22GB. Once the British Library archiving is up and running we plan to hack that back which should increase the speeds.
I noticed that Gordon was interviewed at Chequers in a suit and tie. Somehow he seems like the sort of man who would wear a suit at the weekend doesn’t he?
Mike I think you are making too much out of this. To be honest it is a wobble which the blogosphere is trying to turn into a maelstrom.
Good stuff. But to be churlish - and why ever not I ask myself - obviously Mike’s one vote outweighs the vast majority of posters from all sides who thought he was talking a load of old b*llocks
10.”re 5. Thanks to all for the kind comments. Yes - our advertising arrangement with Message Space is now covering our core costs.” That is good news Mike, and once again a big thank you to both you and Robert for all the time and effort you put into this great site.
11.”Mike I think you are making too much out of this. To be honest it is a wobble which the blogosphere is trying to turn into a maelstrom.”
Ben I agree, but as I have just posted on the other thread in reply to a comment by Punter I think that it could already have backfired. I have noticed that even some of Cameron’s regular critics have not held back in their condemnation of the possibility of a couple of letters to the 1922 committee. Looking at the story today it would seem that that someone is trying to get a head of steam up pre conference to undermine and damage Cameron as happened with IDS. What if it has the opposite effect and ends up making him stronger before Conference?
11.”I noticed that Gordon was interviewed at Chequers in a suit and tie. Somehow he seems like the sort of man who would wear a suit at the weekend doesn’t he?”
But will we see him in the flooded area’s with his wellies on surveying the damage any time soon, or will we have to wait until a detailed analysis of all the possible angles with focus group reports in case it backfires?
13 ChrisD I truly hope it will make him stronger before Conference! DC is the best person in the Parliamentary Party to lead the party. And even if he wasn’t, we can’t keep changing leader. I mean do they all want a bloody go?
14 Don’t. We’ve already had Hillary Benn in wellies, trying to argue that it’s all the Victorians fault because they didn’t build the drains big enough.
Mind you at least someone at CCHQ appears to have been reading last night - all our comments on the cuts to the Flood Defence budget have made it through to DC!
12. Hear hear. No one else thought he should do it Mike. Most of us just wanted to whip the culprits to death. Even the opposition!
15. Ben, as I said in the previous thread this is not Cameron’s high noon but the party’s. Is this the kick up the backside that we need to make us realise that we can’t keep having our own ground hog with leaders and that team work involves more than just the leader stroking the ruffled feathers of MP’s and members but a big commitment from all of us to work as a team and keep our dirty washing out of public view?
How depressing. Just been on ConHome and I’m now thoroughly depressed. I’m sure half the people on there are actually employed by the Labour party to depress us true blue Conservatives…
Having just got back home and hearing the Cameron news this morning on the radio perhaps the Tory contributors on here could answer my question: does the Tory party accept stark, staring nutters as members?
21.Ben, I don’t recognise a lot of those posters and in fact I would say that leaving them to their little feeding frenzy will just show up how ridiculous they are.
“18 Concur. The party needs to be aware that it will never be able to implement anything like a Conservative policy if it doesn’t get into power!” Their usual mantra is always “I don’t want power for powers sake”, they seem to prefer the comfort zone of a right wing debating society which achieves absolutely bloody nothing for Conservative voters. They just can’t see how worthless that is to ordinary voters who feel let down by this government on a daily basis.
I think you mean there is a desperate attempt by Guido Fawkes, who has spent the last year writing drivel to the effect that loads of Blair advisers would end up in jail. Your posts suggest a lack of familiarity with the planet I and others who post on this site live on.
re 20. I can think of nothing more pleasurable from a betting perspective than having a Tory leadership race. In 2005 I cleared a £7,000 profit. This would have been a lot higher but I lost my bottle one weekend when there were all the suggestions that the MoS was going to carry a story about DC and hard drugs.
22. As a broad church the Conservative party will accept members from all backgrounds and states of mind! Equally the Labour party has it’s nutters and the Lib Dems have Lembit.
23. I will no doubt be called a troll for posting a supportive note on there, as I’m not a regular poster merely a ghost. However the trolls will attack so might be useful!
25 - I suggest you read the Sunday Times, this is going to blow up sooner or later. Parry (who advised on Iraq remember, not someone to trust) introduced a last minute proviso to change the terms of what was needed to prosecute and he ruled that the smoking gun piece of evidence was inadmissable because (and this is quite hilarious) Levy denied that it was true.
The more people keep mentioning it, the easier it is for people like me to highlight how corrupt the system is. We were getting somewhere when Archer, Hamilton etc were prosecuted, this government has taken us a step back into the dark days but it won’t last.
About time this 2006 story popped up again I think - how Labour cut funding to the Environment Agency’s flood defence spending:
“The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs was in financial crisis last night after being told to cut its budget by nearly £200m over the next six months. The Guardian has learned that the 7% savings are expected to bite deeply into flood defence work, nature conservation and canal repair schemes as well as a host of scientific bodies and research groups.
Some of the most swingeing cuts will be borne by the Environment Agency, which is expected to cut £14.9m on flood defences and £9m on environmental protection. Last night it emerged that many people living in vulnerable areas may not get additional flood defences this year and could end up paying higher insurance rates. The cost-cutting has been ordered largely to make up for losses incurred in a disastrous revamp of the farm subsidy system.”
And, unbelievably, despite the recent floods, they’re going to do it again:
“EA cuts despite flooding
10/07/2007
The Environment Agency (EA) is to face severe staff cutbacks later this year according to plans drawn up by the government, the Observer reports.
Amid the worst flooding the UK has seen for decades, the EA has learnt that 2,000 of its 13,000 staff will lose their jobs if prime minister Gordon Brown’s staff cuts go ahead.
Unison, the public services union, has criticised the move saying it is hypocritical of the government to pledge £14 million for flood aid while removing the infrastructure necessary to prevent future damage at the same time.
The EA, which is responsible for managing flood defences and ensuring environmental health and safely levels are maintained across the UK, has played a crucial role in managing recent flooding across the country which have caused an estimated £1.5 billion of damage.
Pollution control and monitoring services at the EA are expected to be hit, but anti-flood campaigners report they have been told to expect cuts to flood defence experts.
With flooding predicted to become increasingly frequent in the future as part of the effects of climate change, the EA’s role in flood defence will become even more imperative.
Hull, which was one of the areas most badly affected by flood water, depends upon EA flood warnings as more than 90 per cent of the city is below sea level and many housing estates have been built on marsh land.
Its been confirmed that most ConHome posts are currently from Labour activists - most of them are anti-Conservative rants. There is an email going round amongst Labour activists encouraging them to go to the site and post abuse! Nothing ceases to surprise when it comes to Labour dirty tricks.
17. Whatever the merits of a private prosecution on cash-for-honours, I think the Tories have a secret mole at the Observer. Because no pro-Labour editor would have let this mad crazy snob, Sarah Helm, aka Mrs Jonathan Powell, let rip on the front page about the Gestapo-like police, the way she has.
Brcause it is difficult to imagine a piece more likely to encourage support for Detective Yates and the Met, than this bleating drivel from an Islington posho.
A couple of snippets from Sarah Helm:
“I would have liked to tell Mr Yates that his investigation was going nowhere. Because I knew that Jonathan, for one, was innocent. I knew because I knew my own husband. He was honest - infuriatingly so! He never even accepted a Christmas hamper without sharing out the best preserves with his staff!”
Yes! The best preserves! Ohmygod what a travesty that this paragon of manhood should be charged! The best preserves! The best preserves!!
There follows a heart-rending scene where Mrs Helm and her daughters are NEARLY frightened by a policeman at the door, though it turns out just to be a family friend who had “come to reassure me”. This vignette is so harrowing I shan’t repeat it here.
The true measure of Mrs Helm’s anger is shown by her comments on the Turner arrest, when the blessed Ruth is taken at dawn -
“as if she were some street criminal”.
Oh goodness. She was arrested before breakfast - “like a street criminal”! How common! How awful for her! AND
“she was forced to dress in the presence of a female police officer”.
How odiously infra dig. How desperately working class. Those police have no respect for their betters.
33. PS On a socio-lexical note, it should also be noted that Mrs Powell’s use of the word “preserves” is regarded as decidedly non-U, and indicative of a person of lower middle class origin with deep insecurities about their social status. i.e. she is a desperate snob. i.e. she is classic New Labour.
31. That’s because 18 years of Conservative government allowed the Labour opposition to bring in discipline. I just hope it doesn’t take us 18 years to do the same…
35. It was a bit like the rule of the mob Benedict. I wouldn’t have given the two MPs a chance had they tried to defend their position!!!
A GE in 08 would help Labour to stem the tide of losses in the district poll but would put their remaining county seats at real risk in 09 because the Tories would, I think, fare better on a lower turnout.
33. The police are though, generally from the lower orders, just like the criminals they are supposed to catch.
The real trouble with the police is that only someone with a serious personality disorder would want to be a filth in the first place. Or a NuLabCon politician for that matter.
Antony don’t forget that there will probably be legislation to delay the County elections until June so they can be combined with the European Elections. I doubt the Labour party will want to combine the GE with the EE because of the turnout of Conservatives. In fact I’m not sure they are even allowed to combine them.
Don’t forget a GE in 08 would help them save London from a Boris win…
34 It is a big increase in the vote for the ruling AK party giving them another overall majority - last time got 34% however will get less seats then last time as a third party has passed the 10% threshold
42 - a fair point. However, a point will come when Labour will start to regain seats in local elections as they will be starting from such a low ebb. Will that be before 2010?
40/42 - So what Antony? Are the relatively small number of remaining county council seats really going to prevent Gordon calling an early General Election if he thinks he can win? Of course not. So I don’t really see your point.
