So what will they both say at PMQs?
November 21st, 2007
Will it be a third bloody session for Gord and his team?
With a popular headline this morning being “Another day - another disaster” the Prime Minister cannot be looking forward to his weekly cross examination across the dispatch box at PMQs. This starts at noon.
No doubt both Cameron and Brown have been preparing all morning and the interesting element will be whether there will be an attempt to pin the lost data issue on the Prime Minister. He was after all in charge at the treasury when the big job cuts programme at the Inland Revenue and customs was being implemented. The child credit system, as well, as a Brown creation.
Mike Smithson
MessageSpace Advertising
Guido has a classic today; the disks are apparently for sale on e-bay
Will Huhne or Clegg risk asking a question?
Daily Politics studio hit by power cut. Suppliers a French company led by Andrew Brown, brother of…………
1.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/child-benefit-cd-x-2-millions-of-personal-details_W0QQitemZ130176357093QQihZ003QQcategoryZ47103QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD4VQQcmdZViewItem
O/T but Chirac’s been placed under formal investigation for corruption.
And Chris Grayling craftily mentioned a campaign to keep Gordon Brown away from Wembley this evening because he’s seen as being a sporting Jonah (as with the Rugby World Cup final).
Mr Chairman… who’s that?
209 of previous thread - Yes, Vince Cable has done well; but his political skills matter more in his role than his experience at Shell, although the latter is important. We don’t know how he’d be as a minister.
5 - Unsurprising, given Sarkozy’s animus. If he can destroy the reputation of Chirac and his allies, it’ll be very difficult for any rivals in the UMP to coalesce against him when times become tough.
209 of previous thread - Yes, Vince Cable has done well; but his political skills matter more in his role than his experience at Shell, although the latter is important. We don’t know how he’d be as a minister.
5 - Unsurprising, given Sarkozy’s animus. If he can destroy the reputation of Chirac and his allies, it’ll be very difficult for any rivals in the UMP to coalesce against him when times become tough.
Cameron hasn’t landed a blow.
10. really? I thought it was one of his best yet!
10 & 11: Surely backing your assertion with some mention of why you think this might be the case.
No sign whatsoever, yet, of a big clunking fist. No sign of any lasting blows from Cameron either.
Silly first question from Cable. Not a time for comedy imo.
Brown sounded really horrible on his last response to Cam, far too partisan for the occasion
10, 11 - a meeting overrun (bah, work!) so I only saw the last exchange. DC looked a bit flustered to be honest, and I note GB could only resort to tractor production figures. So I shall have to view this evening.
Brown surprisingluy assured.
Good move to offer unqualified apology to kick off.
Vince slipped up today though, unfortunately.
I’m amazed, Brown wasn’t bad!!!
Best question so far: has any minister offered to resign?
16 - so it was a massacre then?
20. Sadly for you, Cameron was relatively weak - not one of his best.
Hard one to call in my view. Cameron got Brown rattled on his last question when he challenged Brown’s competence. That always seems to get under his skin.
Will depend a lot on how the media report and edit this one, I would have thought. But this is a slow burn issue which will gradually erode confidence in this administration.
very interesting today. no blows landed but clever tactics. Getting Brown to trumpet his economic ’success’ just when the economy is tanking wont play well with the public
16-”Brown surprisingluy assured”
Agreed!
Thought Cameron didn’t really land a telling blow (does he need to? - the government is seemingly raining blows on itself) but couldn’t call it a win for GB either.
GB’s stock reeling-off response to DC’s sixth and final question is pretty cheap in my opinion, but I suppose it only plays that way to political types.
Im suprised by the responses, I often feel Camerons PMQ showings are overhyped, but I thought he was very clear and fluent today, and had the right tone.
19.Even better -Is it time for Blackadder to say goodbye to Darling?
So a score draw then? Mmmm, will see this for myself later.
“Is it time for Blackadder to say goodbye to Darling?”
25. I think Brown’s last response was pre-planned - he knew Cameron would finish off by questioning his competence.
29: Nice one. But Capt Blackadder was a likeable, popular and amusing figure. So not the best comparision.
This is why Gordon Brown is our Prime Minister. What a statesman.
32: “What a state” is what I think you meant.
Brown knew this was coming for a couple of weeks. He’s probably been rehearsing for days. That said he said nothing of any consequence. Cameron home win but no other result was possible. He didn’t give Brown a thrashing though.
