The political blogger of the year of Labour
August 1st, 2007
My nomination - Paul Linford
From the moment that West Bromwich MP, the unlovely Tom Watson, visited Gordon, Sarah and family at their Fife home during the first week of September the 2006/07 political year has been dominated by one subject - the Labour succession.
For from that meeting Watson went on to resign his ministerial position apparently threatening a whole wave unless Tony stood down. It was unsubtle, it was brutal but it was highly effective.
We then went onto to all the machinations as one contender after another was proposed as somebody who could challenge Gordon. As a side show we had the deputy leadership race and then Gord’s team managed to block any challenge for the big job. Since taking over on June 27th he has had a dream start and now all the pressure in on Cameron.
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The blogger who has provided more insightful analysis during this period has been Paul Linford - who topped it all to seal my nomination with a series of throughly enjoyable posts during July on Alastair Campbell’s memoirs. It has become a must read. If you haven’t seen them it is well worth going through his archives.
Paul does not post everyday and does not stick to politics which is no bad thing. What he has done has been to maintain an enormous consistency of high quality posting which has put his site at the top of my daily “must see” list.
For me the key elements of a good blog are that it should provide new information or insights on political events that are not available elsewhere. I’m not really interested in opinions unless there is an originality which makes you look at things differently.
Iain Dale is re-doing his political blog of the year and is asking for submissions by August 15th. A book is due out in September. To put forward your list with a maximum of 1 - 20 click here.
Mike Smithson
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I agree wholeheartedly, in my opinion he’s head and shoulders above the other labour blogs. He goes well beyond the petty insularity of other party supporter’s blogs too and others should take note.
What is surprising is the lack of comments on his site as opposed to blogs on the right, where are the labour supporters?
Tom Watson is not unlovely he is just a bit of an acquired taste and his blog is lively if a little on the partisan side just a shame not many other MPs have time to do the same. Not sure I would categorise Paul Linford as a Labour blogger, Labour sympathising maybe.
In my opinion the outstanding political blog of this year has to be the Daily Mail’s Ben Brogan, notwithstanding his own political views he manages to be just about the best informed source of news on politics irrespective of which party.
No doubt someone will point out that I also voted for you at No 1, Mike - but I’m genuinely, and hugely, honoured to receive such a nomination!
I have to be honest and confess that for all my supposed insightfulness, the succession race did not turn out at all as I expected. I was convinced Gordon would be challenged, even if it was a kamikaze challenge from the likes of Clarke or Milburn. In the end, it seems I underestimated the power of that Big Clunking Fist to close down all opposition!
re 2. I don’t think that journalists in the mainstream media should be part of this. Ben Brogan does his blog as part of his job. I agree, however, with your comments about his qualities.
When I read Mike Smithson’s suggestion that Lembit Opik might be the Lib Dem candidate for London Mayor I thought it was ridiculous.
Then I read this today:
By Jack Doyle, PA Political Staff
The race for Mayor of London took a new twist today amid speculation Lembit Opik would run for the Liberal Democrats.
The Montgomeryshire MP is probably best known for his relationship with Gabriela Irimia, one half of Romanian pop duo the Cheeky Girls, and his interest in asteroids.
His potential candidacy was floated today by a senior aide to party leader Sir Menzies Campbell.
Ed Davey, who is Sir Menzies’s chief of staff, said Mr Opik would make a “much better mayor” than incumbent Ken Livingstone or his main potential rival, Boris Johnson.
Mr Davey told ePolitix.com: “Lembit is a good friend of mine, I share an office with him, and if he decided to run he would certainly make one of the most interesting candidates in the race.”
“Would Lembit make a good mayor? I think that Lembit would make a much better mayor than Boris Johnson or Ken Livingston,” he added.
After being told of Mr Davey’s comments, Mr Opik refused to rule himself out, said he was “flattered” to be spoken of as a candidate, and said he would speak to Sir Menzies today.
He said: “It’s ever so flattering. If I was a London MP I would stand like a shot. The only issue is my constituency is 205 miles away.
“I think I might go and have a chat with the boss to see what’s going on.
“The momentum seems to be developing a life of its own.
“Me, Boris and Ken would be a splendid contest. It would get a lot of interest and get the public voting as well.”
If Mr Opik were to enter the race, and Mr Johnson, as seems likely, secures his party’s nomination, it would pit three of Westminster’s great political eccentrics against each other.
Interesting that your definition of a good blog, Mike, is the same as Guido’s!
Hang on a minute… has anyone ever seen Mike and Paul La-Di-Dah Staines in the same room at the same time? I think we should be told the truth!
Gotta be snowflake - exciting, topical and above all impartial.
