Will either be as good as Vince Cable?
November 15th, 2007
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Watch Chris and Nick do what Gordon never had to
One thing that having contested leadership elections means, Parliamentary Labour Party members please note, is that the rivals get invited onto Question Time for a special leadership debate.
This can be a defining moment of a campaign and both Huhne and Clegg will have been training hard to ensure that they come over best.
For Huhne, the betting outsider and the man who has still not been forgiven by the party establishment for running against Ming last time, this could be his best chance. He needs to do very well this evening.
Clegg, who has been reported to have been less sure-footed in the hustings, simply has to ensure that the so-called better presentation skills that his supporters say he possesses, show through clearly.
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There’s been a lot of edge between the two men during the campaign and there might just be fireworks.
The one thing that tonight will probably show is that neither of the contenders is as good as Vince Cable who has been doing a brilliant job in the acting slot.
Wouldn’t it be great if there was a QT debate like this at the general election? Alas Brown is not going to agree - he didn’t get where he is today taking such risks.
Thank you to all those who contributed to last night’s thread about my future plans. I’ve got a number of thoughts which we’ll return to in the New Year.
Mike Smithson
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Ironically, for LibDems this debate might not be very useful.
The Prime Minister has to answer questions in the House, and also has to make a case for his espoused policies. Likewise the Leader of the Opposition (whose questions are more likely to come from political interviewers).
The LibDem leader has to do neither, aside from tonight.
The LibDem leader’s job is to enunciate one or two big ticket policy items that clearly differentiate the party from its bigger rivals, and to appear affable on as many afternoon chat shows and comedy quiz programmes as will have him. The Question Time format really is not relevant. Sorry, LibDem activists, but there it is.
The problem that Lib Dems face, Mike, is that both are excellent - as is Vince Cable too.
I wonder - writing well before this evening’s event - if PBC contributors would like to estimate how high the Lib Dem percentage will be in the next opinion polls….
But it will be useful to Lib Dems, John (1), in helping to make a very difficult choice between two outstanding candidates.
“the man who has still not been forgiven by the party establishment for running against Ming last time”
Translation: “The man who is not forgiven for opposing the lemmings who backed the Lib Dems into a two year cul-de-sac and who are now backing. . . .?
Tressage @ 3 — helpful but misleading: that’s the point. Members need to see how each will do on Loose Women or Have I Got News For You?
I know this is off topic but I am infuriated by the report that,”Ferrari has warned that Formula 1’s reputation may be damaged if Kimi Raikkonen loses his 2007 drivers’ world title in the court room.”
Ferrari didn’t say this when a court handed them the constructors’ title. It is increasingly clear to me that Ferrari don’t race they politic.
It will be good to see. For the LDs the best outcome is Chris wins this time. For the Conservatives and Labour the best outcome is Nick wins as there is a good chance of major LD losses (20+) at the next GE and the Leader will get the blame and be fatally damaged. Chris will probably be too old next time, whilst Nick will not. So I am hoping Nick wins.
Clegg is Cameron to Huhne’s Blair, it sometimes seems to me.
Huhne has that invaluable gift of sounding as if he is answering the question he’s been asked, even when he isn’t.
Clegg seems friendlier, even nicer, but as with Cameron in his early heir-to-Blair period, you can be left wondering quite what he wants to do.
A revised repeat of my earlier post wiped out for some reason!
Huhne has the edge - he’s got a thought out set of policies and as the outsider nothing to lose. Clegg (who really does look Dutch in the photo above) has been too careful and adverse to risk. He doesn’t bear comparison to Cameron who both had better presentation skills but also said he’d change the party, he didn’t appeal to the core interests but to their realisation that he’d be disruptive but in the end successful. Clegg is steady the ship but with a prettier face than Ming - so what?
3: If Huhne is such an ‘outstanding candidate’ how did he end up losing to Ming Campbell?
9 - I don’t agree. Huhne wants to appeal to the centre left core of activists. Clegg is undoubtedly more to the right. This makes him a little more edgy than Huhne in the LDs.
9 LOL!
Ted, how exactly do you look Dutch?
I think they’re both talented, as is Cable. The Lib Dems certainly have a better set of options than either of the other two parties would have if their respective leaders fell under a bus. I actually think Clegg is weaker than most Lib Dems realise. Cameron is often panned as being without depth, but if you actually look into his speeches to activists, rather than something where he’s going for the headline soundbite, you’ll find he has substance.