The risks will remain and the cost of mitigating them across government departments will likely cost billions especially when the Management Consultants get hold of it.
Even if this data is found and has not been compromised, there will be other disasters of this sort around the corner.
That last one “I don’t know why the PM is smiling, there’s 25 million people who aren’t”
Now that’s a good soundbite.
Well I would say this, but I think the PM won this round. Cameron didn’t really seem to get his systemic failure argument, going as Brown had already announced he’d be giving the information commisioner the power to makke spot checks and so on. I also thought the point that the Tories had want to cut HMRC datap processing spending punctured Cameron’s self righteousness quite well.
Having said that, this PMQs will be drowned by the larger story data securty- so the I think the announcement that the government will be giving the information commissioner more powers is the news of real import.
So no knockout blow from Cammy then? Mmmm.
Cameron got in some choice soundbites about Brown’s incompetence which will be widely replayed on the main news programmes this evening. Brown’s near tantrum after Cameron’s last question won’t inspire confidence.
The beta-blockers seem to have stopped his hands shaking though
37 - Yeah, Labour are back in charge, crushing the opposition and looking as competent as ever.
Edward Leigh asked a far better question on discgate than Cameron managed.
Interesting that unlike the tidy marked folder which both Major and Blair used Brown’s is a mess of loose papers stuffed between two covers. It does show the style of work.
After Leigh’s question, Brown is nowing trying to hide behnid a review. Didn’t answer the question.
Lots of nodding dogs on the government benches and planted questions aplenty.
Today was not the day to go for the jugular. I thought DC handled it very well. Gordo went back to reeling off Blairite stats, a clear sign he had lost IMHO. This issue isn’t over by a long way methinks….
37-Surprisingly, no
Gordon finally lands a blow on DC - first time since taking over.
I think that Tory MP is going to get a speaking to!
31. Look, it’s General Melchett and Captain Darling, ok? I don’t think there is a Blackadder in the Government. Just a mad deluded leader and a pen-pushing assistant.
Remember when Brown referred to Major and Lamont as the Laurel and Hardy of politics?
Cameron was shooting at an open goal, but Brown was no Paul Robinson. Let’s hope Scott Carson defends as well tonight.
I was surprised by how well Brown did considering the scale of the disaster.
Cameron did OK, but no knockout blow.
45 - “Gordon finally lands a blow on DC - first time since taking over.”
He landed several blows. Gordon was magnificent today.
46. It depends whether the cd’s surface and whether the data has been compromised. That said everytime ID cards is mentioned this will be thrown back in the Governments face.
I have a question regarding Betfair, specifically the commission charge. Say I put £10 on event A happening at odds of 2, to return £20 (10 profit). This would result in £0.50 (5%) commission charge. Then say the odds moved to 1.9, and I layed £10. Would therefore the 5% be charged only on the extra £1 profit, (£0.05) rather than the whole original £10 profit incurring the charge? Hope thats clear
Brown’s long litany of excuses and pathetic attempts to pass the buck, it wasn’ae me!!, renders his so-called apology worthless. His attempts at bravado and triumphalism over the (failing) economy were in extremely bad taste, given the circumstances.
Millions of worried peope whose personal details, and those of their children, may be in the hands of criminals will not be impressed and will never forgive him.
Fraser Nelson has a new article up starts as follows.
The most important political story on the internet is nothing written by a journalist, but the reaction being posted to on the lost data catastrophe. From the BBC to our own Coffee House, people are pledging to shut down bank accounts and vote Labour out. They seem utterly unmoved by assurances that all is well, and no one is really at risk. En route to PMQs, I bumped into a minister and we got talking about this. “Who on earth are these people?” he asked.
The answer: the British public. People who live miles away from the Westminster village,
It’s maybe that what’s going on in PMQ’s is just not important to the British Public today.
50 - Commission is only charged on net profit (so 5p in this case).
“Today was not the day to go for the jugular.” If that had been said before PMQs then it might have been believed.
Parliament at its worst - Poor questions from Cameron and Cable, Labour MPs changing the subject.
Hope English football team tonight is better at scoring goals than Cameron!
“Overall, though, Brown will be relieved at how the exchange went—it could have been so much worse.”
http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/364416/brown-survives-pmqs.thtml
and
“Playing to a packed house”
http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/364471/playing-to-a-packed-house.thtml
Brown has a good day in the house. Who have thunk it?