Re 3, Paul, “I have to be honest and confess that for all my supposed insightfulness, the succession race did not turn out at all as I expected. I was convinced Gordon would be challenged, even if it was a kamikaze challenge from the likes of Clarke or Milburn. In the end, it seems I underestimated the power of that Big Clunking Fist to close down all opposition!”
*Cough* I got taht one right!
Mike, I am heart broken that you don’t have me down as one of your favorite bloggers
I would comment on Paul’s blog, alas I don’t as yet read it, something that I should perhaps rectify, as I have come across some aweful Labour blogs..
O/T Defection alert - ‘Whole of UKIP Branch Defects to the English Democrats’, visit http://www.englishdemocrats.org.uk/ in news section. Just shows how English nationalism is gaining from the collapse of British nationalism.
francis - tell that to the bnp.
5 ‘The only issue is my constituency is 205 miles away.’
Just a minor issue then?
That and the complete lack of any credibility.
Paul I listened to your webcast on the by elections which was measured and fair. I wish you all the best in coming second both in the political blogs contest and in the GE. Can’t say fairer than that!
Hats off to Mike for his intel on Opik Lembit. It’s still a daft idea and is surely incompatible with representing Montgomery. I suspect he knows that but is happy to go along with the publicity.
Sorry meant Lembit Opik. Saw the error just too late!
10. There are two nationalist movements in England - British nationalism led by the BNP and civic English nationalism led by the English Democrats. UKIP are splitting down the middle with supporters joining either the BNP or the English Democrats dependent upon whether they class themselves as British or English. More people class themselves as English now.
Re 5, Richard H, I wonder if they did not get the idea from here?
Re 6, Eddie “Hang on a minute… has anyone ever seen Mike and Paul La-Di-Dah Staines in the same room at the same time? I think we should be told the truth!”
*cough* Mike for a small fee I can confirm you are not Guido
14 The English Democrats poll about the same vote as the Loonies.
9 shouldn’t that read “Whole of ‘A’ UKIP Branch defects”
So, what are we looking at? 1 ruddy nosed sheep hair coarser and his dog? Hardly news.
That said, UKIP is toilet bound. A return of UKIP supporters to Conservatives, that be interesting.
Sean F
Yes but what’s been the swing from the loonies to the english democrats since 2005; one of the most underrated political indicators surely.
17 and 18 I think the English Democrats yearn for the glory days when they actually had an MP - John Stonehouse.
They don’t really even come into the category of “minor party.” “Vanity Party” would be a better description.
Reading the other thread, there were a few comments along the lines of why would Gordon go for an early election unless he could be sure of a majority. That was my thinking, (and hence why I think the 5/1 on Brown leaving office in 2010 is good value).
However, what if Brown views the next election primarilly as an opportunity to finally put a stake in the Conservative Party as a party of government. Arguably he would then want to go to the polls as soon as he thought there was a likelihood of the Tories not winning enough seats to form a govt, even in coalition. As a bonus (from his perspective) if they got say 235 seats or fewer it would doubtless provoke all kinds of recriminations and even a split.
The downside would be that he would risk potentially having a minority government with LD/SDLP etc support, but in practical terms how much of Brown’s agenda would that impede ?
20 That would be very altruistic of Brown.
Whatever recriminations there might be within the Conservatives, after winning 235 seats, they would be nothing to the recriminations within Labour at having seen their majority go from 64 to zero.
Hear, hear. Paul Linford got my vote in Iain Dale’s survey thingymajig (as did Political Betting for that matter).
19: ‘17 and 18 I think the English Democrats yearn for the glory days when they actually had an MP - John Stonehouse.’
So Stonehouse defected the English Democrats while an MP - never knew that (not that I should). This, of course, can be added to his other achievements of faking his own death and getting an approving mention in Enoch’s ‘Rivers of Blood’ speech.
23 They called themsleves the English National Party in those days.
test
More rumour during silly season - Umpa Lempa (in Estonia tie) to run for Mayor
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/01/nopik101.xml
how would he fare without the cute Romanian in pictures…
5 - The only justification I can see for an Opik run for the mayoralty is that it would help stop the LD’s being completely overlooked in the media coverage of the race and hence possibly shore up their London Assembly vote on the same day. However it would be at the cost of keeping one of their most ridiculous and unlikeable figures in the spotlight (as well as presumably hurting his own vote in the next GE - unless the Lib Dems are trying to move him aside!). I’m sure the LDs realise they haven’t a hope of winning the mayoralty anyway, they must be focussing on other objectives like maximising London Assembly vote or building up profile for a London-based candidate.
27. Good news for the Conservatives - makes even Boris look like a serious candidate.
28 - What price a HIGNFY special edition during the election with Boris in the chair and Ken and Lembit on either team?