I just don’t see this with Clegg, who just seems to give very long answers filled with nice themes but doesn’t sound like he’s saying much. As someone said above, Huhne has the knack of saying something without giving away anything.
I also think both leaders will move their party to the right economics-wise: its just Clegg will be openly arguing his case while Huhne will attach a rightwars shift with leftwards rhetoric.
6- your post is incredibly partisan. Everybody (except apparently in the UK) knows that the FIA tried with all its might to give the championship to Hamilton.
They deprived Alonso of his fair chance to win the championship (ruling on an intra-team matter for the first time ever), they created the very weak “penalization of cars but not drivers” rule to keep hamilton’s title hopes alive…
Now Ron Dennis and Hamilton basically ask for a title they were not able to gain on the track, no matter how much they cheated… They have no shame!
I sincerely hope their claim is rejected.
Disclaimer: I am not and never have been a Ferrari fan. I am a Mac Laren fan ever since Alain Prost was there in the 1980ies BUT i know how to recognize when my favourite team lies and cheats.
12. By looking like this: http://www.fcbarcelonaonline.com/rdeboer1.jpg
Having spent a lot of time in the US, with its more varied gene pool, I become acutely aware of the “looks” of various European peoples when I travel round Europe. The English have a typical facial structure too.
On the betting front, on Betfair there does seem to be rather a lot of money on offer for Clegg around the 1.35 level. In contrast, Huhne is around 3.80, but there is not so much money available.
Obviously, the odds are saying that Clegg is the favourite. But can somebody interpret for me the amount of money? Does it signify anything?
14 But Chris, you forget that Hamilton is a media darling. He’s hot favorite for the Sport Personality Of The Year [SPOTY] award here, despite the fact that he didn’t win the World Title (due in part to his spat with his ‘team-mate’) and no longer lives in the UK (largely for tax reasons, I believe).
15. I work in Norway. Funny, Norwegians do not look at all like George Chakiris who played a Norwegian resistance leader in ‘633 Squadron’.
15 Hey, that’s Dick van Clogg! I used to play football with him. He used to play for the Cat and Ferret.
I remember he got me sent off for nutting him. Seems to have recovered his good looks since.
17- I understand this factor (it must be important for Bernie Ecclestone and Max Mosley)and I fully recognize the talent of the guy.
However, the crazy bullying of Alonso by UK tabloid “journalists” and this kind of silly legal stunts to try to win back the title are hugely damaging Hamilton’s reputation among the drivers and in the general public outside the UK.
We should have gone for Vince Cable last time - and to my knowledge I was the only LD on here in January last year saying that.
But he was right not to stand this time; despite being highly competent, the media narrative is in the wrong place for him to make a strong start from.
Still can’t decide between the two who are running, so will watch QT later with interest.
Trying not to cast aspersions - but once again the betting seems a bit strange on the LD leadership markets - last time it was in Huhne’s interest to be seen as more of a favorite than he was - this time it is in his interest not to be favorite, to be the underdog…
“Clegg, who has been reported to have been less sure-footed in the hustings” - I thought he was the more sure-footed canditate at the hustings I was at and there were plenty of others who argreed with me but it is a bit like PMQs (and i have been Amazed at the partisan reporting on this site about PMQs) - people like who they like.
20. Alors! l’Albion perfide encore!
21 tpfkar. At least you Liberal Democrats have a choice (and an interesting one at that).
Labour supporters were denied a choice for their leader. They had to make do with the Deputy Leadership. Mind you, they got that wrong, so maybe they are not to be trusted. (Harperson, indeed! Harumph!)
23- As usual…
15 - it’s a bit stereotypical but I have noticed there are certain national characteristics in faces. If you are abroad, you can spot a Brit anywhere - in any climate - by a ruddy complexion. I can’t think of any other nationalities (apart from the Irish) who are so red. In Finland, I was even regarded as quite dark skinned.
There is a Dutch look, certainly. Face looks a little pushed in, upturned nose?
Hope I haven’t offended anybody… let’s celebrate our diversity - and our redness.