What about DAVID HEATHCOAT AMORY? Show the Tories are not quite there yet…
52
The front page of today’s London Evening Standard has the headline “Millions change bank accounts”.
Is panic setting in?
54. Like DC the England team are good at missing open goals.
David Heathcoat-Amory - surely a Labour plant.
Baroness Jay calling DC an opportunist because he didn’t take the opportunity to score an open goal !
57. If the public have completely lost trust in Brown he is finished whatever may happen. This incident could be the tipping point.
noisy summer @ 50 re Betfair. Yes, commission is charged on a per-market basis.
If, though, you were to trade off in another market, say you back Brown to be PM past 2011 in the “exit date” market, and then hedge by laying Brown-and-Cameron-only in the “partyleaders at the next election” market, then commission for each market would be calculated separately.
Voxpop my dear, if only the Tories could boast of 10 years in power without a recession, erm, but you can’t can you? I know it must rankle, but there you go old fruit. This government has delivered unprecedented prosperity, whilst Tories have been preaching economic meltdown since 1997. But there you go.
52: A crowing Cameron would have gone down very badly on the evening news.
As someone who took early retirement, due in no small part to dealing with the setting up of an enormous data base, I’m pleased this has happened, data base security is now a real issue.
If Labour recover from this and go on to win a fourth, (not in its best interests) I’ll be amazed: still I’ve been amazed before!
57. On the politics show they said the story itself said “Million are EXPECTED to change accounts”. So it’s one of those sorts of headlines.
53,62. marvellous, thanks
Dear or dear number 48. I go to Adam Boulton blog for Nu-Labour nonsense if I want it, the Brown-nosers here are usually much more considered (though still robust). McSporran was certainly not magnificent he just wasnt ‘pants.’ For once he didnt look like a dribbling idiot which is progress I suppose but from a very poor base.
63. Hang on to those memories they’ll give you comfort in the bright blue years ahead….
Still on the floor laughing at David H-A!! What a complete tit!
Did anyone miss this poll analysis…
So it’s not all good news for the Tories
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91211-1293613,00.html
I think the edited highlights, with slo-mo replay tonight will show that the ball crossed the line with DC’s last question and Brown’s response.
71 - Exactly. Labour are doing better than the Tories exactly. As RedFlump has kindly informed us.
59. Plenty of NuLab plants in evidence, making more requests for the reeling off of tractor output statistics. Brown failed to deal with the commnents on the helicopters, always claims that there are new machines on the way. Nothing on when or how many? He is responsible for blocking the requipment of the RAF, Army and RN.
There must be more Lab MPs who must be wondering how they can still hold their seats after this week.
71. Clutching at straws I think….
71 Labour support down 3%, GB didnt make a total fool of himself when defending a national scandal and David H-A asks a stupid question. A great day for NuLabour without doubt.
LOL! People who seriously believe Gordon Brown can come out of this well is deluded and frankly stupid. Who cares about PMQ’s? This is a cock up that effects 25 MILLION people - I’ll say that again, 25 MILLION PEOPLE!!!!!!!! A reasonable performance at PMQ’s means absolutely nothing in something as appalling as this. Cameron doesnt have to say or do anything, support for Labour will drain away like water sinking through a plug hole. It’ll be Ten Daves by Christmas, gurantee it!
fr @ 72 — Cameron’s last two questions were better than what went before but I fear this was his Westland moment.
71 although i will concede its your best day for a while!
71 - Sky: “the Tory advance has halted”
At 43%.
Hardly a disaster for the Tories. Where do you expect them to get to - 50%?
72
after an apalling backpass by Alastair Darling.
64 I agree, a crowing DC woold not have gone down well, as i said i thought he judged it about right. There are oodles more opportunities to stick the boot in………………………….
71
Who would have thought that the headline 41% (n/c) was hiding the sensational news that the Tories hadn’t gained in the share of vote ?
Cameron demonstratbly failed today in the House.
D H-A Tories shows they’re still a bit out of touch.
Poll shows no love for the Tories despite Labour’s troubles.
Still bad for Labour, but it’s still far from over.
Net result of the day : Morale UP.
You tell em Jonathan. As we have seen today, Brown is the Giant of UK politics. We can just like at him in shock and awe.