Jamie: You say Snowflake is impartial?? Are you being ironic?
30. Yes, I think he was being ironic. I think the giveaway is when he calls Snowflake ‘exciting’.
The Lembit story is (or should be) nonsense. What Davey actually said can be found at e-politix on http://www.epolitix.com/EN/Interviews/200708/80906798-c96f-481a-8f2f-6511b6ce9934.htm
‘Davey: Lembit is a good friend of mine - I share an office with him and if he decided to run he would certainly make one of the most interesting candidates in the race.
Would Lembit make a good mayor? I think that Lembit would make a much better mayor than Boris Johnson or Ken Livingstone.’
I’d call that damning with feint praise…
Re 30, MBoy, “Jamie: You say Snowflake is impartial?? Are you being ironic?”
Surely not
30. Snowflake is so obviously a Labour creation. If you look at the website “she” says ‘i voted LD last time but i have come home to Labour’ etc. I have not seen this on a blog anywhere else.
If you look at Benidicts for instance he will tell you why he is a Tory where as Snowflakes is all about the Labour party. Somebody said Snowflake was ED Balls. Certainly i think it someone from that camp.
Snowflake also said that Labour were Euro - Sceptics when they wanted to withdraw from the EEC as it was in the 80’s. In terms of definition the two are completly different. One is an abslote withdrawl the other is working with Europe but sticking up for your national interest.
Given the likely presence of 3 joke candidates for the Mayoralty from the mainstream parties, perhaps the Hartlepool Mayor (Hangus the Monkey) will feel he now has sufficient credibility to stand for election on the bigger stage?
He’d beat Lembit at least, surely?
My only Lembit story involves his other half and her sister.
Went to a company do, at which the Cheeky Girls were highered to entertain us.
Unfortunatly i think the crowd i was with had too many bitter shandies. All i remember was chanting “get your tit’s out!” and them obliging and storming off stage.
Should be a good support act for Opek - he can be the leader of the 5 tit’s (2×2+1=5!!!)
Did Lembit support Oaten?
Should Boris somehow win next year, there might be more mileage in Gordon hanging on till 2010. To see the most powerful Tory in the land make a complete balls-up of running one of the world’s biggest cities could prove a key factor in finishing off the Tories for good.
Perhaps Gordon should be backing Boris over Ken, like Blair backed Dobson over Ken?
34. A while back there was a rash of posters claiming to be ‘floating voters’ but who were put off voting Conservative by some of the Tory posters on this site. There is a lot of organised spinning on here now - what’s funny is how transparent it is.
12. and 13.
Perhaps i-like-to-b-mp should use a different anagram of his name each week.
16. and 18.
Bromley, 2006: ED 212, OMRLP 132
Southall 2007: OMRLP 188, ED 152
19. and 23. and 24.
The ENP which Stonehouse joined is completely different from the modern EDP.
39. It is funny! Plus very easy to spot. I presume these people are employed by the Labour party. Maybe a good reason for not having state funding!!!
This John Stonehouse chareter - Is it the same one who did a reggie Perrin?
Regarding stuff about Murdoch on the previous thread, he is on record as saying he tried to influence global public opinion to be pro the Iraq war.
Also, those who claim he isn’t ideologically biased, you should watch Fox News for a bit. It is the most extreme uber-rightwing propaganda I’ve seen. I once saw a subject under discussion “Has every civilization that accepted homosexuality fallen?” Not one person disagreed with the statement, let alone pointed out how logically ridiculous it was.
38. Perhaps Gordon should be backing Boris over Ken, like Blair backed Dobson over Ken?
The difference is Dobbo was a member of the Labour party where as Boris is a Tory.
I cannot imagine Labour MP’s going to assist Boris. It reminds me of that film the way Labour supporters act. Carry on up the khabor, in this situation the devils in skirts are the tories and Labour run a mile. I am begining to think that the only thing that defines Labour is they are not called Tories - Pointless party - pointless people
Re 43, TJM “Also, those who claim he isn’t ideologically biased, you should watch Fox News for a bit. It is the most extreme uber-rightwing propaganda I’ve seen. I once saw a subject under discussion “Has every civilization that accepted homosexuality fallen?” Not one person disagreed with the statement, let alone pointed out how logically ridiculous it was. ”
Can you think of any that haven’t?
That said there are of course some that did not that fell anyway, however what has happened in the past is that a civilisation gets to a state where it can ore than feed it self, gets comfortable, then gets licensuous (sic) and self absorbed, then gets over run.
Talking about Labour plants and Labour spin. I was watching Sky news at lunch time and they had an interview with a women who was really enthusitic about the energy Certificate and mentioned Brown introduing some VAT measure. Talk about cringe worthy!!!!