I wonder if Mike’s personal opinion on the leadership has changed - I know he was very open a few weeks ago about being unable to forgive Clegg for allowing Ming to be leader. This is still my opinion - I am finding it very difficult to forgive Clegg for this and feel Huhne must be applauded for his chutzpah last time. It’s surely exactly that kind of ambitious spirit that us LDs need thoughout the party and definately in the leadership. The 500 maj. thing is a bonus for me - he’d be the most dedicated LD in the country given what he’d lose.
When I am abroad, I often get taken for a Russian, SBS. I expect it is that they just don’t see that many Russians….
O/T Breaking news
Quentin Davies’ niece arrested for homicide in France
French police just announced that they have arrested Jessica Davies , 28 yrs old. She has handed herself to the police on Sunday for having killed with a knife a 24 y.o guy she picked up in a bar in St Germain en Laye (leafy western suburb of Paris)on staurday night.
She was described as “extremely drunk” and could not provide any explanation even when interrogated on the next day.
Chris(from Paris) @ 20 re Formula One. In fact, the commonly held conspiracy theory is that the FIA is biased towards Ferrari.
27 - “I am finding it very difficult to forgive Clegg for this and feel Huhne must be applauded for his chutzpah last time” - how are relations between the two men. Was there are POrtillo Redwood type spat?
“When I am abroad, I often get taken for a Russian, SBS. I expect it is that they just don’t see that many Russians…”
Bizarre. There are Russians everywhere these days. Do you have wonderful cheekbones?
25. Yeah, the Dutch often have a particular look round the eyes - I think its the eyebrows in a V-shape that does it.
I don’t think I have a “ruddy” look as such but my skin is pale and thus more obviously pink than those with darker complexions. I also have other English attributes: a long face (rather than round or square), a narrow but long and forward nose, and a soft, rounded chin.
Alas no, SBS. It must be the snow on my boots….
30- Well they were, during the long reign of Schumacher. But they need a new poster boy now. And Hamilton is just what they need: young, handsome, black, anglo-saxon… ideal!
No idea - they seem friendly enough, although Huhne has noticabley been going for the more personnal attacks - he’s got the will to succeed!
33 - ok pink perhaps. But those northern Europeans are certainly whiter - and less pink - than Brits.
Regarding physical stereotypes, many French people think of Prince Charles as their benchmark of British males.
I personnally think that my “English stereotype” is probably a cross of Jonny Wilkinson, Alan Shearer and Tim Henman.
The fact is when the UK political cycle moves rightwards as is currently happening the Lib Dems suffer. Witness poor results in 1970 and 1979. Clegg’s supporters are blaming this natural cyclical force on the failure of their left of centre policies of the last 3 elections and are seeking to take their party rightwards at least in terms of economic policy. Economic liberalism will be matched by a socially liberal stance in civil liberties, immigration etc.
Whether this stance will be popular with the public is far more questionable.
I know whomever the LibDems choose, he will be proven to be the wrong choice:-). They have form in that.
20 30 F1
Anyone who thinks most of F! is not “fixed” is imo naive. Remember that German chap who used to win all the races by shunting his competitors off the track. In any other sport he would have been banned for life.
F1 of course is not a sport. it’s a procession of extremely fast cars chased round the world by extremely fast wimmin. The cars only race occasionally to keep the public paying. After teh start it’s usually 90 minutes of extreme tedium and lots of noise. Makesadartsmatchlook xciting.
10 He wasn’t well known at the time to anyone who wasn’t either a hustings-attending activist or an inhabitant of the South East Euro region, hence his rubber-chickening over the last couple of years.
I thought it interesting that on the online forum last week which I read after the event Huhne was thought to have done well - this is a phenomenon many activists went through in the 05 election, coming out the hustings thinking “actually, that Huhne bloke’s rather good” - he did very well among these activists.
14 It’s well known that Ferrari get away with almost anything and other teams can’t. Though I would equally agree that Hamilton as a driver seems to have more luck than even Schumacher who managed to finish on the podium in a mere 60% of his races and complete only 80% of them.
Re. lying and cheating, seems a bit funny to me:
i) that the mechanic’s wife then took the document to a public photocopying machine (I mean, would you?)
ii) that the (presumably English) photocopier could recognise the wife of a McLaren back-room employee (most people wouldn’t even recognise the back-room employee, let alone his wife, and that’s even after all the publicity he’s now had as a result of the case let alone before)
iii) that the photocopier recognised that the possession of the documents must be unauthorised
iv) that the person (this is still someone working in a photocopying shop we’re talking about, not a Formula One engineer) was so confident about his diagnosis that he thought to make the effort to try to get in touch with Ferrari about it
v) that the person (still the photocopier) was able to get his message through to Scuderia Ferrari in a way that they would take seriously.