83. I think I’m living in a parallel universer. You honestly believe that after endangering 20 million people Labout ends up with their morale UP? Are living in la la land?
Morale UP? Views from the bunker don’t tend to be all that enlightening do they Jonathan?
So Brown wasn’t trembling at the despatch box, but that’s a very long way from victory. It’s got so bad for Brown at PMQs that a moderate defeat like today’s is being hailed as a glorious victory.
Politcs show hinting at backbench mutterings about Darling’s position.
Where were Huhne and Clegg? Last time round Ming and Simon Hughes questioned Blair.
The only reason Brown keeps putting everything back for review is because the Government’s run out of money. The review is to identify if they can do anything without much cost.
In this case what they will do is ‘tighten’ procedures which will be communicated by a notice or e-mail (and not read by half the relevant people) and perhaps make some superficial changes to the software. Anything else (effective measures) will likely be to costly or likely to restrictive to be workable.
The Information Commissioner will be given more powers but insufficient funding or resources to actually use them. Any funding provided will be robbed from somewhere else which will create additional risk in that area.
Sky coverage giving Brown a pasting and quoting Cameron - Brown has lost again….
Yes, pre-PMQs: This is Cameron’s “Westland” moment.
Post PMQs: “Oh, David didn’t need to land a killer blow”.
But, admitted, this is terribly bad for Labour and the Govt. However, I don’t think in the medium to long term the Tories will prosper.
Radio 2’s soundbite at 1pm is GB’s apology and DC asking him to think again on ID cards. Godd for Tories, I think.
90. If the data is compromised then this will cost the Government badly. I suspect if it does Brown will have to serve Darling’s head up on a platter.
91
Unfortunately, I don’t think God has a vote.
While not nearly on the scale of Kinnock’s fluffinig of the Westland open goal - this will go down in the political hacks’ notebooks as a Cameron flop. He can get away with it this time, does it a couple of more times and he’ll get branded.
That Thrasher article is unbelievably contrived (to make the Tories look bad). Of course, we are yet to see the poll impact of NR and this latest fiasco.
Interestingly, the average on Betfair for only Cameron to be party leader (i.e. no Brown) is about 8, a 15% chance that Brown wont make it. Seems about right
Ooops bad maths, 12.5% I meant
77 GIN “It’ll be Ten Daves by Christmas, gurantee it!”
I’d rather see a round dozen.
“The Twelve Daves of Christmas” has more of a ring to it.
I think we will see at least one poll showing Labour
Labour critters clearly disappointed that they can’t use their pre-prepared “public school bully” line against Cameron today.
RedFlump, I think PMQs is not very relevant, and for what it’s worth I think Darling did the best he could on TV and radio.
What gives the feeling of incompetence is when we hear Ministers like Jane Kennedy. The interview I heard with her was almost cruel to broadcast — someone so clearly and pitifully out of her depth.
Probably the most she has ever done is switch on a PC and buy something on amazon, but here she is responsible for computer security of millions of records for this intrusive government.
er, that didnt work, Labour below 30% in the next couple of weeks
I also disagree with the view that Brown did get the better of Cameron. Frankly, when Brown stood up and starting going on the attack against the Tories and some obscure point they put into the 2005 Conservative manifesto, I think people will find it totalli incredible. What the hell does the Tory Party have to do with this disaster? Its typical Brown, go on the attack and bulldozer over everyone, but on the occassion it was completely misjudged. And then we had more weird smiling/lauging from Brown when Cameron was telling him to show come backbone, which frankly makes Brown look like a freak and a social misfit.
That’s a relief the cd’s turned up
Hope the link works
On eBay - allegedly. laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif
http://tinyurl.com/38k4t5
98 Agreed, Labour won’t be 0% in EVERY poll….
98 you mean they will actually register a percentage….
94. Hilarious spinning
104. haha, good one!
As Jon Pienaar said on the radio this is not a Westminster moment it is a countrywide one.
Cameron may not have been at his killer best today but he didnt have to be.Labour are losing the confidence of the British public.
Its the economy stupid somebody once said and the confidence is bleeding away rapidly in that department.
Nu Labour may feel they have staved off the crisis but i believe it is only the beginning of real decay in this administration.
The Sky Poll does not yet reflect what has just taken place over the last 48 hrs. Lets see the next one.
Browns boys seem to be in a constant state of denial about what is going on around them. From a Tory stance that is good as it will give DC more time to prepare for power and more time to sort out his own backbenchers some of whom also have no grip on political reality.