I think the only value in the HIP’s maybe the energy certificate. This is because a lender will not “trust” documentation or searches produced by the vendor. The house is the security for the loan and it does not take a genuis to work out, that the HIP’s could be used to defraud purchasers or the lender. Lender’s will insist on the purchaser get searchers and valuations done by someone agreeable to them otherwise they will not lend.
These HIP’s are just a waste of money.
On snowflake - you can link to her site on the side of this blog - I recommend it to everyone !
47. Yes i have looked at it! That’s where the comment at 34. came in.
Paul Linford is a must-read political blogger. He is educated, urbane and well-informed. But (like Nadine Dorries), he cannot be considered a top blog. Quality interaction must be a requirement of great blog? If that is accepted, then the top three blogs are those with the most pertinent comments. And Pb.com, Guido and Dale are streets ahead of the pack.
Oil prices at record high - cant be good for inflation/interest rates
See Lembit Opik says he will NOT run for London Mayor.
Beeb saying Opik will not run.
The political blogger of the year of Labour ???
Hmm, I didn’t even know that this was the year of Labour.
50. No it is a worry, the problem is the rest of the world is chugging away strongley and so it makes squeesing inflation even harder.
I am afraid there is quite a big chance of a slowdown and it could be quite painful as it could be a stagflation. Let’s hope not anyway as it would cause a lot of damage to people’s lives including moi!!!
37.”Did Lembit support Oaten?”
Martin yes, although he was free with his support and seemed keen to share it around as each of his choices fell. In fact I think his support was seen as a jinx by the end of the contest.
51. 52. 5.
Why doesn’t Davey himself have a go for it?
50 Somehow, Jamie, I have the impression you are not wholly displeased by the news you bring.
Punter, if you are about this news might be of interest.
Iain Dale plans to record another couple of programmes with Robert Waller.
http://iaindale.blogspot.com/2007/08/election-battlegrounds.html
Afternoon all :). It is potentially serious given that it is midsummer. Demand from China, India and elsewhere is keeping the price up and we must hope that it is not a cold winter in either Europe or North America as that will push demand further.
Re: 57 - Jamie is a Tory sympathiser, I suspect, Peter. I’m sure most thoughtful Conservatives don’t want the economy to go into recession as it would reduce their options too !!
As a London LD I’m delighted that Lembit isn’t going to stand. Apart from CK, who would have other issues to deal with, no LD has the media profile of either Boris J. or Ken. I thought Susan Kramer did a good trip in 2000 - if it were down to me, I think Lynne Featherstone would be the candidate but it’s not…
59
stodge, surely it’ time to ask Emma Freud toorun for the LD’s use your influence, ‘cos I’ve had the hots, (don’t tell the wife) for her for years.
Stodge.
Any chance of Pantsdown being tempted to stand? He ran Bosnia for a couple of years and made a pretty good job of it..
49. I’m a huge fan of Iain Dale, but the comments on there aren’t up to much. It’s too often taken over by right-wing nutcases or partisan lefties sniping.
14. francis - You’ve forgotten Yorkshire nationalism and on today of all days!
63. And a well timed comment, as I’ve just (briefly) logged on for the first time since this morning. Happy Yorkshire Day to you too, and to any other Yorkshire folk reading. Even to Mike, who might be a Lancastrian, but runs a super website (and Lancastrians can always take comfort in the fact that though they’re from the wrong side of the Pennines, they are at least from a county worthy of a rivalry).
Re: 60 & 61: Hmm…I don’t know Emma Freud, certainly not in the way Coldstone would like to it seems. If she were prepared to do it, she would be a welcome contrast to Bozza & Ken, the Mayoral Men.
As for Paddy, bringing peace to an area riven by internal conflict between ethnic and social groups…well, he managed it in Bosnia but I don’t know about London. I think I would prefer a candidate with a more definite connection to and with the city.
Seriously Emma Freud, would make a superb candidate for the Libdems, surely some one must have approached her? What a CV, Well known to Londoners, daughter of a very high profile onetime Liberal MP, her brother is married to Rupert Murdoch’s daughter, her partner is Richard Curtis, what more could you want?
66.
” a very high profile onetime Liberal MP”
Makes a change from the two-timin’ MPs (of all colours). Their allegiance to their parties is probably a little greater than to their wives but not much. No, I know you can’t tar them ALL with that brush - but more than enough.
coldstone @66 re Emma Freud — “what more could you want?”
A platform? Suppose she wins? Unlike standing for parliament, whoever gets most votes will actually have to run the show.
What does Emma want to do for London? Likewise Boris?
Stodge.
