Will the Broxtowe cats lose out?
November 21st, 2007
What will the data fiasco do to Nick Palmer’s bet?
PBC’s most prolific and long-standing MP contributor, Nick Palmer, often enters into charity bets on the site where the loser, if it is not he, makes a donation to the Cats Protection League in his constituency of Broxtowe in Nottinghamshire.
One such current bet is that Labour will “not fall below 34% in an ICM poll before the end of 2007″. Given that the last survey had the party at 35% we are getting pretty close. The issue that poll-watchers and cat-lovers will be looking for is whether that 34% floor is going to be breached.
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It could be a tight thing. A common consequence of cumulative bad publicity, like that which we have seen for Labour over the past few days, is that party supporters tend to tell pollsters that they are less certain that they will vote compared with when things are going well.
ICM have a tight filter on this question. Only those saying they are 70% certain or more get included. If the firm is following its usual time-table then fieldwork for the monthly Guardian survey should start on Friday. There might, of course, be other polls that have been commissioned for the Sunday papers.
Mike Smithson
MessageSpace Advertising
Yes, if polling is this weekend.
Well it would appear the story we have been told is untrue in parts…
It has been long practise and Not by a junior official…
From my last post on prior thread and from Computer Weekly…
The practice of sending across the country unencrypted, CD-based files on millions of child benefit claimants could have continued indefinitely if the discs hadn’t gone missing, we have learned.
Seven months before the CDs went missing, HM Revenue and Customs had already established a practice of transferring onto CD, for despatch by post, insecure, though password-protected, files on millions of child benefit claimants.
The lost discs contained details of all child benefit recipients: records for 25 million individuals and more than seven million families.
The records included parental names, addresses, dates of birth, child benefit and national insurance numbers and where relevant bank or building society details. Paul Gray, the chairman of HM Revenue and Customs, has resigned because of the incident.
The practice of transferring all of the child benefit data onto CDs began in March this year after HMRC’s auditor, the National Audit Office (NAO), ceased to accept sample records for its audit of the department’s accounts.
In the past officials at the Department for Work and Pensions had selected sample child benefit files and passed these to the NAO whose auditors checked for possible fraud and error.
But in March this year, for an audit of HM Revenue and Customs’s 2006/7 Resource Accounts, the NAO, to do a more robustly independent check on the child benefit data, requested a full copy of the details of claimants, not merely a part of the data that had been selected by the department.
Though HMRC does have rules on handling sensitive data, it is unclear whether it had specific, established procedures for handling the request of the National Audit Office.
Aware that the files on child benefit claimants were sensitive, the NAO in March 2007 asked that HMRC filter the information before sending it to the audit office. The National Audit Office asked for the child benefit records to be stripped of details of the parents, addresses and bank information.
HM Revenue and Customs replied that it could not do this - its systems were not sufficiently flexible. It explained it could download only the whole of the information. So it sent to the NAO, by courier-post, all of the details of parents and children, including some bank account details.
That was when the insecure practice began of HMRC sending unencrypted files to the National Audit Office. No alarm bells were raised over the practice in March 2007.
It appears that it was thought easier to send the claimant files on CD than trying to send them electronically. This raises questions about whether government departments are routinely sending CDs with sensitive data around the country, thus avoiding technical challenges and security restrictions on exchanging files electronically.
So in March 2007 HM Revenue and Customs transferred the child benefit data onto CDs and sent them by courier-post from Washington, Tyne and Wear, to the National Audit Office which is near Victoria Station in London. They arrived safely - and the practice became established.
The data was sent to the NAO only partially formatted. It had to be loaded on the National Audit Office’s mainframe systems before it could be manipulated.
In October this year, when the NAO wanted to do an audit of HMRC’s 2007/08 Resource Accounts, it again asked the department for its child benefit data.
Love the messagespace advert. Poor cats!
Witan could be right! But as the beneficiaries will be a cat’s home and a dog’s home elsewhere, the Broxtowe cats will bear it with fortitude. If so, it’ll be only the second charity bet they’ve lost. The other was one on whether the Tories would gain more than one seat in Broxtowe in May - they gained two, so some injured jockeys got the tenner.