As a sequence of events I’ve heard of truth being stranger than fiction, but you just couldn’t make it up.
26 “There is a Dutch look, certainly. Face looks a little pushed in, upturned nose?”
Well Dick’s face certainly looked a little pushed in after I nutted him, although it seems to have recovered now.
And talking of nutters, where’s Ave It this evening? Who is to give us a calm, balanced appraisal of tonite’s performances by the two Liberal Democrat candidates on QT tonite, if PB’s most objective observer is away?
37. Agreed.
38. Well Charles has all the features we’ve listed: a certain pinkness, long face, long & narrow nose, rounded chin. I actually think there’s a slight difference between the North and the South. Us Southerners tend to have longer, softer faces (Charles, Wilkinson, Cameron) whereas Northerners tend to have broader faces with squarer jaws (Shearer, Hague).
Anyway, we should probably stop before some Aryan supremacist website links here.
40 Madasafish - Did you not proof read that post?
Or did somebody slip some gin in your tank?
38. Although I should say that Chirac is my stereotype for an older Frenchman, and either Bayrou or Platini for someone younger.
Apologies if it’s been posted before but Ben Brogan has a Blair slam on Brown:
“Two trivial distractions this afternoon from the task of decoding the Whitehall buzz on the 28-day extension business.
The PM’s unflappable spokesman at the 3.45 listing among the PM’s engagements his attendance, with Ed Balls, at the launch of an anti-bullying initiative. For some reason people in the room found it funny.
Tony Blair taking questions after a speech today. Questioner: “Do you think Gordon Brown has done a good job as Prime Minister?” TB: “Erm, yes. That’s all I’m saying otherwise I might get into trouble.”
40 - “I know whomever the LibDems choose, he will be proven to be the wrong choice:-). They have form in that.”
Not exactly. I’ll grant you Ming. Kennedy was probably better than Hughes/Bruce/Ballard/Rendell. Ashdown was better than Beith. Steel was better than Pardoe. And in a vote of MPs (all 12), Thorpe was better than Hooson and Lubbock.
But history may have been different but for a tragic car accident in December 1986. Surely Penhaligon would have become the first leader of the merged party.
Huhne is actually a good communicator. He nearly persuaded me (a Lib Dem euro-sceptic - don’t laugh there are a few of us) of the benefits of Europe at a Party dinner a couple of years ago by well-reasoned and detailed argument. I rather wish the membership would elect him but I suspect they will go for the more photogenic Clegg.
Test,
The reason the press found the anti bulling thing with Ed Balls funny is that he is such a bully, and many of them have been on the receiving end.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/15/nscot115.xml
o/t The Devolution piss take continues at speed.
That’s a seriously contemptuous remark by Tony Blair, in public to a press question. It must aggravate him watching statist Brown chuck his efforts down the pan.
“The economics man regards himself as the senior partner even though the two friends-turned-rivals entered Parliament at the same time.(…)You guessed it: Gordon Brown and Tony Blair in 1994. But history is repeating itself as Chris Huhne and Nick Clegg ”
http://comment.independent.co.uk/commentators/andrew_grice/article3
124275.ece
49. Hmmm yes Brown fits the bully bill rather well too, doesn’t he?
52-Sorry:
http://comment.independent.co.uk/commentators/andrew_grice/article3124275.ece
Last one out, turn off the lights
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/15/nemi115.xml
Brown’s a bully whereas Cameron is just fairly forthright with internal party discipline - right?
29. What a great catch Quentin Davies has proved for Labour. Another of Brown’s pathetic stunts backfires…
…imagine the hysterical rantings we would be being subjected to now by Roger, Tyson et al. if Davies were still a Conservative MP - ‘degenerate Tory toffs’ etc. Hilarious.
57 - “Another of Brown’s pathetic stunts backfires…” “imagine the hysterical rantings…”
Hilarious that you can be so hypocritical? The words pot and kettle spring to mind.