In a way we’re all Londoners; it’s our capital city. Paddy’s got no less of a link with London than Boris; I’m sure they’ve both got a London base! Paddy’s still got good name recognition and he’s always been an excellent campaigner. Maybe he feels he owes his wife to spend lots of time with the grandchildren but if he was prepared to stand I think he’d be a very credible candidate.
Still It’s your Party, not mine!
who is Emma Freud?
Re Emma Freud - holed below the waterline as a London candidate as pointed out on here the other night:
“Ooh me Emma Freuds arn arff playing up”
She’ll bomb round Bow Bells and all parts saaf a th’river.
70: ‘who is Emma Freud?’
Pop DJ. Great grand-daughter of Sigmund (really).
Andrea. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Freud.
The daughter of former LD MP Clement Freud. I don’t know whether she’s an LD herself
70 Andrea. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Freud
Guido has more on Mr Miraj - was approached by NuLab to defect..
Andrea:
Daughter of Clement Freud - latterly known as a panelist on R4 comedy shows previously a Liberal MP.
Great-grandaughter of Sigmund who… we we all know who he was!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emma_Freud
http://www.jla.co.uk/ArtistsIndex/Artists/2/12/FreudEmma1.asp?Letter=
If the Lib Dems are looking for a female mayoral candidate with a Liberal heritage, why not Helena Bonham-Carter? Makes about as much sense as Emma Freud.
Alternately, how about trying to persuade Shami Chakrabarti to stand?
75. “Mr Miraj - was approached by NuLab to defect.. ”
Hardly a big deal any more. After all they all stand for the same thing (nothing much at all). The Tories would have gone into Iraq and Labour might just have pretended to opposed it. Tories would have brought in ID cards and Labour would have opposed it. All playing the game but no principles at all. Can you imagine the Tories in government being any different over Guantanamo Bay? Over penal policy? Over the death of Menendez? Over the CSA? (dither dither dither dither dabble dabble dither dither).
Same NHS policies, same education policies, same taxation policies, (complete lack of actually) housing policies. Same centralisation of government with rhetoric spun the other way. Same basic attitude to the environment (a bloody nuisance really but good for photo-opportunities). Same attitude to community cohesion (sit tight, say warm words and pray - in as many directions as possible). Same suits, same ties, same haircuts. . .
71 Not so, Robin. The correct terminology is:
Farmers = Farmer Giles = Piles
or Chalfonts = Chalfont St Giles = Piles
A cockney would be unlikely to know what haemoerrhoids are, and Emma Freud would be a complete mystery.
77.
“how about trying to persuade Shami Chakrabarti to stand? ”
I would very much like to persuade Shami C. Whether she would want to stand after the persuasion . .
Robusticus, Blue Moon, Disraeli, Robin Wiggs…many thanks!
58 - good programmes. Ideal warm up for Big Brother….
79 PtP - as always I bow to your superior knowledge (
)- and I seem to remember there may be a bit of cockney about you?
I blame Coldstone, when he posted at 52 here the other night:
http://politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2007/07/30/could-lembit-solve-mings-london-problem/
79 - never knew about Chalfonts… but then most of my rhyming slang knowledge comes from Mo on Eastenders!
83 Plenty of people glad to have a bit of Cockney in them, Robin.
PtP - even you! It’s all a bit Sid James on here tonight…
77
Helena Bonham-Carter not bad! not too sure about Shami she giggles a lot!
For the Libdems someone associated with politics, but not part of the machine would be ideal, that’s why I think Emma would be the biscuit, media savvy, articulate, connections the whole business. and who else could claim to have rhyming slang credibility, ‘got a touch of the Emma’s, know what I mean’ I rest my case.
Coldstone.
Alternatively you could refer to a ‘right pain in the khyber’ ( khyber pass) or a right pain in the tijuana brass if you fancy a bit of modern.
Perhaps PB should start a campaign to get her to run, quite a feather in the site’s cap, if it was successful, how amazing if she won, Mike would get a peerage, and he wouldn’t even have to pay for it!
86 LOL! But I have to confess to being a bit of a fraud.
People born in Hackney are generally accepted as cockney, but it’s a very big borough and even at the Shoreditch end you would need good ears to hear Bow Bells, located in Cheapside. Hackney Hospital, where I was born, is at the eastern extremity, near Hackney Marshes and adjacent to Leyton. You would need very good ears and the wind in the right direction to hear the bells from there.
Perhaps though ‘cockney’ is a state of mind….in which case I definitely qualify.