And the felines don’t mind giving me a paw in massaging expectations
1. Witan- from last thread- ptp- does give his real name when he writes leaders for the site (and email- tres brave).
By the way Broxtowe’s cats loss is Oxford’s gain- one of the bets is with me, a full £10, and nick has pretty much given up on this bet now.
Mike- this is the best, yes the best, most cute picture you have ever posted on pbCOM. how can anyone here be a cat hater? They are the most magical creatures.
4- nick Palmer- I pos6ted a reply at the end of the last thread about the Children’s database, and my legitimate concerns. and this is something I do know just a tad about.
5 - sorry, don’t like cats and never have. This picture makes no difference. Nick P is a fine person, but I disagree with him strongly on cats and ID cards.
Some cats are two faced.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/ukcorrespondents/weirdwiredweb/nov07/cathead.htm#comments
PtP please see the end of the last thread.
4: Is Gordon a cat lover? It might explain why he’s doing so badly.
I am for the dogs, and that is not a political partisan postion.
When I met and married my wife she had a siamese. I and all her friends hated that spiteful cat and thought it would disappear before too long.
It was four at the time,and died at the age of eighteen. My wife is certain the cat lived long on purpose, just to spite me.
“It could be a tight thing.”
Mike - after the past two days, are you having a larf?
What are Jack Straw’s odds for Chancellor. I think he’s good value certainly immediately if Darling went and even if he limps onto the reshuffle in the Summer. Miliband would never touch it and Brown would surely have to go stark raving mad to appoint Balls. So Safe hands Jack it is. BTW Has anyone noticed how he always thrives but his successors wherever he goes Home Office, FCO etc then all start biting the dust with bewildering rapidity. Heaven help his successor at justice then
10. Quite the reverse if the rumours are to be believed.
Actually you can imagine him in his bunker stroking a white cat.
7- sbs- that poor kitten. It was heartbreaking.
I am getting 2 puppies soon. We are calling them Marx and Engels.
Earlier this year Labour was dipping below 30%. So 34% is no problem.
The Tory lead will be huge.
The only silver lining is that Labour’s slow claw-back of votes will be portrayed as ‘progress’.
14-”Actually you can imagine him in his bunker stroking a white cat2.
I am sitting here posting laptop on one leg, and stroking my cat “Tyson” on the other
Labour will go down to 30-31% at least. If they drop into the high 20’s Brown will be in serious trouble.
17 They’ll drop a few points but things take time. Didn’t the Tories still record a Poll lead or two in the first quarter 93
Tyson so which is the real Blofeld?
18. What an image!!
20. Yes, a lot of people expect polls to move almost as soon as “events” happen, but rarely do they move that quickly. The full fall-out of this debacle probablt won’t be registered in the polls until Christmas.
I seee Sky headline is now ‘Data Disaster’.
Discogate speeds up with the evening news broadcasts. 34% will be good if Labour keep it that high. Certainly crises tend to be slow burning in regard poll movements, but this affects so many people that it is unlikely that it will be so slow burning especially as all the news outlets are now rubbishing the Darling Brown story about junior officials being responsible.
Interestingly I thought the news soundbite would be the ‘wants control’ line but it is the bit where Cameron is clearly annoyed by another attempt by Brown to go back to the last Tory manifesto and claim it is all Dave’s work.
As Cameron said, on a day when they were talking about such a major crisis, trying to blame the opposition simply looked weak and silly.
20. White Wednesday was the Catalysis for the incompetence. After that every little thing was seized upon. The same is likely to happen now.
P.S Where is Nick Robionson at the moment. Didn’t see him on the 6 o’clock news. Is he being airbrushed out today after that terrible call of PMQ’s?
20: There might be a bashful Labour voter effect as none of them want to be voting for such a group of fools.
ICM’s lowest poll for Labour since the 2005GE was 29 in Oct 2006.
Before that it is pre GE1987 time to get lower with ICM.
Thanks as always to Anthony Wells site.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/voting-intention/icm/
Croatia score - Carson’s fault
9 Sure - got it thanks Witan, and have replied.
It’s no big deal.
0-2. Ho-hum.
27. What about Sunday Mirror Poll - 9th March Also 29%
Croatia 2-0 up…..
I was just about to get busy on Betfair backing Russia to qualify - but the odds have nosedived!
Brown is finished now!!
Brown’s Britian really is grim. Incompetence everywhere!!!!