47 - unlikely. They’re still going to be losing by then. The Counties if separate from a GE will see Labour being thrashed as dual election keeps Labour turnout etc artifiially high.
28. UKPaul. Your posts are becoming so full of conspiracy theories that frankly they are no longer worth reading. They show a complete ignorance of how the CPS works. If you want to see the checks and balances of the CPS you’ll find them on the internet and youl’ll realize how many people have to scrutinize the evidence in a case like this before a conclusion is reached.
It seems you would prefer your justice be administered by a lynch mob. ie. They’re obviously guilty because I think they are.
45 I don’t think GB would shed by many tears for Ken. Besides having a Tory there means having someone to dump the blame onif the Olympic preparations go awry at all
50. Given that the Left and Labour are havens for conspiracy theorists when they’re out of power, nothing amuses me more, then to here individuals such as Roger, talking about authority never being abused and misused.
Who was the famous commentator and writer that said, ‘you take reality, and water it down, the truth is so sensational it would never be believed’?
45. Ben in the present climate the big question is whether Cameron will even want Boris to stand. His dummy run with an unsuitable celebrity candidate ended in tears. I suspect Boris has considerably less chance of winning than the hapless Lit but far more opportunity on bringing humiliation to his leader
50 - Your posts have become so blind to reality roger that they are no longer worth reading. The political system tends to corruption, we know that. This has been viewed by commentators across the political spectrum as a horrendous whitewash that has made the political classes even more distrusted.
It seems you like your politics corrupt, I do not. I cheered at Archer and Hamilton being prosecuted and only a partisan would have thought differently this time.
I have already given hints of the *evidence* (lynch mob what the hell are you on about?) that will prolong this and which will come back to bite them and those who seek to support them, if you want to look a fool later then carry on and try and imagine that it doesn’t exist.
This is important, for anyone who cares about politics and not just their selfish partisan needs, it is an important issue that will not be allowed to vanish.
Sorry Paul but I come from a family of lawyers and old habits die hard. I seldom believe in conspiracies and generally believe that justice is fair. I have met too many incorruptable lawyers. I have absolutely no time for arguments such as yours because they are not based on evidence or fact but on gut instinct which is worthless.I have no prejudice in this case on political grounds other than that I predicted there would be no case to answer and it’d nice to be right once in a while.
ukPaul- You know the cash for honours things gave ammunition to people like Mugabe to take the piss out of UK politicians. My in laws seriously believe that UK politics is run by criminals on par with the mafiosa- this is how cash for honours and Blair’s questionning played out on the international front.
I think the Tories were as happy as anyone to see Archer and Aitken getting their just deserts, they discredited the Tory party as much as anyone else. Boris I fear is on par-a liar, louse and bragard.
“The Sunday Times has also discovered that there was a second key piece of evidence – a diary kept by Evans that allegedly details a series of meetings at the House of Lords in 2004 with Lord Levy, Blair’s chief fundraiser, to discuss a peerage.
One well-placed Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) source said the diary was “dynamite” and provided “spectacular” evidence of an alleged “agreement” for Evans to be ennobled in return for a £1m loan.”
and
“Government sources revealed Evans’s diaries were central to the investigation. The Sunday Times has established that there are entries apparently recording discussions between Evans and Levy in 2004. In these meetings, the diaries allegedly explicitly link the offer of a loan to the promise of a peerage. Levy told police he had never made any such offer.”
Two points, firstly, the CPS know that Parry has stuffed them, hence these leaks.
Secondly, the diary was ruled as inadmissible evidence *because Levy said they were not true*. That is, Levy got off solely because he claimed to be innocent. That’s not a justice system, it’s the Wild West.
60 - She was merely an accessory to the real criminal activity from Levy. She shouldn’t have been dragged into it but, for that, you have to blame the labour hierarchy. The way they closed ranks and shunned the school head was also appalling and indicative of their mindset.
If people think as they do now, and moreso as a result of this, that policy can be bought then we have a system that is dying and this decision hastens that death. When the BNP and other fringe parties are atracting more and more support the centre cannot hold much longer.
The Sunday Times simply watched Evans on TV last night when he discussed with his interviewer conversations he’s had with Levy where he discussed this. It amounted to nothing. If you can’t spot an overhyped non story after posting on here for so long I’m really surprised.
“Secondly, the diary was ruled as inadmissible evidence *because Levy said they were not true*. That is, Levy got off solely because he claimed to be innocent”
I have never read such ignorant rubbish in my life! The police decide whether the diary was genuine and if so it’s admissable. Levy has veto.
does anyone not think that this whole boris thing could blow up in the tories face big time - its as if the tories are trying to play to the image of being loveable but compleatly lightweight.
Tories = Boris = Nice but lightweight
Labour = Ken = Not as likeable but serious.
Equals Labour win in my opinion and the further establishment of lightweight tories that arn’t serious about being in power.
Saw Iain Dale on TV, when asked about the Tory MP’s asking for a vote of confidence in Cameron, he said,’Can’t see why everyone is getting worked up about two pointless by election results’ Was that the same Iain Dale who was talking up the Tory chances in ES, and saying on his blog, he expected Lit to come a ‘good second’
64 - Don’t write such rubbish roger, the police did not declare it inadmissable, Levy claimed that Evans had lied and the CPS believed him. The police declared the diary as being an accurate reflection and that it matched their other evidence.
If you think that the Sunday Times just watch the TV then your credibility (or what’s left of it) has been shot to pieces. Retire gracefully if you like, I’m quite prepared to keep going and will be very glad to keep this in people’s minds for as long as it takes.
That a champagne socialist is leading this fool’s errand just makes it all the more pleasurable for me.
Labour’s 2005 election victory was funded by bribery. Given how close the election was, we can conclude we’ve been governed by an illegal government for the last 2 years!
Labour, the party of unprecedented sleaze, the party of the few, and not the many.
“The CPS, said one source, “knew the case was built on” the agglomeration of pieces of a jigsaw rather than one damning find. But as the meeting unfolded, Perry dropped one bombshell - and then another.
First, he declared that Evans’s diaries would be inadmissible as evidence in a court case, or at least face significant challenges to their admissibility. They were, he said, merely “hearsay” - because the alleged meetings and discussions were disputed by Levy.
However, one CPS source alleged this weekend: “The Evans diaries are dynamite. They should have been enough for a case against Evans.”
Second, Perry declared that for a case to succeed, the prosecution would have to show evidence of an “unambiguous” agreement to bestow and honour in return for funding.
“He suddenly raised the burden of proof,” said a Whitehall source. “It was the first time he had mentioned unambiguous.”
Some sources say Yates reacted with equanimity; others say he left the meeting feeling as if he had been hit by a sledge-hammer. He could not understand why, if Perry’s points were so important, the CPS had not made them before. “
Paul. I don’t think there is much point in going on with this discussion. You obviously don’t agree with the findings of the CPS and their outside lawyers because the Sunday Times tells you they’ve got it wrong. Will L seems to agree with you so maybe you should sign up to his petition?
I’ve spent the afternoon arguing with a cousin of mine and his wife that the coverage of Levy wasn’t anti-semitic. For what it’s worth I argued that it wasn’t. They argued that if it had been Ashcroft they wouldn’t have painted such a Shylockesque figure. I argued that some people-Archer for example-lend themselves to caracature
Will L you said something similar before - seriousley what the hell are you on. Look I come to this site cus i like hearing people with differing views. 90% of the posters have the ability to communicate their ideas in a sane clear and concise way - I often compleatly disagree - but your self obsessed posts are really very tedious - what are you trying to achieve?
Actually don’t answer that just stop your ramblings or try and convince people that are impresionable - whch you wont find on this site.
I’ve always made the stoutest defence of our party, but red flag you are totally out of order. Your post was abusive. You should apologise Red Flag. You just bring our party through even more disrepute. Say sorry.
On cash for peerages, I would say we’ve learnt a lesson, and it won’t happen again.
80 - Which is a post, of course, by Will L under an assumed name.
by
Will L's psychologist
July 22nd, 2007 at 9:11 pm
67 “Every donor who has given the party more than £1 million has been given a knighthood or a peerage.” - what are the comparative figures for the Tories?
“They argued that if it had been Ashcroft they wouldn’t have painted such a Shylockesque figure. I argued that some people-Archer for example-lend themselves to caracature”
Roger, after the way that Ashcroft was targeted and treated by this government and a certain newspaper your attempts to drag him into this mess do you no favours.
77. Included in this useful factual information are such gems as “If you give over £50,000 to Labour you have a 9,76% chance of becoming a Lord. If you don’t you have a .009% chance” Wow!!!
Another interesting but little known fact is that if you are a Tory supporting Newspaper proprietor your chances of being offered a Lordship is about 50%. If you aren’t your chances are down to .009% again.
79 - don’t forget Will L also abuses the fundamental basis of discussion here by impersonating other posters - he did so to myself and Punter on the evening of the by-elections. He should be banned again.
66 it’ll be the same by elections that you said had so many local factors the results were meaningless.
85 why do I get the feeling that we won’t see any more posts from ‘labour defender’ at least until Will L forgets to change his name again.
Will L - we had this over grammar schools where you had to be shown up to be the auto-didact on steroids and too much caffeine that you clearly are. This is a political betting site and some of us dabble on it out of a general interest in politics - enough with the long, boring and usually mad posts.