This political blogger is unfriendly stealing feather from LibDem. (9)
Obama dipping his toes into Foreign affairs, I think that this type of rhetoric might back up Hilary Clintons opinion about his political skills?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6926663.stm
Where does paddy live these days? Did he keep on the London house when he left the Commons? I can’t see him wanting the hassle to be honest. Losing detracts from his career and if he won he’d actually have to run the place! I still think the only people it makes sence for are Lib Dem PPC’s/MP’s wanting to raise a profile. Featherstone isn’t doing the national rubber chicken circuit like Clegg/Huhne so it would keep hope of a leadership bid alive. Teather has had awful boundry changes. She’d benefit from the publicity. However is the killer is the speculation about an early election. NO MP,PPC will want to do it if they have to defend there seat the same day.
We are shafted really.
88 Some deprecate the use of ‘modern’ cockney rhyming slang. I’m not one. It’s a living idiom and it moves on. I find ‘Britney’ [Spears] just as colorful as the more traditional ‘ginger’ [beer].
I prefer Khyber to Tijuana simply for its brevity and humour, not pedigree.
Sometimes it’s possible to detect generational changes through the preferred rhyme. Thus, I have been acquainted through the stages of my life with the onanistic practice referred to by the denizens of the East End as, successively, ‘Sherman’s’ [tank], J Arthur [Rank], Jodrell [Bank] and more latterly Merchant [Bank(er)].
What I do find irksome is the way some people overuse this type of slang. True cockneys, in my experience, use it sparingly. It can then be very effective, as a way of adding emphasis, color, or humor. ‘Cor, it got me right in the Orchestras!’ [Orchestra stalls = balls] seems a good example.
Simply littering speech continously with examples seems to me vulgar, false and designed only to indicate the user’s knowledge of this quaint idiom.
Properly used, it can be charming and amusing. Overused, it becomes a bore.
Peter the P
Beautifully paragraphed if I may say so.
Peter. Agreed. Some of the more original and imaginative examples of Cockney rhyming slang are very funny. Not that can think of one now. I was amused by your Chalfont St Giles!
Re my 91.
It appears to be rather unfriendly. Not intended. It is another, occasional, crossword clue which includes the thread theme and some of the previously immediate blogging.
I will explain if anyone is interested, or if anyone is not, before retiring to bed.
94. When I was in prison (yes yes…) I was introduced to the idea of double cockney rhyming slang - slang twice removed from its source. Or even further….
The word for tobacco, for instance, was “salmon”.
So you would say: Got any salmon, mate? (i.e. got any cigarettes or baccy)
This came from the rhyming slang “salmon and trout”, rhyming slang for “snout” - snout meaning tobacco, because prisoners used to rub their noses to disguise tobacco fumes.
How complex is that?
Even weirder is “bacon”. Prison slang for kiddie-fiddler. From “bacon-bonce” = nonce. Nonce itself is possibly from nancy boy. Nancy boy itself possibly comes from the 18th century English “nancy” meaning buttocks.
Etc etc etc!
95 LOL!
I’ve been studying the posts of SeanT, PB’s Principal Practitioner of Perfect Paragraphing.
97 Doubles are rare, Sean. I can only think of one in common use - Aris = Aristotle = Bottle and glass = ar*e.
Prisons, I should think, are bound to produce their own weird variants.
The same is true of race-tracks, where you come across the odd example of backslang [ neves = 7, rouf = 4] as well as specialised rhyming slang, such as Burlington Bertie [100/30].
It’s an entertaining if utterly trivial subject.
Sean T. I asked my wife, who has only recently become a keen, and is now an avid book reader, to include your famous novel amongst her “3 for 2″ bargain choice from Waterstones. She chose George Orwell’s 1984 over your work, arguing that she had already chosen 2 easy books!
I was disappointed.
I am attempting John Updike’s first “Rabbit” book at present. Worth the effort in your’s or other’s opinion?
94. “Some deprecate the use of ‘modern’ cockney rhyming slang. I’m not one” - nor me, though it’s far from my native tongue. There was a report recently about how we’re gaining a genuinely national language as TV and radio kills off regional dialects (or occasionally, develops them into national ones). It’s therefore great to see one thriving, and the best sign of that is its continued development.
99. Mind you, accents make a difference too. It took me a moment to realise that some people do rhyme ‘glass’ with ‘ars*’ as opposed to mass.
96 Chalfonts is quite a common and traditional piece of r.s. It amuses me too; not sure why.
Sometimes it’s the rhythm of the words that appeals. Borassic lint, for example, sounds so much more poetic than just plain skint.
Can’t work out your clue. Enjoy crosswords, despite not being good at them.
How did the racing work out for you today? Finish up borassic?
Tell me tomorrow.
99. Yes, prison slang is a bit like military slang, I imagine (never having been in the army, though having been in chokey) - men closely confined will become ever more creative in their invention of slang. More so than in normal life.
Incidentally, there must be a reason why men, as compared to women, tend to devise more slang. Or maybe it’s just that men are more often confined in single-gender institutions.