The thing with Datagate is, like Black Wednesday, it hits at the heart of Labour’s whole public image.
The Tories under Thatcher were famed for their economic competence and they won Middle England because they promised they were a safe pair of hands economically. Then Black Wednesday happened and it just destroyed everything.
Under New Labour the big key has been not just the economy, but the safeguarding and protection of the interests of Middle English families - those “Hard Working Families” we hear so much about.
Datagate has probably severely disillusioned these families and Middle England, just as Black Wednesday did for the Tories.
And, while I’m on the subject, the image of the second item of the BBC News webpage, ambulances queueing up outside a full hospital, can’t help matters for the government on the evening news at all.
Is Brown at Wembley in disguise or something?
Still, even if England get through the odds are surely on Maclaren thankfully being sacked.
4 “If so, it’ll be only the second charity bet they’ve lost.”
Ahem…Is the honorable member for Broxtowe forgetting something, or has he perpetrated a terminological inexactitude? I trust I am not obliged to remind him, and the unhappy experience he once had with an old queen and some pawn.
37 And sod the kittens - I stand to lose a score to Noisy Summer if Labour go too low.
13 Stark raving mad? We’re already in this mess because no-one had the balls to risk Gordon going into an almighty strop if anyone had had the temerity to challenge his self-anointed right to be PM. Who’s to say he’s not loopy already.
Wonder if Lord Owen has any views he was often deputed by MI6 in his foreign office days to give assessments of the health of foreign rulers he encountered.
Sorry to go wildly off-thread to this England thing, but why are England playing a first-timer in goal? Is David James injured?
Matt1 Datagate is better than discogate, although the later has more spin in it.
40
Steve McLaren is a loser and picks losers.
Tyson. “It’s is the best, yes the best, most cute picture you have ever posted on pbCOM. how can anyone here be a cat hater? They are the most magical creatures”
What cuter than ten Gordons?
Just flicked through the last thread and it’s a pity that Nick has picked up a stalker. Odd because the poster in question-Jeff- I believe used to post as Scallywag which just goes to show how difficult it is to get rid of a bad smell.
Andorra now have to beat Russia by two clear goals and there’s about as much chance of that as the Tories winning the next election !
40. No he’s on the bench. Wish I’d looked at the Croatia price before the game. Massive value at 8-1.
The Russian football team seldom miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Bit like Gordon.
42 Are you seriously telling me that the guy who has been playing out of his skin for Portsmouth is sitting on the bench?
43. Is that last comment serious Roger?
I hate cats btw. Pointless animals (sorry cat lovers)
22- “tyson” is still here on my lap (not) enjoying the football, and happily purring away.
Oh dear things are not looking good for England. Although not supersticious, I am beginning to believe that there is some bad karma around poor old Gordon.
44 Bloody hell, where’s Ave It when you need him? Here, let me have a go…
LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL! LOL!
Not the same, is it.
re 44 but isn’t hat always the case with footballs games involving England when the mug punters let their hopes overrule their wallets?
43. If you think one Igor is cute (let alone 10) you seriously need help!
50. Every time but the extent of this one is very surprsing. Croatia are 9th in the world after all.
I should have declared an interest having already traded my winnings
Russia in front!
Not only are England going to miss out on Euro 2008 but just being reported on BBC News 24 is a report into trauma care which just adds again to GBs woes.
Over half of those cases looked at for Trauma care had a poor experience.
Yet again the chuck money at it with no results nature of the NHS rears its head again.
re 55 but to be fair Lord Darzi’s proposals to have large regional centres are what this report is asking for.
43- Roger- very funny post.
47-”I hate cats btw. Pointless animals (sorry cat lovers).”
What is the point of human beings, football, wine, anything really?
Woody- what a pointless and inane thing to say. Meaningless and nihilistic.
57. Sorry Tyson, it’s just the way I feel. I’d rather have a dog with a bit more character. A cat wondered into my front room once and had a dump, which didn’t help my opinion of them.
Brown’s got to go. Two-nil down and it’s only half time.
Steve Mclaren has really no idea how to pick and manage a team which will produce good results.
Sounds like our PM.
I’m afraid with winter if we had a flu epidemic our hospital system would collapse cos with many wards closed as cost saving measures, the hospitals will not cope.