What the hell does what Mr Davies’ niece arrest got to do with anything, even with QD’s judgement, ability or career?
FWIW I do think the Lib Dems will benefit from the leadership contest, whoever wins.
It has (so far) been conducted in a similar spirit to the Cameron/Davis contest in 2005 and the public love to see that politicians can disagree in an adult fashion, based on differing intellectual argument, with mutual respect.
What I haven’t yet seen, except for Trident, is any serious policy debate going on (but then a. I’m not a Lib Dem and b. I haven’t been paying that much attention).
55 - I enjoyed the Telegraph piece. For those who didn’t click on the link, it was about how countries are having to cope with record numbers of people moving to live there, many of whom have no intention of working. Sadly Sir Andrew Green from MigrationWatch didn’t comment on whether these countries should adopt tougher immigration controls in order to keep out the influx of, erm, British nationals emigrating.
59. The role played by members in producing/voting on policy means it isn’t seen as good form to have major policy debates during a leadership election.
44
Sorry.
Disleksia strykes agane:-)
58. Nice to see the Lib Dems sticking up for their Labour chums again.
Just fair play, I think, Jeff.
59. maybe, except with one crucial difference… nobody cares. Id completely forgotten about it till a few days ago, and i follow politics!! the media havent reported it, the tv news hasnt reported it. no one is interested in the lib dems anymore. people want to see, and are interested in, the main event. Its like being at a festival. people stand around, listening to the support acts in the spirit of a festival, but really only waiting for the main act to come on stage. who do people remember when they leave? the main act.
63 - I’m not. I just hate “hysterical rantings”. Especially hypocritical ones.
59 FWIW I do think the Lib Dems will benefit from the leadership contest, whoever wins.
I agree and expect to see them at 18%-19% in the polls as a result. The real killer question is where that approx 4% of extra support will principally come from.
67 - I wish I agreed with you. Christmas is coming and the leadership election will not get so much coverage. And Parliament will be shut. 16-17% tops for the moment I think. Things may move up again by about March.
68 But the point is that the Great British Public always over react to political events/changes. Like for instance Brown, in achieving an 11% lead in the late summer as a result of ….well doing very little actually and then Cameron succeeding in wiping out this lead in just two weeks by offering a cut in IHT and speaking for an hour without notes at the Tory conference.
I’m certainly not saying that the Lib Dems will be able to maintain 18%-19%, but I expect them to reach that level.
68 I’m with PfP on this one SBS. In fact I would strongly recommend buying LD seats in the spread markets a bit sharpish, and definitely before the next polls are published.
You can currently buy at 49 with SI. That’s too low. The downside risk is negigible.
Or negligible even!
Any opinions on who is the better bet for LD leadership. Clegg 1.35 Huhne 3.8
Best bet is Huhne by a clear margin, although there have been no polls there is little suggestion that lib dem members are favouring one over the other and so the odds are out of kilter.
Whoever leads the Lib Dems, they can’t so anything about the 2 party politics that has developed. At the next election, it will be a real contest which floating voters will want to feel a part of.
Add to the fact that this leadership election is not really capturing the public imagination in the way Davis/Cameron did. It’s had little news airtime, and I’ll be interested in whether the rating are down on Question Time tonight. No one seems bothered.
72 There appears to have been a slight preference for Huhne on PB.com as well as from the hustings based on those who have reported here. It’s strange therefore that Huhne’s odds are 8 times those of his rival. Having said that, bookies have a strange knack of usually calling these things correctly.
75. Let’s not forget that Davis, Kerry, Gore, Portillo, Clarke, Benn were all favourites once. Kerry even shorter than Clegg.
74 Woody662 “Whoever leads the Lib Dems, they can’t so anything about the 2 party politics that has developed. At the next election, it will be a real contest which floating voters will want to feel a part of.”
I think that you are right, it looks that way at the moment, but a lot can change in two years.
Whoever is the LibDem leader really matters, because there is a greater possibility that he will be the kingmaker in a hung Parliament than at any time in the last 30-odd years.
In that case what the country needs is someone who will play fair by all sides. Whilst both Huhne and Clegg seem fundamentally decent, it seems to me that Huhne favours Labour more. (Or at least, Labour minus its authoritarian tendencies)
76 Indeed so, Woody - to which list we should add the name of Kinnock.
75. Yes, I backed Huhne at 4.0 on the assumption that he’d move in, in no small part due to the comments on here - though also because of his performance last time when he performed better than many might have expected.