John Pienaar highlighting the last question and last response on 5 Live. Apparently Matthew Paris said this morning that you know a government is in trouble when a pm says, “I will not take lectures from…..” and Brown said exactly that this afternoon.
63. Sorry Brown-nosers let me get this right - Data protection, NR and all your other cock-ups arent your fault because there is someone else to blame or the Tories would have done the same.
Total rubbish but lets say I buy it… Therefore, me old mucker, How can you keep a straight face when you try and claim that the Great Waster is the architect of tne years of economic growth. I agree he is the beneficiary of the most favourable global conditions of the last 50 years enhanced by the growth the City of London (which is the constant subject of Labour supporters envious attack) . Of course Mc Broon was also the lucky beneficiary of a sound economic base provided by Thatchers economic reforms, taming of the Unions and Clarkes years as chancellor are of course the other main contributor.
Rather than shamefully denying responsibility for his own own mistakes and taking credit for things on which he had no influence, I think the much more relevant question on the economy is how a government that has never had such favourable external economic conditions has managed to get to the point where it is having to borrow in excess of £40 Billion (and forecast to miss target by miles) and has literally nothing in reserve as the Global position turns against it and in the meantime has wasted literally hundreds of billions of OUR money.
101 Noisy Summer
This being a betting Site, you might like to offer some odds on that. You may get some takers.
BBC TV coverage favours the Conservatives, haven’t seen Sky yet.
Brown’s attempt at the party political is being played, and Cameron’s indignationation will strikes a chord with the electorate.
112 - “indignationation” - defin. an expression of idignation felt by the whole country
Just a thought the reports that that the individual responsible for sending the two CDs that went missing acted “completely outside their job remit” and had made “a colossal error”.
A spokesperson for HMRC said: “This individual should not have been involved. It was none of their business. They should have forwarded it on to someone else - another group of civil servants at a more senior level.”
“The HMRC office is a huge office with 200 people and there is a nominated team that send items between us and other departments. The individual in question had nothing to do with that team and the it was completely outside their job remit.”
Now if this is true how could he do this, how did he gain access to the data. It looks like it was very easy, so who know if anyone else has done the same just for fun and sold it off without anyone knowing. The truth is no-one knows, we can only hope that the “mislaid” data is the only copy out there. Time to phone the bank!
113. What is ‘idignation’?
Link here in the Guardian for 114
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/economics/story/0,,2214760,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=society
PMQs is important for morale of the various sides, sometimes to focus on certain areas of debate. Given that, today, the area was obvious Brown will be pleased that he satisfied his supporters.
As to the rest of the country? It’s all about how much seeps into the public consciousness. Astonishingly my sixth formers were talking about the recent cock up today; if such politically uninterested people are talking about this then the effect is likely to be far greater than the usual froth we get worked up about.
As Cameron has demonstrated, this is the last of several data security breaches at HMRC.
The question I would like asked is : “After each previous breach, how many people were sacked?”
Let’s be honest - if you have a culture where it’s almost impossible to be sacked, the likely result is laziness and sloppiness.
You can have as many enquiries as you like. Unless you change the culture, lazy and sloppy behaviour will continue.
110 - it is incredibly desperate stuff when partisans go down the “economic growth under my party was entirely down to my party…but economic growth under other parties is entirely down to other circumstances”.
Primary school level spinning at best
111. I wouldnt mind, but I dont know how to set it up logistically, and I cant be bothered for the amount I would want to stake! If someone else wants to tell me and take me up though, I will say that a poll will show Labour at 29% or lower before Christmas day, at odds of 2.4, up to a stake of £20, so my liabilty would be £20 and the other persons would be £28. (I only take VERY value bets!)
112. Sky is favouring the Conservatives as well (there’s not really a choice on this one).
Cameron’s performance today was irrelevant, Brown’s was important.
IMHO, as neither Brown and Darling has not mentioned any funding to support the neccessary changes that will need to be made he has failed.
Promising reviews and offering further powers to ‘independent’ commissions is purely political evasion.
The people will not be comforted by what he said. This will cost Labour and if the data lost is compromised it will cost them dearly.
Next poll - Labour likely in the low 30’s
I’ve retired from commenting on the public impact of PMQs as we all see what we want, but the unanimous view on the Labour benches was that it had been a surprisingly enjoyable session. What the public thinks depends on how it’s broadcast.