**FURTHER UPDATE - CASH FOR HONOURS - PRIVATE PROSECUTION**
“The correlation between making large donations to the Labour Party and receiving an honour is extraordinary. Statistical analysis shows that 58.54% of all donors giving more than £50,000 to the Labour Party receive an honour. This compares to just 0.035% of non-donors. Large Labour Party donors are 1,657 times more likely to receive an honour than a non-donor and 6,969 times more likely to receive a peerage. It is almost impossible to avoid the conclusion that the Labour Party has been selling honours, including places in the House of Lords. An analysis of all donations over £50,000 since 2001 reveals that Honour certainly has its price. We publish below the average amount donated by the recipients of various honours – an “Honours Price List”. Those receiving a Peerage have given £1.07 million on average, and a Knighthood £747,000…”
81 - yes, but his posts are just spam. It’s not a question of not agreeing with what he says (though no sane person would) it’s that he uses BLOCK CAPITALS to draw attention to his drivel, he impersonates other posters, and generally undermines the comments threads on this website. He is therefore harming the whole thing.
Actually I’ve posted before. And may I add that my IP address proves I’m probably on the other side of the country. I just find attempts to stifle debate uncomfortable. And again I say Labour is changing. We won’t sell honours any more under Brown.
Apparently Will L was at school with Mike. Unbelievable I know but apparently true. Obviously will L didn’t do his homework which should be an object lesson to all school children.
I can’t believe that the last 15 or so posts have all been about another poster. Grow up the lot of you. If you don’t like his posts, ignore them. I do.
In other news, Andrea can you tell us if there is any legal reason why the GE cannot be held on the same day as the European Election in June 2009?
I concur with stonch - for example - Seant and me have very very little in common politically but i can deal with his occasional E.U rants because a lot of the time he is a funny guy and capable of putting across some very well made points even if I happen to think he is fundamentally wrong.
As far as I can tell the only thing that Will L brings to this site is disripute.
what I also find strange about his posts is when he uses terms like “Looks like we’ve got you rattled” who is this “we’ve” as far as I can tell its you on your own, despite how many different names you use.
Also I don’t understand why he seems to think that because he annoys people he see’s it as some form of success that proves that he is correct in his views.
83 SBS - please don’t use the “please Sir, but they did it first” excuse. The Conservative Party has reaped the reward of its association with sleaze; not one but three crushing electoral defeats. The Party that promised to be purer than pure no longer claims that, its now “:everybody does it”. The betrayal of that promise is worse than mere sleaze, it has cast a near indelible stain on public life in this country.
We have the presumption of innocence so the absence of criminal charges means we must presume those named are innocent. The facts though look more like “not proven” than “not guilty” - unfair on the innocent but a result of the secrecy and lack of real transparency that the Labour Party practiced. It’s not over and there are relationships between consultancies, market researchers and think tanks and the current regime that are not as transparently unsullied as they should be. There may be others between organisations and the Conservative and Liberal Democrats that would also not bear close scrutiny. Lets hope that all the parties have learnt from this and that stain proves not indelible but just one that need the right treatment.
The thing about Will L that makes him particularly easy to ignore is that as soon as you see the capital letters you just scroll. On the odd occasions that he forgets to press the capital key just the first line is always enough. Martin Day writes three lines that make sense and then …………and you feel cheated!
98. Ben I am sorry - I take your point and will leave him alone, as far as I am aware there is no reason why you can’t hold a general election on that day and as far as I am aware that is when the next general election will be.
97. Yes, there is a case for improving public services. But what if taxes are rising without any real improvement?
Why is there such a big public outcry over the state of the health service? Yes a few new hospitals have been built in Labour marginals, but what about the rest of the country where they are being shut and wards closed?
Yes, a few schools have had a coat of paint, but what about the general collapse in educational standards, such that unprecedented numbers are leaving school unable to read and write? Yes, there are some new shiny city academies, but they have a dire record when it comes to imroving attainment!
These are clear examples of unprecedented waste of public money. And it is this that Brown will be remembered for.
I doo agree with Brown on some areas of policy. But this means nothing. I also know he doesn’t have the ability to bring improvement because he doesn’t know HOW.
And I would add, if you don’t like BLOCK CAPS, don’t read any Paine, as he uses them a lot!!! lol
On the nail as always Ted. I would just say that ‘unproven’ is not really the case. It’s more a badly defined law and one that the police should have not been involved in. But I couldn’t agree with you more that something now has to be done and we have to move on.
Will L, as Polly Toynbee argued eloquently, its all exageration. The problems aren’t as bad as the press is making out. And in any case the greater such problems, the stronger the case for raising taxes. Taxes in the UK are still well below the european average, which is why public services aren’t as good.
And I’d that I think the BBC is doing a great job. Its very balanced, and not one sided as some claim.
104. Thanks red flag. So we have two years in which to recover the lead we’ve held in the polls for the last 16 months. Only two years until we can get rid of Labour. Brilliant.
107. There will always be problems of some sort. And if we just raise taxes, without really knowing what to do with the money, we won’t solve any problems.
France thinks its taxes are far too high. So the Europeans are beginning to think that Britain’s lower tax model is better in the long run for everyone. The problem is getting ‘value for money’ out of spending. This the British haven’t solved. And Labour has never been any good at.
And lets not get distracted from the main issue. Labour has got away with unprecedented sleaze yet again. Their ability to create a smokescreen, and cover-up the truth is astonishing. The lesson has not been learnt, and is destined to be repeated. Look at Brown and the ‘Smith Institute’. He’s even more currupt then Blair. At least Blair waited till he was leader before pump-priming the bank accounts. Brown didn’t even bother to wait!
The situation in the Tewksbury and now Gloucester areas is becoming critical… there is a real danger that a major power station is about to be flooded and that will cut off 500,000 homes.
Fresh water isn’t available to 150,000 homes already.
This is a huge test for the government and Brown. I think the scale of the problem is now becoming clear and the longer term effects that it will have. This could cost a absolutely massive amount of money.
Cameron is stating the flood defense budget were cut last year… denied by the Labour.
109. Britain’s problems are due to lack of support for public services. Money does matter. You can’t feed the poor without money. Charity is not enough. Our conscience is in our taxes. We have to pay more, for better schools and hospitals. Spend it better, yes of course. But that’s not an argument for not spending at all.
by
The Labour Defender
July 22nd, 2007 at 10:12 pm
Will L, please stop posting ridiculous straw man posts under the Labour Defender tag. Do you think people are that stupid? You speak with exactly the same “voice”.
Ben Redsell - before you say anything, this one poster has filled the whole thread with utter tripe under two names - we have every right to want to drive him away.
113. I was just waiting to see how long he could keep this charade going before running out of nonsense to write. Or worse still -introduce another character
113. Stonch, here you are again. What are we going to do with you. Some make points, others shout abuse. We don’t have trouble know which category you fall into.
And nothing amuses me more then being accused of being a labour defender. This is getting really silly, now. Next I’ll be accussed of being a member of the Socialist Workers Party!!! That would be even more amusing. I assure you I’m very much Tory true, and through. And I assure you my voice is very different from that of Labour posters. For a start I usually say the opposite! (Also I notice labour denfender doesn’t seem to have any typos - much unlike me).
Yup. Stonch do us a favour and forget it. I’ve posted on and off for two years. In any case if you think that annoying will l is going to irritate him away, he’s been oblivious. Just ignore him. I succeeded in changing the topic, why don’t you do the same. Sometimes being understanding is the way to win an argument. Defuse the situation. Don’t escalate. Too melodramatic. Peace, bro.
Various poster come up with interesting stuff. I think you have once or twice. Just raise interesting things of your own.
by
The Labour Defender
July 22nd, 2007 at 10:37 pm
117 Tyson - talking about sock puppets isn’t it time you came clean over who entered the by-election comp under your name?
117. Has it occurred to you that on various days I’ve been impersonated by at least a dozen other people, posting as will, will l, herbet, herbert proper junior, etc, etc. IP records prove that these are other people. Why they want to impersonate me I don’t know. I don’t think my insights are any more valuble then anyone else’s, or impersonating me will give any extra credibility.
May be its the opposite. People are just bored and like making mischief.
In any case. Ladies and gentlement, I bid you goodnight. Sleep well, be ye of any party or none at all.
111. “The situation in the Tewksbury and now Gloucester areas is becoming critical… there is a real danger that a major power station is about to be flooded and that will cut off 500,000 homes.”
I remember a few weeks ago that there was real worries about a power station at risk of being flooded should this summer weather continue. I think it was the one near Oxford which we passed on our way to our hols in France? We had some very interesting weather and driving conditions both on the way down and on our return.
I remember noticing just how swollen the rivers were and that any more heavy rain would be devastating in some areas. Maybe it is because of where I live but I am an avid weather watcher, and after the winter we had it must have been plain to see that this flooding was a serious possibility and therefore action should have been taken early.
But did this government cut funding instead, and if so why? There is no excuse with the type of detailed long term weather reports we now get. I do wonder if the concentration of Blair and Brown on their respective departure and arrival as PM meant that all those months that we seem to have been rudderless at the top of government meant priorities weren’t where they should be.
Anyone who wants to take a pop at me for these comments and accuse me of being opportunistic to blame the government should just check the funding on maintenance and flood defence were not cut in spite of the long term weather forecast.
We had a horrendous winter up here with several power cuts, when I phoned to enquire what the problem was I was told that the maintenance budget had been cut and that I should expect more of the same, I kid you not!
117. Short short sentences. Short short sentences. Short sentences. The left out to get me. Not Labour Defender. Not Will L. We will meet aggression with aggression. To the bunker!
aaaaah teh bilderberg have got me
by
The Laboured Offender
July 22nd, 2007 at 10:46 pm
IP records can be spoofed, also if you have a variable ip you don’t even need to do that.
by
The Labour Defender
July 22nd, 2007 at 10:54 pm
125. This is as Matt suggested a real test for Brown, will his Macavity tendency come to the fore, or will he do what any PM should do regardless of the risk of political flak and take the gamble to go down there simple so those people know that he is doing his job and putting them first??
by
The Labour Defender
July 22nd, 2007 at 10:58 pm
It’s amazing how one nutter can stop a discussion dead in its tracks. Is this, a thread celebrating the fact PB.com has yet again been featured the press, the worst ever?