While I didn’t really expect him to win - although I didn’t discount the possibility - my prime motivation was to lay off the bet later. That I have done, but at odds which are still a good deal longer than I thought he might move in to. Obviously, any profit is welcome, but his stickiness between 5/2 and 3/1 is still worth noting for those who might be thinking along similar lines.
It is true that 5/2 is available with a conventional bookmaker, which makes anything shorter than that on an exchange a little pointless - but then in that situation, the pressure of money should push Huhne’s odds in at the bookies as well. That it hasn’t suggests that enough people view the range as value.
77. Well perhaps but I really can’t see the Lib Dems in coalition. Proping up Labour if they get less votes than the Tories could well destory both parties for many years and they know it, and Lib Dems hate Tories. (As this site testifies)
75 In a two-horse race, the odds become distorted, PfP.
I’d estimate the probablity of Clegg winning at around 60%. That’s 6/4 on. So ask me who I think the winner will be, and I’ll say Clegg. Ask me where the value lies, and I’ll say Huhne, without a doubt.
79 No, David, for once I disagree. (!)
It’s the lack of polls that I think is causing it. That means the punters are flying blind. Nobody is prepared to risk much and there’s a lack of liquidity. The market is becalmed.
I think woody is right at the moment about the trend to two-party politics - I’m finding more voters than usual saying “I’m wavering between Tories and Labour”. Of course the new guy will get a fair amoun tof attention at his first PMQ outing, policy launched, etc., but certainly the first task will be to keep media interest.
Cable appeals to people like me who like serious, dry politics. It’s a bit unfashionable, so the LDs are probably better off going for either of the two. I think Huhne’s extra edge reflects his outsider status - he has to shake up the contest. It probably remains true (and visible on pb.com) that Clegg worries the Tories more, as he’s visibly in the same part of the wood as Cameron.
Ryan at 65 I have quoted you on my Blog tonight, hope you don’t mind, but I found your festival analogy highly amusing and very relevant so I nicked it.
The Libdems should go for Huhne because of the age difference, Clegg could then be second string. When the Libdems get fed up with Huhne, they’ve got Clegg to fall back on.
83. Nick. As you are around. Re the last thread I think. I wasn’t the poster to heve described Alistair Campbell’s diary as “repulsive”. I’ve not read it but did see extracts on the telly. I bet I would find it quite interesting but everyone knows he held the meaty stuff back so I haven’t bothered. But no, certainly wasn’t me.
83. Nick they are both from the same wood! They have obviously never grown up. Once I left school I never went back, but these two - straight back to Westminster. Bet they were really disappointed when they realised they couldn’t wear top hat and tails!
And Mike, stop talking up Vince; it was people talking up Ming and saying how good he was at PMQs that got the Lib Dems in this mess in the first place!
83 - *I think woody is right at the moment about the trend to two-party politics - I’m finding more voters than usual saying “I’m wavering between Tories and Labour”.*
You might even be correct - to be honest i’ve seen no evidence that the two party-one policy thing, the lifeblood of power hungry nu-labour, is going to waver. Well done. You must be very proud.
87 - Ming was only talked up by idiots.
81. PtP. I would rate it 1/2 Clegg, 2/1 Huhne. Unusually I disagree with you from the previous thread that the betting on this will remain static due to the lack of polling evidence. If Huhne performs well on QT shortly I expect his odds to reduce sharply. If not then yes it’s probably status quo.
I’m also not sure about your view that the LibDem seats spread will move upwards as a result of this contest. At around 50 they already seem pretty high to me. Improved polling, which isn’t a given, would justify that spread position but not necessarily see it moving upwards, in my view.
84. haha, u wouldnt be gordon brown by any chance?!
They’re going into the stalls. Under starters orders!
I like Huhne’s tie.
“Libdem” special across the front - not going to please the LD PB purists.
92 Noted with interest, StJohn.
Let’s see!
(Huhne loses the tie contest. Always a mistake to wear a pattern on TV. It looks confused.)
QuestionTime: 4 minutes in
Huhne looking much more professional so far.
rubbish first question.
Clegg is much better it looks
to be fair, I asked a very rubbish question at the PB hustings, but I was very hungover.