The cats concede that they’re likely to lose their ICM bet, though!
114 Your last para is the relevant one, Fitaloon. OK, the guy’s a to$$er but you’ll get them in any organisation. How was it even possible for him to do this is the right and worrying question.
Btw, why have you gone blue?
121. delete ‘not’ in second paragraph.
119
I think that we will all admit that Labour spinning is at post graduate level, compared to us ordinary primary level posters.
121 it only needs 3 Labour voters in 100 to switch to the Tories to make it less than 30% That would make it 46/ 29 absolutely diastrous.
35 - Oh, I’m capable of finding it amusing at the same time as disturbing. I’m expecting some extra birthday cards for my daughter this year…
O/T: Just browsing the BBC News site.
Disappointingly, the following story…
“The Swedish model behind Tory plan for England’s academies”
..turned out not to be as interesting, or aesthetically pleasing, as the above suggested!!
Lured under false pretences…
122 Enjoyable Nick?????. How can the discussion of the loss of 25 million peoples records be enjoyable???????????????
126. Thats not right, it would take 3 Labour voters in 35 or whatever % you are using as your base for that to happen.
Guys, I missed PMQs so cannot comment, but PB (and the Spectator?) are out of step on this. BBC`news at One handed it comprehensively to Cameron and implied Brown was rubbish. They vox pop-ed parents at a playgroup - all bad, one called the PM to resign - they brought in the info commissioner, that was bad too - they said ID cards put in doubt - they said govts reputation for competence in danger.
However you may have seen PMQs, the important TV coverage was all plus for Cameron and negative for Brown. I expect the 6pm news will be the same.
Guys, I missed PMQs so cannot comment, but PB (and the Spectator?) are out of step on this. BBC`news at One handed it comprehensively to Cameron and implied Brown was rubbish. They vox pop-ed parents at a playgroup - all bad, one called the PM to resign - they brought in the info commissioner, that was bad too - they said ID cards put in doubt - they said govts reputation for competence in danger.
However you may have seen PMQs, the important TV coverage was all plus for Cameron and negative for Brown. I expect the 6pm news will be the same.
120 You’re not too far wide of the mark there I think, Noisy Summer. 2.4 is a bit mean. Make it evens and I’ll take you on. And it would have to be one of ICM/Populus/YouGov.
If agreed, I’ll do Mike an email. That’s all it needs.
“the unanimous view on the Labour benches was that it had been a surprisingly enjoyable session”. Nick Palmer
Were these the same people in the hall who thought Gordon’s speech was a great one ?
133. Evens, for ANY published poll
122 - oh dear, Nick’s going to regret that I fear. We know what he meant, but the thought of Labour MPs “enjoying” anything at the moment is not likely to be well received by the country. Suggests that all that matters to Labour MPs is their own fun and keeping hold of their seats.
I feel a swift retraction may be in order here..!
to specify, I’ll just say MORI or ComRes would also count
117 my sixth formers are talking about it as well. This issue is far bigger than any Labour person seems to prepared to accept; Charlie Whelan claiming it was a Westminster Village issue was embarrassing and something Nick Palmer obviously disagrees with.
I am deeply angry about this - principally because I know my childrens’ details are potentially available to anyone for a price. Anger is my only emotion on this and just like the Major government I just want this lot gone and gone soon.
Ministers in Departments clearly don’t know about the daily grind of running an organisation and blaming junior staff or apologising and setting up reviews are symptomatic of people who just don’t know what they are doing.
Keep your knickers on people, we all know what Nick meant!
135 Noisy Summer
Hmmm..that’s a bit broad; there are some wacky pollsters out there, but if you insist. As long as you act in the friendly spirit of the bet. I mean, I’m not paying out on a poll conducted by voxpop, for example.
We on then?
136 - Do give it a rest and let the guy contribute without having his words twisted out of context.
PMQs.
The funniest moment came at the expense of our own Mr Fabricant. The Speaker rebuked the ever noisy MP and the government benches in unison shouted “keep your hair on Michael.”
Some on our own side bit their lips to stiffle the laughter, but at home I couldn’t manage such party restraint.
re 57 several people in the tea room this lunchtime were doing it and the tone was unanimously hostile to the government. Still at least the good people of Broxtowe aren’t worried by it.