Good night peeps, lets hope this is the last we see of Will L and his many personae.
Will L AGREES WITH ME THAT PEOPLE SHOULD STOP INSINUATING THAT WE ARE THE SAME PERSON. STOP TROUBLE MAKING PLEASE. HAVING A MULTIPLE PERSONALITY IS NO JOKE.
by
The Labour Defender
July 22nd, 2007 at 11:11 pm
Cheeky. You are still awake. What do you do during the day stonch? Just wondering?
And I think will l is long gone. Still you should write him a fan letter, as you seem a bit obssessed. lol
by
The Labour Defender
July 22nd, 2007 at 11:13 pm
134 is a silly post from stonch. Will his obssession never end? lol
by
The Labour Defender
July 22nd, 2007 at 11:15 pm
Good night folks. Take it easy.
PS Vote Labour.
by
The Labour Defender
July 22nd, 2007 at 11:18 pm
Toucha toucha toucha touch me
I want to be dirty.
Thrill me, chill me, fulfil me!
Creature of the night.
7/8: Don’t think a lot should be read into what Cameron’s been up to. I was brought up in the area and the floods are worse than anything I’ve seen and (I suspect) up to a genuine 100-year high. Witney is in the Windrush valley - an area with a lot of low-level development. The town I was brought up in - Charlbury - only has a few houses, the station and the cricket club remotely near its river - all are under water which peaked at I’d say 15ft above normal. The club pavilion has I hear been destroyed. So the least the local MP would do - regardless of status - is go and have a look.
Hey, what’s up with you SBS? Are you feeling okay?
More information then we need.
by
Stonch's Beer Belly
July 22nd, 2007 at 11:39 pm
139 Maybe its what a local MP should be doing but there seemed to be an absence of Mr Hull, John Prescott MP, when Hull was hit a couple of weeks ago.
Just received pics from my brother of flooding in his village on Shropshire/Welsh border. He was lucky as water stopped at his back door though all his garden and his garage were flooded but neighbours on both sides houses under several feet. They had invested in flood defences but the barriers were breached and then acted as dams holding the water in as levels fell with pumps not up to volume they had to pump out. There are thousands directly affected and if water supplies are hit then it will be hundreds of thousands. The preparedness of the government and its agencies will come under massive scrutiny especially if the rain tomorrow in South East adds to the flooding coming down the Thames - it will be the South and the Home Counties and, as Yorkshire & Humberside said , when its the South the media notice.
This flooding has potential to damage the “Gordon is change” story - cuts in budgets can be associated with him and Benn gave hostages to fortune claiming “total confidence” in the environment agency. Trying to hide or play down the budget cuts won’t work - saying that cuts weren’t to capital and capital investment will increase to £800 million in 2010/11 (when Baroness Young says they need £1bn now) doesn’t address fact that cuts were to the forward planning budget and its planning that failed. Gordon’s answers at PMQs - we will investigate, I will look into etc - shows lack of action.
re 113 Stonch, Ben Redsell - before you say anything, this one poster has filled the whole thread with utter tripe under two names - we have every right to want to drive him away.”
go and see a doctor. Seriously. You are doing yourself a great deal of psychological harm. You either have a superiority complex now at an advanced stage or you are addicted to crystal meth.
Mike will ban you no doubt but take that advice anyway. They can treat you.
In case you have time on your hands you may want to look at Uncyclopedia, it’s like the Wikipedia but they just make stuff up. You’d feel at home writing stuff for it.
by
Stonch's Beer Belly
July 23rd, 2007 at 12:20 am
That was a really funny link. Any others?
by
Stonch's Beer Belly
July 23rd, 2007 at 12:24 am
142.Ted, just been watching Hilary Benn on the news and furiously peddling the line that none of this could be foreseen, weather an act of god etc.
But I don’t think that they can use that line if they did cut back on the flood defence budget, or were too slow to react to the possible flooding risk in some area’s. They could not prevent this freak weather but there had been a lot of rain this winter and the rivers never really subsided, I think that we could have been a bit better prepared for possible emergencies in some areas when you consider that places like Oxford were mentioned as a concern weeks ago.
I believe one are did not get vital equipment through because it got stuck on the motorway, yet why wasn’t it in place a bit earlier?
I believe that Brown is now going to visit some area’s tomorrow having held a cobra meeting.
Christmas is well celebrated in Turkey and will continue to be so as the Turks as a nation are not, and never have been, fanatical.
The AKP is Islamic as the Christian Democrats in Germany are Christian. And like Christian socialist or democrats the AK party has a spectrum of piety and pragmatism. So please do not over-egg the bit about an ‘Islamic’ government.
I lived in Turkey in the early 80s and then in the late 90’s. I have met the current PM (who used to be a professional footballer) when he was the mayor of Istanbul.
He is committed to the secular state but, as a religious man and like Christians in many other countries, he wants a little more ‘moral compass’ about the place.
As for a coup, the position of the army in Turkey is unusual as it has, since the republic was founded, had a well understood and formal role of defending the Ataturk reforms creating the secular state which, interestingly gave women the vote before most countries in the west of Europe did. Unless a government of any colour threatened the basic tenets of the republic I cannot see that happening again any time soon.
The last time the military intervened was nearly 30 years ago (an incompetent right wing government had just replaced an incompetent left wing one) in response to a collapse of the parliamentary system, the collapse of law and order, and endemic terrorism. I was there and remember well the celebration that resulted in the following days.
The military then as now are very disciplined, effective and extremely well educated. They fulfil their role within the democratic system.
The AKP won the last election as the party to actually govern the country after another period of coalition and chaotic governments. They have gone further and faster than anyone expected in meeting EU criteria for negotiations ( to the disappointment of the anti-Turkish racists in other European countries like France) and look set to move as fast in the future as they have done to date.
Like all these things in any country a quick post is not going to do it justice but my view of Turkey is very positive and is of a very dynamic society which could show the way to the more wayward Arab Islamic states in how to blend modern and traditional, religious and secular.
in a futile attempt to keep Will L amused (rather like frightening natives by giving them mirrors) here is the uncyclopedia on a few British politicians -
There you are mike - you are making the weather / News!
LOL! Yup, that’s what we want - more markets!
Onwards and upwards, Mike!
They seem to think that this website is a business venture and that Mike makes money out of the site. I don’t think that’s the case.
Site traffic = Advertising revenues!
Mike - are you near breaking even on the website yet? I know you’ve put a lot of your own (winnings) into it.
Have “The Daily Politics” rung you up yet?
O/T: Cameron is extremley energertic; today he has been interviewed on Sky, been to the floods in his local constitiency and kept a pre- arranged international relations meeting in Rewanda. I can only think of Blair who matched him in energy. Whereas Brown tends to be single event orientated.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/6910542.stm
O/T: Cameron is extremley energertic; today he has been interviewed on Sky, been to the floods in his local constitiency and kept a pre- arranged international relations meeting in Rewanda. I can only think of Blair who matched him in energy. Whereas Brown tends to be single event orientated.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/6910542.stm
7/8 sorry probles with getting message to go on stream. Whatever peoples view of them we have some good politicians. Look at the U.S. they have some real donkey’s at times!!!
re 5. Thanks to all for the kind comments. Yes - our advertising arrangement with Message Space is now covering our core costs.
One of the reasons our server is so slow at the moment is that our archives, according to Robert, are now at 22GB. Once the British Library archiving is up and running we plan to hack that back which should increase the speeds.
I noticed that Gordon was interviewed at Chequers in a suit and tie. Somehow he seems like the sort of man who would wear a suit at the weekend doesn’t he?
Mike I think you are making too much out of this. To be honest it is a wobble which the blogosphere is trying to turn into a maelstrom.
Good stuff. But to be churlish - and why ever not I ask myself - obviously Mike’s one vote outweighs the vast majority of posters from all sides who thought he was talking a load of old b*llocks
10.”re 5. Thanks to all for the kind comments. Yes - our advertising arrangement with Message Space is now covering our core costs.” That is good news Mike, and once again a big thank you to both you and Robert for all the time and effort you put into this great site.
11.”Mike I think you are making too much out of this. To be honest it is a wobble which the blogosphere is trying to turn into a maelstrom.”
Ben I agree, but as I have just posted on the other thread in reply to a comment by Punter I think that it could already have backfired. I have noticed that even some of Cameron’s regular critics have not held back in their condemnation of the possibility of a couple of letters to the 1922 committee. Looking at the story today it would seem that that someone is trying to get a head of steam up pre conference to undermine and damage Cameron as happened with IDS. What if it has the opposite effect and ends up making him stronger before Conference?
11.”I noticed that Gordon was interviewed at Chequers in a suit and tie. Somehow he seems like the sort of man who would wear a suit at the weekend doesn’t he?”
But will we see him in the flooded area’s with his wellies on surveying the damage any time soon, or will we have to wait until a detailed analysis of all the possible angles with focus group reports in case it backfires?
13 ChrisD I truly hope it will make him stronger before Conference! DC is the best person in the Parliamentary Party to lead the party. And even if he wasn’t, we can’t keep changing leader. I mean do they all want a bloody go?
14 Don’t. We’ve already had Hillary Benn in wellies, trying to argue that it’s all the Victorians fault because they didn’t build the drains big enough.
Mind you at least someone at CCHQ appears to have been reading last night - all our comments on the cuts to the Flood Defence budget have made it through to DC!
12. Hear hear. No one else thought he should do it Mike. Most of us just wanted to whip the culprits to death. Even the opposition!