Who knows, the women of Taliban Kabul may well have had an enormous vernacular all their own. And I say that non-facetiously.
100. *sob*
Still, there are worse writers to lose to than Orwell!
Updike is good. But a rather rich and cloying style, maybe. I used to really like him, now I’m not so sure.
In fact I’m slowly coming round to, yes, George Orwell’s nostrum that good prose should, style wise, be a window pane - invisible, and revealing only of the meaning.
I’m reading ‘The Lore of the Land’ at the moment, a compendium of English legends, myths and superstitions. Voluminous and exhaustive - but fascinating. Highly recommended.
101 Yes the influence of TV and radio is interesting. I notice that r.s. is sometimes used in regions far removed from London, sometimes without any awareness of its origins.
I wonder how many people watching The Sweeney were aware of the reference to Sweeney Todd = Ghost Squad (itself an anachronistic reference to a long defunct division of the Met Police.)
And next time you call somebody a berk, remember it comes from Berkshire Hunt = cu*t.
If they know the derivation, they may not be too happy.
103 That is surely correct, Sean. R.S. was very common in the great markets of London - Billingsgate, Smithfield etc. - but it also seems to thrive in any workplace where there is a strong communal environment. I learned most of mine working in a garage, where nobody rode in anything but a jam jar, and people got the tin tack for telling a manager to get cattle trucked.
If you didn’t use the vernacular, you were likely to be perceived as a bit of an outsider. Maybe that was its primary purpose.
103 (Again)
Not sure I agree with that. I find I have become increasingly conscious and appeciative of style.
Who wrote the Legends book? Or is it a Compendium?
Night all. Time for a Bo peep.
Re my 91.
Coldstone argued that
PB.com should campaign for Emma Freud, a non-declared LibDem to be their candidate for London Mayor and that if the PB campaign for her was successful then PB should win a feather in it’s cap.
So I described Coldstone as
“This political blogger is unfriendly stealing feather from LibDem”.(9).
Which also works as a crossword clue.
This political blogger _ Coldstone
is
Unfriendly- Cold
Stealing feather from LibDem- (Feather)stone.
(Lynne Featherstone).
Solution. Coldstone(9).
I have to say that this site is often even more interesting when we get off the subjects of politics or betting (or even rarely, betting on politics!)
The accumulated knowledge of regular posters on subjects as diverse as the celtic diaspora, and the merits of modern rhyming slang versus “double” prison slang, is a joy to behold.
I have to ask, Sean, and I know it’s an indelicate question an Englishman should never ask nor expect to be answered; but what were you banged up for? Besides being caught and convicted, clearly!
106. PtP.
Westwood and Simpson wrote the Lore of the Land. It is a bit turgid in places, but wonderfully rich, too.
On style, don’t get me wrong - I still appreciate it. And there is probably no such thing as prose without style - it’s like prose without syntax, an oxymoron.
But…. I guess as I get older I just prefer the lighter, less obtrusive styles. I now think P G Wodehouse, for instance, was a vastly superior writer to Evelyn Waugh. When I was a lad I would have said the opposite. Waugh had a fine style, but Wodehouse is just so funny, and his prose so readable, and his plots so deft, his style obtrudes less (yet it exists).
Even weirder, I think the Da Vinci Code is a much better book than anything by, say, Zadie Smith.
As for Orwell, he could write brilliantly. In one of his early books he describes a fire as looking like “red holly” - a superb visual analogy.
But as he got older he felt he had so much to say, the flowery stuff got in the way. So he ditched it. And he ended up the most important English writer of the 20th century. Maybe the most important writer in any language since World War 2.
Anyhow, I’m waffling now - without much style either. Time to ride a camel to Bedistan.
Guten nacht!
108 StJohn. I tried solving your clue ( I love puzzles) but got nowhere.
After you explained it, the answer seemed so obvious that I now feel thoroughly stupid!
(of course, it always seems obvious, once you have the answer)
SeanT
It would be a pleasure to hear more of your views on style, literature, and English 20th century literature. Maybe it’s time we met up for another beer.
I’ll buy, if you promise not to mention the EU.
109. Fair question. However, I hesitate to tell you on here, not out of any guilt or shame (I was innocent, and acquitted - and I’ve written countless articles on my experience) - but because I have been accused, on this site, of somehow revelling in my infamy!
Just Google the words “Sean Thomas” and, say, “Scrubs” and you will soon find out.
And with that, I really am off to bed. Ciao.
108 Of course. Now why didn’t I think of that?
Sean T. My initial impression on Updike is similar to your current one. Extremely clever but not easy or illuminating.
The best writer of prose I have encountered is Bertram Russell who completely meets your Orwell dictum. I find him effortless and entertaining to read.