Clegg:
Asked why he criticized Huhne…
“Did I say that […] I honestly can’t remember what I said”
Everybody laughs at him
Digging himself deeper
They’re both so much better than Cameron or Brown - that much is already obvious.
Clegg in a bit of a hole over his memory…. Huhne looking the better so far (to this disinterested observer anyway)
Huhne hits back:
My ‘controversial’ policies = replacing Trident
Spontaneous applause
I hope we’re not going to see the astroturf machine getting a run out tonight…
Clegg kissing ass:
“Would love both Ming and Campbell in my team”
one was an alocholic and the other was old
Clegg off to a better start, although he was given a better start by DD (and subsequently managed to make DD’s question look a little silly).
I think his tie may have the edge, too.
Clegg in a hole - Huhne doing reasonably well ; yet they are both saying roughly the same things.
Still loving Huhne’s tie
Q: if Ming and Kennedy were so good, why did you get rid of them?
Clegg: I’ve always been a great supporter of Ming
(Kennedy?)
Huhne’s tie is appalling
IMHO Clegg’s tie is better BTW
All the flack from the audience so far aimed at Clegg
Looking at ties is completely stupid. I never even noticed them before reading your comments
Stupid questions/interuptions from the floor seem more stupid than a normanl QT - I think LDs expect more.
Not doing well with this CK question. Everyone knows he was toppled in the end thanks to Cable, Teather and co…
The Hung Parliament question!(Good joke from Huhne)
115 - don’t hate the player hate the game.
Huhne’s answer on Hung Parl was weak. So is Huhne saying he would not enter a formal coalition?
If only Ming could have answered the hung parl. question so easily…
120 - wrong - it was a good answer from Huhne.
Huhne got bogged down on CK question but doing better now. However I like the way Nick has turned the coalition question on its head.
Clegg seems much more nervous and far less sure-footed.
Also, his teeth are very discoloured. It’s not very attractive.
I could feasibly see Huhne as the holder of one of the top Tory Shadow posts, or a junior Labour cabinet MP ‘on the up’.
As for Clegg, I could only imagine him holding his own as a very junior member of either other party’s cabinets. He lacks gravitas and he lacks conviction.
Yes Valerie - I agree, Clegg takes this Hung Parl question.
1-1 now I think
Huhne: joke and red and blue faces - chuckles
Says neither a 2nd rate tory or laborite, warns about future Lab-Con alliances/coalitions. Says constitutional changes should come before ‘partnership politics’.
Clegg:
Will form alliances as long as it furthers ‘liberal ideas’. Says he will break ‘two party politics’ within two elections. DD has to step in to remind him of the question.
121. He did - he made it clear he would support Labour.
“A rush to the same crass, callow, conservative ground…” - very good. Huhne’s a lot more comfortable with words (or a lot better rehearsed) than Clegg.
Clegg stammers a bit at the beginning of each answer.
There will never be such a grand coalition - they are using this red herring to dodge this very difficult question. Very clever.
Meanwhile, they are saying they will join whichever party offers them what they want.
haha they are suggesting labour and Tories might end up in coalition, good one!
Who’s that Republican american who called the Con race. Whoever he says gets more votes then that’s who i’d vote for.
Huhne is impressing me more at the moment. He impressed me more on the pbc hustings too.
Question3 - Trident
Clegg’s getting very stressed at a woman who believes they’re not answering correctly. Huhne merely gets more forceful with his points. Far more impressive.
“they are suggesting labour and Tories might end up in coalition”
If they’ve got the same policies why would you rule out a coaltition?
wow, what a mess theyve both got themselves into on hung parliament. surely both candidates know they are likely to be king maker after the next election. they should both have polished responses. Pendling the line that we maybe the opposition next time round is ridiculus.
surely they shouldve said “we dont no what policies the two main parties will have at the next election. If one party has more liberal ideas than the other, then we’ll be more likely to support that party. but we’ll not commit to any party”
Clegg sounds like he’s at the debating club or something… don’t like his tone
133: Huhne is, again, doing better than Clegg but the size of Huhne’s majority makes him a silly choice.
Will either of them ever get round to answering a question instead of the endless waffle?
Huhne in a mess on missiles. Looks very much the rearmer.
139 - remember the incumbency benefits, as well as the fact that no major party leader has lost their seat since, ooh, Lansbury…? It just doesn’t happen!