122. I will interpret this as an admission that this is far too serious for the government to risk any loose words on a blog. Are you under instructions from Hoon the Buffoon?
The media write their PMQ the actual event. They then select the clips to fit the narrative and then broadcast.
PMQs will have next to no effect in the country but Brown’s performance will raise morale, from rock-bottom, amongst Labour supporters.
145
PMQs will have no effect in the country except those parts that favour Labour ?
145. “but Brown’s performance will raise morale, from rock-bottom, amongst Labour supporters.”
Until the full scale of this disaster is revealed in the polls on the weekend of December 1st/2nd
Btw, the spread markets have moved again. There is now clear daylight between the buy Labour and sell Tory prices on SI.
145. Why do Labourites enjoy a life of incessant reviews?
I suppose it does fit in with their ‘I’m busy doing nothing’ ethos….
PtP yeah why not. Let me know what I need to do! (I hope no bank details are yet required, although the horse has probably already bolted on that one!)
Re 50 Noisy Summer, “I have a question regarding Betfair, specifically the commission charge. Say I put £10 on event A happening at odds of 2, to return £20 (10 profit). This would result in £0.50 (5%) commission charge. Then say the odds moved to 1.9, and I layed £10. Would therefore the 5% be charged only on the extra £1 profit, (£0.05) rather than the whole original £10 profit incurring the charge? Hope thats clear”
yes commssion is charged on Net winnings. So if you bet and lay you end up with a net position on which you pay the commission.
147. I think Mike will need to extend his graphic box to accomodate the Tory lead.
Test @ 132.
I think we have to divide opinion broadly into those who watched the whole of PMQs and the those who have only seen the highlights.
I fall into the former. I felt that apart from his last reply to David Cameron that Brown was better than usual today. His tone was more measured and delivery slower. The apology at the start also took the wind out of our sails somewhat.
However the edited highlights clearly indicate a home win for us and most people will get their view from these morsels.
122. Labour MP’s into S & M then!!!
Did anyone hear Nick Robinsons comment that the junior involved is being looked after in hiding in a hotel somewhere by the government so that the media and possibile criminals cant get at him
155 have they checked his pockets yet?
DC chose his words very carefully and cleverly today.
Some of the phrases were subliminal in their tone.For example he at one point spoke of the PMs “weird and bizarre” behaviour.This might not seem much but it has the effect of undermining the PM and make any decisions that he takes to be not based on logic or stable thought.
This could work well because when GB first became PM one of the attributes that he polled well on was that of being strong sound and most of all logical and sensible.
This continual barrage from the Tory front benches will gradually seep into the British publics consciousness.
I thought that Brown had planned this well today and came out of it OK. His attack on the Tories for their plan to cut jobs was effective and will have cheered his party up.
But this is all about sound-bites and on the bulletins I have seen Cameron is the clear winner. Gordon’s sound-bites never seem to resonate.
I think a million-or-so votes previously in the Labour account have, almost electronically, transferred to the Conservative account. And, Labour critics note: it’s all been done without spending a penny of Lord Ashcroft’s money.
112: Both Sky and the BBC covered PMQs in a pro Tory way.
145: Ann(e) Alexander on the Daily Politics said the opposite was true, but she’d only been and talked to Labour MPs so what did she know?
119. Well apart from the fact that I wasnt claiming anything about Conservative growth so you point is silly anyway, how exactly is pointing out the McSporran has benefitted from and then squandered un-parralled growth in the world economy spinning?
At least I have progressed to primary, you have clearly yet to graduate from the Nursery. (and I am aware of the irony in that statement)
113. What is ‘IDignation’?
This refers to the self-immolation and combustion of its own ID scheme by the Labour cabinet. Although, it should be added, the IDIG could possibly refer to the practice of the condemned man digging his own grave before being shot.
The other factor that may make it a good day for GB is the footy tonight.If England get the result then your average punter will be more preoccupied with that tomorrow than the loss of their personal data.
If England fail however just watch the FTSE crash again and expect more heat to be turned up on Brown and Darling
162 - Excellent. I owe you one for getting me out of that hole with such wit and erudition!
163. I think it will take more than the Football to save Brown. Not many people will forget the Government has lost their personal details because England have qualified from a group that should have been settled months ago.