I hope it does not happen.
Thank GOD England are going to miss Euro 2008.
I can’t STAND football. I really, really hate the game. It might knock some sense into people at long last.
At the very least, we won’t have to put up with the endless speculation chatter in our offices on our chances in the tournament and similar enlightened “reviews” cluttering up the newspapers for weeks on end.
Wonder what effect this sort of sporting disaster has on peoples morale and optimism in general though? Particularly w/r to politics??
49- Peter- I thought our man was back, until I saw the sad yellow. ave it doesn’t do juxtaposition.
59- roger- you just made me spill my wine
They need to get that bloody Tory Lampard off the pitch. what happened to our labour man, Gary Neville?
61 Casino
I agree with you but for a very different reason. I love football, but I loathe the FA with a passion. That’s where the problem lies and if we got beat, there’s just a one in a million chance people might start to recognise that.
63. On the sick. Draw your own conclusions.
63. Tyson. Gary Neville is still coming back from injury. he hasn’t played first team footbal this season.
Yes, I pity McLaren but blame the FA. His ludicrous appointment, off the back of a jammy run to a UEFA Cup Final in which Middlesbrough got hammered by a more sophisticated continental side, only occurred because the FA stupidly decreed that they had to have a new man in place before the World Cup.
61. Oh yes, a Summer without the biennial overhyping of expectations and the misguided view from the papers that every single person gives a damn about the fortunes of 11 men kicking a bit of leather about a field.
Sounds lovely.
only 3 cats.. Mike Cats would ahead of Nulab in any election poll.;)
61 / 68. keep it up we’ve just scored
Are we sure Lampard’s a Tory?
Can I also add, I HATE cats too. I’m with you Woody.
Seriously - I really, really hate them. Selfish, ruthless creatures, sh1tting everywhere in my garden and killing wildlife.
And I’m allergic to them.
Bastardos.
Lampard the Tory pulls one back
Imagine if Croatia had won a penalty like that. You’d never have heard the end of it.
71. Yes he came out last week.
72. Spot on.
At least for 3 weeks in June true English patriots can relax and not worry what foul acts of uncivilized behaviour English football fans have committed on the peaceful streets of Austria.
70. Blast! ;-(
Tyson. “Tory” Lampard just pulled one back for England.
We obviously need more Tories in the England team!
74. Was never a penalty. Narrow escape there.
67 Yes Aaron but it’s not a one-off or even a recent thing. It’s been like that for generations. The FA is a supine, decrepit, lickpittle organisation wholly subservient to the wishes of the big clubs. Anybody who has ever had anything to do with them knows this.
61. Was there not an argument that the shock victory of Ted Heath (and aren’t we rueing the day?) in 1970 was partly due to the poor performance of England in the World Cup?
I can’t say I believe that, though.
79 Technically it was, Woody, but of a type rarely given.
79. The Croat had him by the shirt - soft prn - true but an offence definitely…
2-2
wow
How depressing!!
82. Would have 15 a game if all them were given.
Shit. Looks like we’re going to get away with it. We’re going to be the luckiest team in the finals.
Is there no way we can give our place to Scotland, or better still N.Ireland? Both are far, far more deserving.
88. Not over yet. Never underestimate our capability to mess sit up.
2-2 and there i was thinking we would be watching old war films next summer…
88 Yellow Card! Stop talking like Gordon Brown.
87 Exactly. But the referee knows who is sitting in the stands and marking his card, so today he gives it.
You’re talking to an ex-ref Woody. Seen it before.
When is john Motson going to retire?
92. The linesman flagged it….Ref would have been in for it if he hadn’t given it…
92. Maybe I’m being harsh because we don’t deserve it.
93. ASAP I would hope. What an annoying pair of f***wits these 2 really are.
Same applies to the linesman, jsfl. Anyway, it’s the ref’s call and if he doesn’t want to take the linesman’s ‘advice’, he doesn’t.
71- Peter- he (Lampard) said that he liked Cameron in a recent interview. Also, sings the national anthem a bit too enthusiastically for my liking.
Gary Neville is one of my current heroes, and i am a city fan
Oh shit
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/7106402.stm
Damn! 3-2 to Croatia!
Excellent. No more than they deserved.
Good god
96. Agreed. I was merely saying that that would have put more pressure on the ref. ANyway it don’t matter quite as much now….