**CASH FOR HONOURS - PRIVATE PROSECUTION**
There is a rapidly growing campaign for a private prosecution over cash-for-honours. Sign the petition of support, get involved.
http://www.pledgebank.com/cash4prosecution
15. Ben, as I said in the previous thread this is not Cameron’s high noon but the party’s. Is this the kick up the backside that we need to make us realise that we can’t keep having our own ground hog with leaders and that team work involves more than just the leader stroking the ruffled feathers of MP’s and members but a big commitment from all of us to work as a team and keep our dirty washing out of public view?
How depressing. Just been on ConHome and I’m now thoroughly depressed. I’m sure half the people on there are actually employed by the Labour party to depress us true blue Conservatives…
Mike, I think they have seen straight through your rouse to get more betting markets
18 Concur. The party needs to be aware that it will never be able to implement anything like a Conservative policy if it doesn’t get into power!
Having just got back home and hearing the Cameron news this morning on the radio perhaps the Tory contributors on here could answer my question: does the Tory party accept stark, staring nutters as members?
21.Ben, I don’t recognise a lot of those posters and in fact I would say that leaving them to their little feeding frenzy will just show up how ridiculous they are.
“18 Concur. The party needs to be aware that it will never be able to implement anything like a Conservative policy if it doesn’t get into power!” Their usual mantra is always “I don’t want power for powers sake”, they seem to prefer the comfort zone of a right wing debating society which achieves absolutely bloody nothing for Conservative voters. They just can’t see how worthless that is to ordinary voters who feel let down by this government on a daily basis.
I thought that one of Gordon’s first announcements after becoming PM was that he wasn’t going to use Chequers ?
Will L
I think you mean there is a desperate attempt by Guido Fawkes, who has spent the last year writing drivel to the effect that loads of Blair advisers would end up in jail. Your posts suggest a lack of familiarity with the planet I and others who post on this site live on.
re 20. I can think of nothing more pleasurable from a betting perspective than having a Tory leadership race. In 2005 I cleared a £7,000 profit. This would have been a lot higher but I lost my bottle one weekend when there were all the suggestions that the MoS was going to carry a story about DC and hard drugs.
22. As a broad church the Conservative party will accept members from all backgrounds and states of mind! Equally the Labour party has it’s nutters and the Lib Dems have Lembit.
23. I will no doubt be called a troll for posting a supportive note on there, as I’m not a regular poster merely a ghost. However the trolls will attack so might be useful!
25 - I suggest you read the Sunday Times, this is going to blow up sooner or later. Parry (who advised on Iraq remember, not someone to trust) introduced a last minute proviso to change the terms of what was needed to prosecute and he ruled that the smoking gun piece of evidence was inadmissable because (and this is quite hilarious) Levy denied that it was true.
The more people keep mentioning it, the easier it is for people like me to highlight how corrupt the system is. We were getting somewhere when Archer, Hamilton etc were prosecuted, this government has taken us a step back into the dark days but it won’t last.
About time this 2006 story popped up again I think - how Labour cut funding to the Environment Agency’s flood defence spending:
“The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs was in financial crisis last night after being told to cut its budget by nearly £200m over the next six months. The Guardian has learned that the 7% savings are expected to bite deeply into flood defence work, nature conservation and canal repair schemes as well as a host of scientific bodies and research groups.
Some of the most swingeing cuts will be borne by the Environment Agency, which is expected to cut £14.9m on flood defences and £9m on environmental protection. Last night it emerged that many people living in vulnerable areas may not get additional flood defences this year and could end up paying higher insurance rates. The cost-cutting has been ordered largely to make up for losses incurred in a disastrous revamp of the farm subsidy system.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/conservation/story/0,,1835280,00.html
And, unbelievably, despite the recent floods, they’re going to do it again:
“EA cuts despite flooding
10/07/2007
The Environment Agency (EA) is to face severe staff cutbacks later this year according to plans drawn up by the government, the Observer reports.
Amid the worst flooding the UK has seen for decades, the EA has learnt that 2,000 of its 13,000 staff will lose their jobs if prime minister Gordon Brown’s staff cuts go ahead.
Unison, the public services union, has criticised the move saying it is hypocritical of the government to pledge £14 million for flood aid while removing the infrastructure necessary to prevent future damage at the same time.
The EA, which is responsible for managing flood defences and ensuring environmental health and safely levels are maintained across the UK, has played a crucial role in managing recent flooding across the country which have caused an estimated £1.5 billion of damage.
Pollution control and monitoring services at the EA are expected to be hit, but anti-flood campaigners report they have been told to expect cuts to flood defence experts.
With flooding predicted to become increasingly frequent in the future as part of the effects of climate change, the EA’s role in flood defence will become even more imperative.
Hull, which was one of the areas most badly affected by flood water, depends upon EA flood warnings as more than 90 per cent of the city is below sea level and many housing estates have been built on marsh land.
http://www.groundsure.com/newsarticle.php?id=20070710-8966130795fece963fe210661fef8584
27.
re 27 but at least the Labour nutters don’t spend all their energies trying to ensure that the party never wins an election again.
Its been confirmed that most ConHome posts are currently from Labour activists - most of them are anti-Conservative rants. There is an email going round amongst Labour activists encouraging them to go to the site and post abuse! Nothing ceases to surprise when it comes to Labour dirty tricks.
17. Whatever the merits of a private prosecution on cash-for-honours, I think the Tories have a secret mole at the Observer. Because no pro-Labour editor would have let this mad crazy snob, Sarah Helm, aka Mrs Jonathan Powell, let rip on the front page about the Gestapo-like police, the way she has.
Brcause it is difficult to imagine a piece more likely to encourage support for Detective Yates and the Met, than this bleating drivel from an Islington posho.
A couple of snippets from Sarah Helm:
“I would have liked to tell Mr Yates that his investigation was going nowhere. Because I knew that Jonathan, for one, was innocent. I knew because I knew my own husband. He was honest - infuriatingly so! He never even accepted a Christmas hamper without sharing out the best preserves with his staff!”
Yes! The best preserves! Ohmygod what a travesty that this paragon of manhood should be charged! The best preserves! The best preserves!!
There follows a heart-rending scene where Mrs Helm and her daughters are NEARLY frightened by a policeman at the door, though it turns out just to be a family friend who had “come to reassure me”. This vignette is so harrowing I shan’t repeat it here.
The true measure of Mrs Helm’s anger is shown by her comments on the Turner arrest, when the blessed Ruth is taken at dawn -
“as if she were some street criminal”.
Oh goodness. She was arrested before breakfast - “like a street criminal”! How common! How awful for her! AND
“she was forced to dress in the presence of a female police officer”.
How odiously infra dig. How desperately working class. Those police have no respect for their betters.
Election results in Turkey - any experts around tonight?
Projections from 25% of vote counted predict 47% for the ruling AK Party - for a start is this up or down from last time?
Another victory for the islamic party, will be there be a market on the date of the next coup?!
Re 16, Ben, “Hear hear. No one else thought he should do it Mike. Most of us just wanted to whip the culprits to death. Even the opposition!”
Actually the unanimity was amazing.
Re 26, Mike,
BTW well done for the site and well done for beginning to break even!
34 - With an Islamic party victory can I presume that, once more, Turkey didn’t vote for Christmas?
33. PS On a socio-lexical note, it should also be noted that Mrs Powell’s use of the word “preserves” is regarded as decidedly non-U, and indicative of a person of lower middle class origin with deep insecurities about their social status. i.e. she is a desperate snob. i.e. she is classic New Labour.
31. That’s because 18 years of Conservative government allowed the Labour opposition to bring in discipline. I just hope it doesn’t take us 18 years to do the same…
35. It was a bit like the rule of the mob Benedict. I wouldn’t have given the two MPs a chance had they tried to defend their position!!!
A general election next Spring would leave Labour open to massive, massive loses in the county elections of 09.
37. Haha, very good. I’m going to attempt to poach this and use it on my colleagues tomorrow.
A GE in 08 would help Labour to stem the tide of losses in the district poll but would put their remaining county seats at real risk in 09 because the Tories would, I think, fare better on a lower turnout.
33. The police are though, generally from the lower orders, just like the criminals they are supposed to catch.
The real trouble with the police is that only someone with a serious personality disorder would want to be a filth in the first place. Or a NuLabCon politician for that matter.
10 - this is good news. However, we remain very grateful for the enormous amount of time, energy and inspiration you expend on this.
Antony don’t forget that there will probably be legislation to delay the County elections until June so they can be combined with the European Elections. I doubt the Labour party will want to combine the GE with the EE because of the turnout of Conservatives. In fact I’m not sure they are even allowed to combine them.
Don’t forget a GE in 08 would help them save London from a Boris win…
34 It is a big increase in the vote for the ruling AK party giving them another overall majority - last time got 34% however will get less seats then last time as a third party has passed the 10% threshold
42 - a fair point. However, a point will come when Labour will start to regain seats in local elections as they will be starting from such a low ebb. Will that be before 2010?
40/42 - So what Antony? Are the relatively small number of remaining county council seats really going to prevent Gordon calling an early General Election if he thinks he can win? Of course not. So I don’t really see your point.
47 - unlikely. They’re still going to be losing by then. The Counties if separate from a GE will see Labour being thrashed as dual election keeps Labour turnout etc artifiially high.
28. UKPaul. Your posts are becoming so full of conspiracy theories that frankly they are no longer worth reading. They show a complete ignorance of how the CPS works. If you want to see the checks and balances of the CPS you’ll find them on the internet and youl’ll realize how many people have to scrutinize the evidence in a case like this before a conclusion is reached.
It seems you would prefer your justice be administered by a lynch mob. ie. They’re obviously guilty because I think they are.