139 - remember the incumbency benefits, as well as the fact that no major party leader has lost their seat since, ooh, Lansbury…? It just doesn’t happen!
Trident question showing Clegg at his explaining best, I think. Huhne has a different approach but more ‘political’ (and less clear).
Clegg being painted as a peacenik… since it’s hard to see Nick as idealistic he looks opportunistic.
Huhne comes off as much more grounded in reality (talking about money) on this defence issue.
Huhne very passionate about trident - I don’t agree with him but he came across very well.
Huhne is being so nasty to Clegg!
I’m a Tory and so not hugely fussed who gets the job - but Huhne is walking this. I’m putting some cash on him right now.
it’s PB PMQs all over again - we like who we like.
What was Huhne’s Trident stance? My viewing was interrupted by an unwelcome visitor…
141, Londoner
“Huhne in a mess on missiles. Looks very much the rearmer.”
I think for the average member of the public his reply actually reassuring, less ‘loony left’. Can’t say how it’ll play for LD members
Huhne much better. Very intelligent, clear authorative and informative. I listen to the detail of what he says. Clegg is irritating “mood music”. Huhne a clear leader who I can see holding that brief at PMQs very well.
139 - I just couldn’t see Huhne loosing his seat if he became leader. Would any set of constituents really replace the leader of a major party with an anonymous local MP, I wonder.
150.
Basically to have a smaller and independent nuclear capability, and not unilaterally disarm. That’s what I understand.
Both speaking very well now - very authorative. However this is Huhne’s issue and he has clearly won. Bet Clegg wants this to move on.
IMHO Huhne now 2-1 up
Huhne played the anti-american card well there though. But Clegg does well on son of star wars.
Question 4 - Tax Cuts
Huhne comes across a lot better on Tv than at the hustings I feel.
154 - Thank you. It surprises me, though. I thought that Huhne was very much the disarmer…
Huhne gets another laugh
New Question 4 - Similar candidates?
139: 568 is far too low.
Dimbleby seems to bully Clegg again
159, me too - but I haven’t been following the leadership contest for a while.
Nothing to suggest that Clegg is favorite so far - as is the PB understanding, Huhne is the value bet.
Another Huhne laugh for self-deprecation. Who said he was the ‘Gordon Brown’ candidate…?
huhne won the missle battle. im a fan of trident, but respect his passion on the issue, and his sensible approach towards iran and north korea in keeping a different deterent
Clegg bleats on about something or another - Huhne takes the lead by stressing his varied background and going on the economy.
On the basis of this I’d vote Huhne if I was a Lib Dem. It is interesting that some say he’s bad in person.
Did Clegg really just use the “I’m far too British to tell you how good I am” argument? Dearie me…
Clegg seems to dismiss Huhne’s CV building…
Clegg is now sounding like a B Grade Cameron, he cant do the earnest thing very well
Huhne selling himself well…
Conviction politician (kept running to win his seat)
Serious press journalist
Started own business
Brings in real issues (economics etc)
Clegg:
Uni lecturer
“Anger” motivates me. Leftist rhetoric, “save the kids”
Clegg’s finally come into his own when asked for his reasons as to what motivated him to get into politics. He even topped Huhne on this one and now Huhne looks less passionate…
Finally (!) Clegg seems to show some passion … his list of angry statements was good.
Huhne goes back to policy now - equality this time…
174,
He sounds like a phoney
Clegg is doing human in line with rest of his campaign - Huhne more ‘political’, also in line with rest of campaign.
Liked the passion from Nick - he needs to get better at talking to the camera as well as the room
Good passion from Nick about injustice. Sounded authentic.
Huhne leads with his cv: Clegg trumps with passion.
someone keeps laying Huhne at 3.7 on betfair, maybe ‘doing a Huhne’ on him!
My own view so far is that this is almost exactly even.
143. The Liberals lost two consecutive leaders in two consecutive general elections. Samuel in 1935 and Sinclair in 1945….
Lansbury never lost his seat a leader of the Labour party…
Oh no! Clegg blows it with the “People’s” Health Service … glib.
174. yes - I was about to say ‘calm and human’ before he ramped it up, at the right moment IMO.
Just got a txt from my neutral brother - “old man dimbley must be missing his seat”