97 Croatia just scored as I was posting- explanation due I think
“Ministers ‘ignored data security warnings’ ”
“Only a few weeks ago, the Government insisted the current enforcement regime for data protection was “fit for purpose” - despite a Lords committee warning over the summer that steps needed to be taken to improve it.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/21/ncustoms421.xml
Croatia are a very good team repeating their 1996 form (David Suker). I remember a guardian journalist who said the changing room in 1996 was thick with smoke at half team as the team were all chain smokers
re 98 as I said above - they’re not the only hospital which is full.
Aaron - I quote in evidence, just by way of example…
“Geoff Thompson is best known as the Chairman of The Football Association. He has long been associated with football especially in South Yorkshire having previously been General Manager of Doncaster Rovers. He subsequently became Chairman of Sheffield & Hallamshire Football Association before being elected as Chairman of the FA in 1999. Outside of football he works as a magistrate.”
Great credentials for somebody running the FA, yes? He’s well into his eighties, and has been in post since 1999. He is virtually invisible, especially when the FA eff up, as they do regularly.
Anyone take “bets in running” that Arsene Wenger to be appointed manager/head coach of England?
It appears England’s best chance is if the final score is called by Populus.
How about Steve McClaren for next Chancellor??
So, who’s going to go first… Alastair Darling, or Steve McLaren?
Thats it! Brown is toast.
Con gain Bootle.
Lab lose deposit . . . . .everywhere!
Desperate for the UK football scene. Just one team would have been some sort of result.
“Without doubt, the defining image of McClaren’s short reign. With their backs against the wall, England need blood, sweat and tears, and yet McClaren stood there helpless, umbrella aloft, not even prepared to get his hair wet! What would Churchill say?”
From BBC web site , text from Watson in Aberdeen.
Good idea for the Home internationals next year.
timmo - we had the same idea.
Is anything going right in this country anymore???
111 Well I guarantee it won’t be Geoff Thompson.
Listen there is still time for Andora to score.
Time to dust off the old war films for next summer.
NEWSFLASH
McClaren to share hotel room with junior official from HMRC!
Can’t say I’m too upset, the elevation of footballers into some sort of god has gone far enough. Maybe a sense of perspective, financially as much as anything will emerge.
How is Gordon going to spin the England result?
Was it a systemic failure or were they just not following procedure?
Certainly a catastrophic failure…
Tyson Andorra’s Euro Championships Record
Played 29 Won 0 Drawn 0 Lost 29
Another nail in Brown’s coffin surely. What is there to be cheery about??
Oh dear
Tyson just a little bit optimistic mind you russia down to ten men!
How is Gordon going to spin the England result?
Was it a systemic failure or were the team just not following procedure?
A catastrophic failure 2 days in a row….
Let’s look on the bright side: the fat lazy football journalists will have really write about football instead of sitting in press conferences and writing, “Big Mac lashes out etc”.
Russia would have to be down to 3 men for Andorra to get an equaliser..
They think it’s all over… it is now. (Sorry.)
LOL (payback time for the rugby…)
What an awe inspiring display by England. they manage a cocnistsent brand of crap football.
Thank goodness I will not have to watch any more.
Steve McLaren to the Chiltern Hundreds.
still at least Brown’s got what he’s wanted - the HMRC scandal/cover-up knocked off tomorrow’s front pages.
BBC News at Ten: dreadful headlines for Brown
I really do not think it was wise to select a ginger for the English manager’s job
132- Not in the Telegraph =)
Never mind they’ve found the “junior” official, he was found playing at Wembley playing in goal for England. Claimed he had got lost in the post.
134. hear hear
Sell brewing and supermarket stocks.
No Euro 2008 will dent their profits.
Always the cricket to look forward to….but we are crap at that too….
What to do next summer then?
Any suggestions?
122 could almost be the announcement of the first 29 seats at the next general election….
Never in the field of sporting conflict was so little given, by so few over-paid prima donnas, for so many fans.
(with apologies to Churchill)
Doesn’t ANYTHING go right in Brown’s Britain?
re steady on - Euro 2008 is still going ahead. Mind you it’s already buggered up the rowing for next year though.
So much for the Gordon Brown jinx!
Brown pictured laughing about all this on the news won’t play well.