50. Roger, you think they’re guilty? Lol!
50. You think they’re guilty do you Roger? Lol!
45 I don’t think GB would shed by many tears for Ken. Besides having a Tory there means having someone to dump the blame onif the Olympic preparations go awry at all
50. Given that the Left and Labour are havens for conspiracy theorists when they’re out of power, nothing amuses me more, then to here individuals such as Roger, talking about authority never being abused and misused.
Who was the famous commentator and writer that said, ‘you take reality, and water it down, the truth is so sensational it would never be believed’?
45. Ben in the present climate the big question is whether Cameron will even want Boris to stand. His dummy run with an unsuitable celebrity candidate ended in tears. I suspect Boris has considerably less chance of winning than the hapless Lit but far more opportunity on bringing humiliation to his leader
50 - Your posts have become so blind to reality roger that they are no longer worth reading. The political system tends to corruption, we know that. This has been viewed by commentators across the political spectrum as a horrendous whitewash that has made the political classes even more distrusted.
It seems you like your politics corrupt, I do not. I cheered at Archer and Hamilton being prosecuted and only a partisan would have thought differently this time.
I have already given hints of the *evidence* (lynch mob what the hell are you on about?) that will prolong this and which will come back to bite them and those who seek to support them, if you want to look a fool later then carry on and try and imagine that it doesn’t exist.
This is important, for anyone who cares about politics and not just their selfish partisan needs, it is an important issue that will not be allowed to vanish.
53.”I don’t think GB would shed by many tears for Ken”
I think Gordon Brown was said not to be keen to Ken’s re-admission.
Cameron is “Mostly Harmless”
Sorry Paul but I come from a family of lawyers and old habits die hard. I seldom believe in conspiracies and generally believe that justice is fair. I have met too many incorruptable lawyers. I have absolutely no time for arguments such as yours because they are not based on evidence or fact but on gut instinct which is worthless.I have no prejudice in this case on political grounds other than that I predicted there would be no case to answer and it’d nice to be right once in a while.
ukPaul- You know the cash for honours things gave ammunition to people like Mugabe to take the piss out of UK politicians. My in laws seriously believe that UK politics is run by criminals on par with the mafiosa- this is how cash for honours and Blair’s questionning played out on the international front.
I think the Tories were as happy as anyone to see Archer and Aitken getting their just deserts, they discredited the Tory party as much as anyone else. Boris I fear is on par-a liar, louse and bragard.
But Ruth Turner- on this level. Please….
Here are some quotes for you, read and digest -
“The Sunday Times has also discovered that there was a second key piece of evidence – a diary kept by Evans that allegedly details a series of meetings at the House of Lords in 2004 with Lord Levy, Blair’s chief fundraiser, to discuss a peerage.
One well-placed Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) source said the diary was “dynamite” and provided “spectacular” evidence of an alleged “agreement” for Evans to be ennobled in return for a £1m loan.”
and
“Government sources revealed Evans’s diaries were central to the investigation. The Sunday Times has established that there are entries apparently recording discussions between Evans and Levy in 2004. In these meetings, the diaries allegedly explicitly link the offer of a loan to the promise of a peerage. Levy told police he had never made any such offer.”
Two points, firstly, the CPS know that Parry has stuffed them, hence these leaks.
Secondly, the diary was ruled as inadmissible evidence *because Levy said they were not true*. That is, Levy got off solely because he claimed to be innocent. That’s not a justice system, it’s the Wild West.
Regarding the Cash for Coronets…
Would an Ian Blair ever arrest a Tony Blair?
60 - She was merely an accessory to the real criminal activity from Levy. She shouldn’t have been dragged into it but, for that, you have to blame the labour hierarchy. The way they closed ranks and shunned the school head was also appalling and indicative of their mindset.
If people think as they do now, and moreso as a result of this, that policy can be bought then we have a system that is dying and this decision hastens that death. When the BNP and other fringe parties are atracting more and more support the centre cannot hold much longer.
The Sunday Times simply watched Evans on TV last night when he discussed with his interviewer conversations he’s had with Levy where he discussed this. It amounted to nothing. If you can’t spot an overhyped non story after posting on here for so long I’m really surprised.
“Secondly, the diary was ruled as inadmissible evidence *because Levy said they were not true*. That is, Levy got off solely because he claimed to be innocent”
I have never read such ignorant rubbish in my life! The police decide whether the diary was genuine and if so it’s admissable. Levy has veto.
does anyone not think that this whole boris thing could blow up in the tories face big time - its as if the tories are trying to play to the image of being loveable but compleatly lightweight.
Tories = Boris = Nice but lightweight
Labour = Ken = Not as likeable but serious.
Equals Labour win in my opinion and the further establishment of lightweight tories that arn’t serious about being in power.
I tell you all. It was the Cameleon that won it.
Saw Iain Dale on TV, when asked about the Tory MP’s asking for a vote of confidence in Cameron, he said,’Can’t see why everyone is getting worked up about two pointless by election results’ Was that the same Iain Dale who was talking up the Tory chances in ES, and saying on his blog, he expected Lit to come a ‘good second’
**UPDATE - CASH FOR HONOURS - PRIVATE PROSECUTION**
80% of Labour’s 2005 election funding came from the covert ‘Loans for Lordship’ program.
Every donor who has given the party more than £1 million has been given a knighthood or a peerage.
Three quarters of those individuals who have given more than £50,000 to the Labour Party since 2001 have received an honour.
Source : The Price of Dishonour http://www.bowgroup.org/harriercollectionitems/the_price_of_dishonour.pdf
SUPPORT PETITION http://www.pledgebank.com/cash4prosecution
here we go
election results and interactive map for the turkish results
http://www.bbc.co.uk/turkish/indepth/story/2007/07/070719_election_results_en.shtml
64 - Don’t write such rubbish roger, the police did not declare it inadmissable, Levy claimed that Evans had lied and the CPS believed him. The police declared the diary as being an accurate reflection and that it matched their other evidence.
If you think that the Sunday Times just watch the TV then your credibility (or what’s left of it) has been shot to pieces. Retire gracefully if you like, I’m quite prepared to keep going and will be very glad to keep this in people’s minds for as long as it takes.
That a champagne socialist is leading this fool’s errand just makes it all the more pleasurable for me.
67. CONCLUSION
Labour’s 2005 election victory was funded by bribery. Given how close the election was, we can conclude we’ve been governed by an illegal government for the last 2 years!
Labour, the party of unprecedented sleaze, the party of the few, and not the many.
**** - **** EVALUATION OF TODAYS DISCUSSIONS **** -****
What was a good days discussion goes down the pan when Will L turns up on the scene spouting his usual rubbish and wild consprircy theories.
CONCLUSION
Political betting would be a far better site if Will L just left us alone.
70. How can you say that. Labour’s bigwigs always make sure to share the best preserves with their inferiors.
The best preserves! The best preserves!!
They are morally flawless, anyone who questions this is, ipso facto, a Nazi.
More material regarding this -
“The CPS, said one source, “knew the case was built on” the agglomeration of pieces of a jigsaw rather than one damning find. But as the meeting unfolded, Perry dropped one bombshell - and then another.
First, he declared that Evans’s diaries would be inadmissible as evidence in a court case, or at least face significant challenges to their admissibility. They were, he said, merely “hearsay” - because the alleged meetings and discussions were disputed by Levy.
However, one CPS source alleged this weekend: “The Evans diaries are dynamite. They should have been enough for a case against Evans.”
Second, Perry declared that for a case to succeed, the prosecution would have to show evidence of an “unambiguous” agreement to bestow and honour in return for funding.
“He suddenly raised the burden of proof,” said a Whitehall source. “It was the first time he had mentioned unambiguous.”
Some sources say Yates reacted with equanimity; others say he left the meeting feeling as if he had been hit by a sledge-hammer. He could not understand why, if Perry’s points were so important, the CPS had not made them before. “
Red Flag, are the pips squaking yet? Looks like we’ve got you rattled.
Paul. I don’t think there is much point in going on with this discussion. You obviously don’t agree with the findings of the CPS and their outside lawyers because the Sunday Times tells you they’ve got it wrong. Will L seems to agree with you so maybe you should sign up to his petition?
I’ve spent the afternoon arguing with a cousin of mine and his wife that the coverage of Levy wasn’t anti-semitic. For what it’s worth I argued that it wasn’t. They argued that if it had been Ashcroft they wouldn’t have painted such a Shylockesque figure. I argued that some people-Archer for example-lend themselves to caracature
RED FLAG - DON’T BECOME A TROUBLE-MAKER
We are patient with you, Red Flag, when you make your posts. Don’t cross a line and become abusive. Otherwise, we will have to lodge a complaint.
Actually, in this case, Will L has posted some relevant factual information.
(at least in post 67 he has)
75 - Not just the Sunday Times, a number of sources.
Will L you said something similar before - seriousley what the hell are you on. Look I come to this site cus i like hearing people with differing views. 90% of the posters have the ability to communicate their ideas in a sane clear and concise way - I often compleatly disagree - but your self obsessed posts are really very tedious - what are you trying to achieve?
Actually don’t answer that just stop your ramblings or try and convince people that are impresionable - whch you wont find on this site.
I’ve always made the stoutest defence of our party, but red flag you are totally out of order. Your post was abusive. You should apologise Red Flag. You just bring our party through even more disrepute. Say sorry.
On cash for peerages, I would say we’ve learnt a lesson, and it won’t happen again.
79 If you don’t like what he says, do what the rest of us do - don’t read that bit…
80 - Which is a post, of course, by Will L under an assumed name.
67 “Every donor who has given the party more than £1 million has been given a knighthood or a peerage.” - what are the comparative figures for the Tories?
“They argued that if it had been Ashcroft they wouldn’t have painted such a Shylockesque figure. I argued that some people-Archer for example-lend themselves to caracature”
Roger, after the way that Ashcroft was targeted and treated by this government and a certain newspaper your attempts to drag him into this mess do you no favours.