113 Sean.
Ah, I remember the discussions on here now - surprised I forgot. For a while I had visions of you having throttled a Eurocrat you met on the train mid-way under the Chunnel…
109. I have to ask, Sean, and I know it’s an indelicate question an Englishman should never ask nor expect to be answered; but what were you banged up for? Besides being caught and convicted, clearly!
Just in case Sean has fallen asleep already, it should be pointed out that he was only in prison on remand before trial, and was then found not guilty.
109 Very true, Robin.
I recall idly musing late one night about the implications of Scottish Independence for the UK’s network of International Tax Treaties. Soon I found myself in debate with a historian and a Professor of Law. It’s a subject I thought I knew a bit about (basically it’s my day job) but I quickly realised they knew more.
It was a fascinating debate and I learned a bit, but I’m really glad I didn’t start shooting the breeze. They’d have shredded me.
107 Night, Blue Moon.
Put the cat out, and don’t forget to lock the Rory O’Moore.
111. Thanks Disraeli.
You probably recall you were the subject of my previous PB crossword clue, in your previous incarnation.
Small bright gem.(9). Solution, Gladstone.
I promised not to post another one until the August Bank Holiday but I may well be away then so thought I’d get one in, just in case.
Night all - I’m off up the apples & pears to my garden shed.
StJohn
I’m at Sandown tomorrow and I shall be speaking to a couple of my racing chums before I go. Should have some decent suggestions. Feel free to ring me.
Do you still have the mobile number?
Re 64, David “63. And a well timed comment, as I’ve just (briefly) logged on for the first time since this morning. Happy Yorkshire Day to you too, and to any other Yorkshire folk reading. Even to Mike, who might be a Lancastrian, but runs a super website (and Lancastrians can always take comfort in the fact that though they’re from the wrong side of the Pennines, they are at least from a county worthy of a rivalry).”
Wheras I come from Sussex where the Iron masters come from, we built this country from our Iron and our trees!
(Weeding in West Sussex involves chainsaws and axes)
121 Nite Robin. And it’s Uncle [Ned] for me too.
Night Johnboy. Night Jimbob.
Night all!
Thanks Peter. I do still have your mobile number but after today’s close but expensive miss in the “Sussex”, I’m leaving the horses for a while.
When you’ve got used to winning on betting,(political), then losing is very annoying! I will look out for anything you post her but my racing bets are now quite infrequent.
All the best.
Re 90, Peter the Punter “People born in Hackney are generally accepted as cockney, but it’s a very big borough and even at the Shoreditch end you would need good ears to hear Bow Bells, located in Cheapside. Hackney Hospital, where I was born, is at the eastern extremity, near Hackney Marshes and adjacent to Leyton. You would need very good ears and the wind in the right direction to hear the bells from there.
Perhaps though ‘cockney’ is a state of mind….in which case I definitely qualify.
”
On the other hand you could get me to stand at Bow, and call, and it could be within the sound of Big Ben’s call at Bow bells.
I did about 3/4 of a mile at age 9 from the edge of the rec on long lane (from Croydon to Grenwich via penge) to the middle of Lower Addiscombe Road during the day.
My call was heard, and no I can shout over distance still.
re 94, Peter the Punter, Beer Beer
re 101, David Herdson “99. Mind you, accents make a difference too. It took me a moment to realise that some people do rhyme ‘glass’ with ‘ars*’ as opposed to mass.”
We live south of Watford
Just to add - late in the day - Mr. Watson is far from “unlovely”.
Re 105, Peter the Punter “103 That is surely correct, Sean. R.S. was very common in the great markets of London - Billingsgate, Smithfield etc. - but it also seems to thrive in any workplace where there is a strong communal environment. I learned most of mine working in a garage, where nobody rode in anything but a jam jar, and people got the tin tack for telling a manager to get cattle trucked.”
Round these ere parts ‘en all, you might get the Spanish archer and face the long walk!
I love slang!
re 108, STJohn, Interesting,,,
I just don’t do crosswords! Very good though.
Re 112, Peter the Punter, if we could organise it I have £20 in the PB.com bank for a get together and I would quite like that too.
130 - re ‘Johnnie Byrne’
“No Love for Johnnie by Wilfred Fienburgh, was first published in 1959 by Huchinson. Essentially a political novel it deals with the life of Johnnie Byrne, a cynical and burnt-out politician whose career has ostensibly stalled due to his leftist leanings in a “conservative” Labour government.”
Surely not.
134. “No Love for Johnnie by Wilfred Fienburgh”
Well worth a read - author was Labour MP for Islington North till death aged 38 in a car crash in 1958.
I certainly included Paul’s name, as well as nominating your site. You may also be pleased to know that politicalbetting.com is very popular with MPs I surveyed recently about their favourite political blogs.