Of course Brown/Labour did not win PMQs today . Given the circumstances the best they could do was escape to come back another day . Cameron stepped up to take the last minute penalty that could have knocked Labour out but stubbed his toe as he ran up to shoot , the ball trickling into Brown’s hands .
I agree with ukpaul’s post earlier . This is one of the very few issues that has touched people here at work into talking about politics ( NR did not do this ) . The comments were uniformly very very scathing of Brown and Labour and they will not recover from this for some time .
Sorry to repeat this, but I’m still unclear.
HMRC seems to be the responsibility of the Treasury without being under its control. The HMRC itself seems to be responsible, in some sense, to Parliament, with the Chancellor reporting on its operations.
I could have got this all wrong, but “anomalous” and “out of control” are the sort of phrases that an opposition might, justly or not, throw at the situation - a situation which a future Chancellor might sensibly correct.
152 - Gabble, you have been very balanced of late. Have you managed to finally complete that escape tunnel from the Bunker? Are now posting to us from Switzerland?
Good show, old chap. Stay put - we’ll have you home for Christmas.
160 Nick Robinson, that well known former Young Conservative, gave it decisively to Brown.
131,138 re serious issue — yes, that is the point. There is a great deal of public concern and rightly so. DC had an open goal but missed. My own view is that Darling may yet have to go but Cameron at PMQs did nothing to hasten his departure.
150 That’s it then, Noisy, it’s done. Small friendly bet like this, we don’t have to be too formal. I’ll drop Mike an email - £20 at even money: I pay you if Labour record 29% or less by Christmas Day in any published poll by a reputable firm (ICM etc, OK: voxpop, not: anything in between we discuss sensibly) otherwise I pay you.
No need for bank details etc - a crisp £20 in a brown envelope will do. I suggest Royal Mail rather than TNT.
Any quibbles, Mike arbitrates. Yes?
I missed PMQ’s (leafletting over proposed Post Office closures), so the first I saw was the 1 o’clock news. looked like Cameron came out on top. Brown trying to blame the Tories and getting called pathetic made Brown look weak. Seeing as that’s all 90%+ of the population will see, then Cameron did OK. After all, who remembers what the other 5 questions were when Blair called Major ‘weak, weak, weak’
90 Redflump and several others.
You ignore the fact that many suggested pre PMQ’s that Cameron should not go in too heavily e.g. Mike in the introduction to the last blog wrote “I wonder how Cameron will play it? Maybe he would be wise to follow the approach of George Osborne yesterday and take a low-key approach.”
There clearly were dangers for Cameron over-playing his hand but overall based on the lunch times news reports (3 channels) it seems Cameron got it about right and was able to successfully attack Brown’s reputation.
171. You may wish to read through that post again. Sounds like you’re giving money away!
171. Sounds good! One thing, I shouldnt really say this, but to ensure anonimity I used an old email address which I dont use for posting here. Will I need to email mike my new one?
174 Whoops, yes Rory!
No problems though. Noisy’s a man of honour and knows exactly what I mean.
175 No, Noisy. Drop me an email and I’ll reply direct to you.
arklebar@talktalk.net
Cheers.
O/T:
Northern Rock sliding slowly - down to 83.5 pence
71 - Sky: “the Tory advance has halted”
Good news, mein Fuhrer - now that the Americans and the British and the Russians are in Berlin, it cannot be long before their advance makes no further progress!!
Drip, drip, becoming a massive shower. It’s very damaging.. Reminds me of 94-97.
PtP & Noisy Summer - Wow, just a few days ago I was asking 6-1 here against Labour polling 29.9% or less on or before 31 May 2008.
“Events, Dear Boy, Events” over the intervening period I guess.
A crisis, politcal or otherwise seems to bring out the best in Brown. The PMQs performance today was organised, and professional - much better than the ones before it. Over the summer Brown was good at responding to events. Whatever other points can be made about Brown or the current treasury problems, I think this one is worth mentioning.
Being good in a crisis is a good quality for a PM. Its a shame Brown loses focus when the stakes are not quite so high or things are going well.
179 So you think Cameron’s current position is that he is home and dry in Berlin. Put your feet up then, job done. Nice.
171 - Any more ‘heads I lose, tails you win’ bets being offered so generously Peter
165 - Footie not enough for Broon, unless ENgland go and winin style (not likely). Dull and scraped 1-1 draw or narrow win will lead to McClaren - Brown comparisons…. ‘Still in a job… only just&#