80. The labour defender - what constiuency party are you in?
Come on now will you only have a 1 in 659(?) chance of getting mine.
77. Included in this useful factual information are such gems as “If you give over £50,000 to Labour you have a 9,76% chance of becoming a Lord. If you don’t you have a .009% chance” Wow!!!
Another interesting but little known fact is that if you are a Tory supporting Newspaper proprietor your chances of being offered a Lordship is about 50%. If you aren’t your chances are down to .009% again.
These are known as political appointments.
79 - don’t forget Will L also abuses the fundamental basis of discussion here by impersonating other posters - he did so to myself and Punter on the evening of the by-elections. He should be banned again.
The Labour Defender IS Will L.
66 it’ll be the same by elections that you said had so many local factors the results were meaningless.
85 why do I get the feeling that we won’t see any more posts from ‘labour defender’ at least until Will L forgets to change his name again.
Will L - we had this over grammar schools where you had to be shown up to be the auto-didact on steroids and too much caffeine that you clearly are. This is a political betting site and some of us dabble on it out of a general interest in politics - enough with the long, boring and usually mad posts.
**FURTHER UPDATE - CASH FOR HONOURS - PRIVATE PROSECUTION**
“The correlation between making large donations to the Labour Party and receiving an honour is extraordinary. Statistical analysis shows that 58.54% of all donors giving more than £50,000 to the Labour Party receive an honour. This compares to just 0.035% of non-donors. Large Labour Party donors are 1,657 times more likely to receive an honour than a non-donor and 6,969 times more likely to receive a peerage. It is almost impossible to avoid the conclusion that the Labour Party has been selling honours, including places in the House of Lords. An analysis of all donations over £50,000 since 2001 reveals that Honour certainly has its price. We publish below the average amount donated by the recipients of various honours – an “Honours Price List”. Those receiving a Peerage have given £1.07 million on average, and a Knighthood £747,000…”
Source : The Price of Dishonour http://www.bowgroup.org/harriercollectionitems/the_price_of_dishonour.pdf
Oh, and Red Flag, what is an inconvenient truth? The greater the cover-up, the greater the sensation.
81 - yes, but his posts are just spam. It’s not a question of not agreeing with what he says (though no sane person would) it’s that he uses BLOCK CAPITALS to draw attention to his drivel, he impersonates other posters, and generally undermines the comments threads on this website. He is therefore harming the whole thing.
Actually I’ve posted before. And may I add that my IP address proves I’m probably on the other side of the country. I just find attempts to stifle debate uncomfortable. And again I say Labour is changing. We won’t sell honours any more under Brown.
Apparently Will L was at school with Mike. Unbelievable I know but apparently true. Obviously will L didn’t do his homework which should be an object lesson to all school children.
I can’t believe that the last 15 or so posts have all been about another poster. Grow up the lot of you. If you don’t like his posts, ignore them. I do.
In other news, Andrea can you tell us if there is any legal reason why the GE cannot be held on the same day as the European Election in June 2009?
84. Chris D. I’m confused? Maybe you should re read my 75.
I concur with stonch - for example - Seant and me have very very little in common politically but i can deal with his occasional E.U rants because a lot of the time he is a funny guy and capable of putting across some very well made points even if I happen to think he is fundamentally wrong.
As far as I can tell the only thing that Will L brings to this site is disripute.
what I also find strange about his posts is when he uses terms like “Looks like we’ve got you rattled” who is this “we’ve” as far as I can tell its you on your own, despite how many different names you use.
Also I don’t understand why he seems to think that because he annoys people he see’s it as some form of success that proves that he is correct in his views.
AND THE CAPITALS ARE ANNOYING AS HELL
Cash for honours is the past, Brown is the future.
He’s laid out a clear agenda. The best interst is in looking at policy, where Labour gives a clear lead. The polls reflect this.
And I’d add that there is a clear case for raising taxes to improve public service. Well done Brown.
Red Flag. As a regular contributor, do you have any views on the legality of holding the Euro Election and the General on the same day?
For goodness sake stop talking about him and engage in some bloody politics!
Re 88, Stonch “The Labour Defender IS Will L.”
Really? I am shocked that you could make such an accusation.
Re 88, Stonch “The Labour Defender IS Will L.”
Really? I am shocked that you could make such an accusation.
Re 92, Labour defender, “We won’t sell honours any more under Brown.”
Really, planning a rental scheme instead? That will require a change in the law
83 SBS - please don’t use the “please Sir, but they did it first” excuse. The Conservative Party has reaped the reward of its association with sleaze; not one but three crushing electoral defeats. The Party that promised to be purer than pure no longer claims that, its now “:everybody does it”. The betrayal of that promise is worse than mere sleaze, it has cast a near indelible stain on public life in this country.
We have the presumption of innocence so the absence of criminal charges means we must presume those named are innocent. The facts though look more like “not proven” than “not guilty” - unfair on the innocent but a result of the secrecy and lack of real transparency that the Labour Party practiced. It’s not over and there are relationships between consultancies, market researchers and think tanks and the current regime that are not as transparently unsullied as they should be. There may be others between organisations and the Conservative and Liberal Democrats that would also not bear close scrutiny. Lets hope that all the parties have learnt from this and that stain proves not indelible but just one that need the right treatment.
The thing about Will L that makes him particularly easy to ignore is that as soon as you see the capital letters you just scroll. On the odd occasions that he forgets to press the capital key just the first line is always enough. Martin Day writes three lines that make sense and then …………and you feel cheated!
98. Ben I am sorry - I take your point and will leave him alone, as far as I am aware there is no reason why you can’t hold a general election on that day and as far as I am aware that is when the next general election will be.
97. Yes, there is a case for improving public services. But what if taxes are rising without any real improvement?
Why is there such a big public outcry over the state of the health service? Yes a few new hospitals have been built in Labour marginals, but what about the rest of the country where they are being shut and wards closed?
Yes, a few schools have had a coat of paint, but what about the general collapse in educational standards, such that unprecedented numbers are leaving school unable to read and write? Yes, there are some new shiny city academies, but they have a dire record when it comes to imroving attainment!
These are clear examples of unprecedented waste of public money. And it is this that Brown will be remembered for.
I doo agree with Brown on some areas of policy. But this means nothing. I also know he doesn’t have the ability to bring improvement because he doesn’t know HOW.
And I would add, if you don’t like BLOCK CAPS, don’t read any Paine, as he uses them a lot!!! lol
(e.g. Commone Sense, Rights of Man, The Crisis)
On the nail as always Ted. I would just say that ‘unproven’ is not really the case. It’s more a badly defined law and one that the police should have not been involved in. But I couldn’t agree with you more that something now has to be done and we have to move on.
Will L, as Polly Toynbee argued eloquently, its all exageration. The problems aren’t as bad as the press is making out. And in any case the greater such problems, the stronger the case for raising taxes. Taxes in the UK are still well below the european average, which is why public services aren’t as good.
And I’d that I think the BBC is doing a great job. Its very balanced, and not one sided as some claim.
104. Thanks red flag. So we have two years in which to recover the lead we’ve held in the polls for the last 16 months. Only two years until we can get rid of Labour. Brilliant.
107. There will always be problems of some sort. And if we just raise taxes, without really knowing what to do with the money, we won’t solve any problems.
France thinks its taxes are far too high. So the Europeans are beginning to think that Britain’s lower tax model is better in the long run for everyone. The problem is getting ‘value for money’ out of spending. This the British haven’t solved. And Labour has never been any good at.
And lets not get distracted from the main issue. Labour has got away with unprecedented sleaze yet again. Their ability to create a smokescreen, and cover-up the truth is astonishing. The lesson has not been learnt, and is destined to be repeated. Look at Brown and the ‘Smith Institute’. He’s even more currupt then Blair. At least Blair waited till he was leader before pump-priming the bank accounts. Brown didn’t even bother to wait!
I’m off. Coming back when the children stop fighting and the adults get a word in.
Any news about Turkey?
The situation in the Tewksbury and now Gloucester areas is becoming critical… there is a real danger that a major power station is about to be flooded and that will cut off 500,000 homes.
Fresh water isn’t available to 150,000 homes already.
This is a huge test for the government and Brown. I think the scale of the problem is now becoming clear and the longer term effects that it will have. This could cost a absolutely massive amount of money.
Cameron is stating the flood defense budget were cut last year… denied by the Labour.
Matt.
109. Britain’s problems are due to lack of support for public services. Money does matter. You can’t feed the poor without money. Charity is not enough. Our conscience is in our taxes. We have to pay more, for better schools and hospitals. Spend it better, yes of course. But that’s not an argument for not spending at all.
Will L, please stop posting ridiculous straw man posts under the Labour Defender tag. Do you think people are that stupid? You speak with exactly the same “voice”.
Ben Redsell - before you say anything, this one poster has filled the whole thread with utter tripe under two names - we have every right to want to drive him away.
113. I was just waiting to see how long he could keep this charade going before running out of nonsense to write. Or worse still -introduce another character
113. Stonch, here you are again. What are we going to do with you. Some make points, others shout abuse. We don’t have trouble know which category you fall into.
And nothing amuses me more then being accused of being a labour defender. This is getting really silly, now. Next I’ll be accussed of being a member of the Socialist Workers Party!!! That would be even more amusing. I assure you I’m very much Tory true, and through. And I assure you my voice is very different from that of Labour posters. For a start I usually say the opposite! (Also I notice labour denfender doesn’t seem to have any typos - much unlike me).
Will L, Herbert Propper, Labour Defender, Punter or whichever posting name you choose- are you going to accuse anyone else of being a rapist tonight.
I tell you when it gets dark on pbCOM be afraid, be very afraid because the creatures of the night come out……
stonch- this is almost as funny as the time Will l posting as Punter forgot to change his name back
Yup. Stonch do us a favour and forget it. I’ve posted on and off for two years. In any case if you think that annoying will l is going to irritate him away, he’s been oblivious. Just ignore him. I succeeded in changing the topic, why don’t you do the same. Sometimes being understanding is the way to win an argument. Defuse the situation. Don’t escalate. Too melodramatic. Peace, bro.
Various poster come up with interesting stuff. I think you have once or twice. Just raise interesting things of your own.
117 Tyson - talking about sock puppets isn’t it time you came clean over who entered the by-election comp under your name?
“I’ve posted on and off for two years”
Computer says no (well ‘Google’ actually)
As someone who analyses language every day similarities become easy to spot.
117. Has it occurred to you that on various days I’ve been impersonated by at least a dozen other people, posting as will, will l, herbet, herbert proper junior, etc, etc. IP records prove that these are other people. Why they want to impersonate me I don’t know. I don’t think my insights are any more valuble then anyone else’s, or impersonating me will give any extra credibility.
May be its the opposite. People are just bored and like making mischief.
In any case. Ladies and gentlement, I bid you goodnight. Sleep well, be ye of any party or none at all.
111. “The situation in the Tewksbury and now Gloucester areas is becoming critical… there is a real danger that a major power station is about to be flooded and that will cut off 500,000 homes.”
I remember a few weeks ago that there was real worries about a power station at risk of being flooded should this summer weather continue. I think it was the one near Oxford which we passed on our way to our hols in France? We had some very interesting weather and driving conditions both on the way down and on our return.
I remember noticing just how swollen the rivers were and that any more heavy rain would be devastating in some areas. Maybe it is because of where I live but I am an avid weather watcher, and after the winter we had it must have been plain to see that this flooding was a serious possibility and therefore action should have been taken early.
But did this government cut funding instead, and if so why? There is no excuse with the type of detailed long term weather reports we now get. I do wonder if the concentration of Blair and Brown on their respective departure and arrival as PM meant that all those months that we seem to have been rudderless at the top of government meant priorities weren’t where they should be.
Anyone who wants to take a pop at me for these comments and accuse me of being opportunistic to blame the government should just check the funding on maintenance and flood defence were not cut in spite of the long term weather forecast.
We had a horrendous winter up here with several power cuts, when I phoned to enquire what the problem was I was told that the maintenance budget had been cut and that I should expect more of the same, I kid you not!
I’M NOT SPARTACUS
—
117. Short short sentences. Short short sentences. Short sentences. The left out to get me. Not Labour Defender. Not Will L. We will meet aggression with aggression. To the bunker!
aaaaah teh bilderberg have got me
IP records can be spoofed, also if you have a variable ip you don’t even need to do that.
122. Situation does seem bad. Brown should go down there. He needs to be seen doing something to help them.
I think, in Will L’s words of 121, all the Creatures of the Night could do with a bit more ‘gentlement’.
123. lol
125. This is as Matt suggested a real test for Brown, will his Macavity tendency come to the fore, or will he do what any PM should do regardless of the risk of political flak and take the gamble to go down there simple so those people know that he is doing his job and putting them first??
128.Whatever, I think that instead of fine tuning his latest 100 day wheeze on housing even he should see that would be inappropriate at this time?
Would go down well and be well received.
It’s amazing how one nutter can stop a discussion dead in its tracks. Is this, a thread celebrating the fact PB.com has yet again been featured the press, the worst ever?
Good night peeps, lets hope this is the last we see of Will L and his many personae.
Cheers
Good night stonch.
Good night, Will.
Will L AGREES WITH ME THAT PEOPLE SHOULD STOP INSINUATING THAT WE ARE THE SAME PERSON. STOP TROUBLE MAKING PLEASE. HAVING A MULTIPLE PERSONALITY IS NO JOKE.
Cheeky. You are still awake. What do you do during the day stonch? Just wondering?
And I think will l is long gone. Still you should write him a fan letter, as you seem a bit obssessed. lol
134 is a silly post from stonch. Will his obssession never end? lol
Good night folks. Take it easy.
PS Vote Labour.
Toucha toucha toucha touch me
I want to be dirty.
Thrill me, chill me, fulfil me!
Creature of the night.
And so to bed!
7/8: Don’t think a lot should be read into what Cameron’s been up to. I was brought up in the area and the floods are worse than anything I’ve seen and (I suspect) up to a genuine 100-year high. Witney is in the Windrush valley - an area with a lot of low-level development. The town I was brought up in - Charlbury - only has a few houses, the station and the cricket club remotely near its river - all are under water which peaked at I’d say 15ft above normal. The club pavilion has I hear been destroyed. So the least the local MP would do - regardless of status - is go and have a look.
THIS WAS NOT WRITTEN BY SBS. EFFORTS ARE BEING MADE TO IDENTIFY THE CULPRIT WHO WILL BE BANNED FOR ONE WEEK
I’m a dirty boy.
I like playing with myself.
Hey, what’s up with you SBS? Are you feeling okay?
More information then we need.
139 Maybe its what a local MP should be doing but there seemed to be an absence of Mr Hull, John Prescott MP, when Hull was hit a couple of weeks ago.
Just received pics from my brother of flooding in his village on Shropshire/Welsh border. He was lucky as water stopped at his back door though all his garden and his garage were flooded but neighbours on both sides houses under several feet. They had invested in flood defences but the barriers were breached and then acted as dams holding the water in as levels fell with pumps not up to volume they had to pump out. There are thousands directly affected and if water supplies are hit then it will be hundreds of thousands. The preparedness of the government and its agencies will come under massive scrutiny especially if the rain tomorrow in South East adds to the flooding coming down the Thames - it will be the South and the Home Counties and, as Yorkshire & Humberside said , when its the South the media notice.
This flooding has potential to damage the “Gordon is change” story - cuts in budgets can be associated with him and Benn gave hostages to fortune claiming “total confidence” in the environment agency. Trying to hide or play down the budget cuts won’t work - saying that cuts weren’t to capital and capital investment will increase to £800 million in 2010/11 (when Baroness Young says they need £1bn now) doesn’t address fact that cuts were to the forward planning budget and its planning that failed. Gordon’s answers at PMQs - we will investigate, I will look into etc - shows lack of action.
re 113 Stonch, Ben Redsell - before you say anything, this one poster has filled the whole thread with utter tripe under two names - we have every right to want to drive him away.”
Do not feed the troll.
End of.
Bene where is your sense of humour? There’s a good tory.
Cameron will almost certainly go for Brown and flood defenses cuts at PMQ’s.
The more I think about this crisis, the more I think that Labour / Brown are going to get a kicking over it.
Matt.
Will L,
go and see a doctor. Seriously. You are doing yourself a great deal of psychological harm. You either have a superiority complex now at an advanced stage or you are addicted to crystal meth.
Mike will ban you no doubt but take that advice anyway. They can treat you.
In case you have time on your hands you may want to look at Uncyclopedia, it’s like the Wikipedia but they just make stuff up. You’d feel at home writing stuff for it.
http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Superiority_Complex
Good point
That was a really funny link. Any others?
142.Ted, just been watching Hilary Benn on the news and furiously peddling the line that none of this could be foreseen, weather an act of god etc.
But I don’t think that they can use that line if they did cut back on the flood defence budget, or were too slow to react to the possible flooding risk in some area’s. They could not prevent this freak weather but there had been a lot of rain this winter and the rivers never really subsided, I think that we could have been a bit better prepared for possible emergencies in some areas when you consider that places like Oxford were mentioned as a concern weeks ago.
I believe one are did not get vital equipment through because it got stuck on the motorway, yet why wasn’t it in place a bit earlier?
I believe that Brown is now going to visit some area’s tomorrow having held a cobra meeting.
Ukpaul and others.
Christmas is well celebrated in Turkey and will continue to be so as the Turks as a nation are not, and never have been, fanatical.
The AKP is Islamic as the Christian Democrats in Germany are Christian. And like Christian socialist or democrats the AK party has a spectrum of piety and pragmatism. So please do not over-egg the bit about an ‘Islamic’ government.
I lived in Turkey in the early 80s and then in the late 90’s. I have met the current PM (who used to be a professional footballer) when he was the mayor of Istanbul.
He is committed to the secular state but, as a religious man and like Christians in many other countries, he wants a little more ‘moral compass’ about the place.
As for a coup, the position of the army in Turkey is unusual as it has, since the republic was founded, had a well understood and formal role of defending the Ataturk reforms creating the secular state which, interestingly gave women the vote before most countries in the west of Europe did. Unless a government of any colour threatened the basic tenets of the republic I cannot see that happening again any time soon.
The last time the military intervened was nearly 30 years ago (an incompetent right wing government had just replaced an incompetent left wing one) in response to a collapse of the parliamentary system, the collapse of law and order, and endemic terrorism. I was there and remember well the celebration that resulted in the following days.
The military then as now are very disciplined, effective and extremely well educated. They fulfil their role within the democratic system.
The AKP won the last election as the party to actually govern the country after another period of coalition and chaotic governments. They have gone further and faster than anyone expected in meeting EU criteria for negotiations ( to the disappointment of the anti-Turkish racists in other European countries like France) and look set to move as fast in the future as they have done to date.
Like all these things in any country a quick post is not going to do it justice but my view of Turkey is very positive and is of a very dynamic society which could show the way to the more wayward Arab Islamic states in how to blend modern and traditional, religious and secular.
Thanks Witan,
in a futile attempt to keep Will L amused (rather like frightening natives by giving them mirrors) here is the uncyclopedia on a few British politicians -
http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Menzies_Campbell
http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Brown
http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/Tony_Blair
http://uncyclopedia.org/wiki/UnCameron
(continued separately so as not to include too many links)