BBC News really, really ugly for the govt. “Humiliating apology” for Brown, focus on cuts as a cause rather than some junior official’s screwup.
138. Estimate is that it will cost around £1 Billion. Add to the list advertising and marketing….. I wouldn’t fancy Umbro shares either….
132. If it was up to Brown, we’d have one football team for the whole UK rather than separate English, Scottish etc. teams. Given how keen he is on ‘Britishness’, I’m surprised he hasn’t proposed this already.
(Then again, given how good Scotland are these days… perhaps it’s not such a bad idea!)
142
Brown is a jinx: see what he’s done to HMCR
Scotland lost. England lost.
Want any more proof?
25 million records lost.
142. He’s still Prime Minister
Just came across a hoot of an advert on UK Polling report. Photo of Mr Darling & CDs, caption ‘Having Trouble with your data? Choose online backup instead’.
(screenshot)
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dbs/advert2.gif
If this culture is from the top upwards, and this posting of information is on cost cutting grounds, then this junior clerk who’s been forced to resign is being David Kellyed. Poor sod.
lest we forget as well that 19 people were murdered in this city 23 years ago tonight by the IRA. We fought that menace without the need for the government (both Lab and Con) terrorizing its citizens and ever more restricting their civil liberties.
BBC news has the ticker tape image of data rolling through the screen complete with Health data. Not looking good.
Oh dear- england out of the euros. The BBC is really hammering Labour. Close up of Brown laughing just look terrible. Criminal government incompetence, and corruption.
Labour lose deposit in Skelmersdale, birkenhead and Hyfield . Tory majority of 645 2010.
ave it…….
145-Thats 1/25th of whats gone to Northern Rock.
Perhaps the good ole BofE can help out all those companies caused financial hardship by tonights result.
I meant hyton, not hyfield
149 look at the top of this page!
Indeed its not comparable in those terms but it won’t do the retail sector any good!
149 its on the front of this thread too …….
re 151 oops can’t count that was of course 33 years ago
146 Alisdair
There is absolutely no justification for four separate teams. Never has been. It’s a historic accident.
The situation persists because it allows four lots of overpaid and incompetent administrators to run footbal teams, instead of one.
That clip of PMQs was not good for Brown.
Any clip of Brown is not good for Brown.
To be fair Brown did much better at pmq’s today, but what does this matter when the TV coverage editing is so awful.
Lame-manager for England
Lame-duck Prime Minister for Britain
One will have gone by Xmas, how long will we be stuck with the other?
The Computer Weekly story posted by Madasafish @ 2 includes:
“The National Audit Office asked for the child benefit records to be stripped of details of the parents, addresses and bank information.
“HM Revenue and Customs replied that it could not do this - its systems were not sufficiently flexible. It explained it could download only the whole of the information. So it sent to the NAO, by courier-post, all of the details of parents and children, including some bank account details.”
What puzzles me is this: even if only unstripped data could be downloaded, it should have been trivial to post-process the data to remove unwanted details between downloading and giving the unencrypted CDs to TNT.
160 Sorry Alasdair. You must get fed up with people mispelling your name.
163. Thing is that many media people will have potentially been affected by this so Brown will get no favours…
160 peter- but without any home team qualifications next summer can we not bring back the home championships. it was always great fun, and I loved that match when the Scots invaded wembley and broke the goal posts.
149 PC World already have a TV advert out for Norton Security: “Don’t lose your identity this Xmas”
For lovers of Putin… click on the topless image on the top right for an audio-visual treat.
www dot zaputina dot ru (I think pb.com spam filters Russian webpages).
134 you have enough chips on your shoulder without needing to dislike another group of people on a random basis. Any other groups of people you’d like to disparage for their genetic make-up?
oh I see, you were only joking and some of your best friends are ginger.. well that’s all right then.
You’ll have Alex Salmond asking the Scots fans to bring back a crossbar and some of the turf!
Who is going to get better media coverage over the next few days in Uganda. Brown or Mugabe ?
The reason why we lost is that our football players do not play with the spirit and passion that they should, unlike our Rugby team who did.
Brown is toast BTW, though not till the next election. Maclaren is toast now.
174 - Nah. The “Spirit and Passion” argument is nonsense and is the reason why idiots like McLaren get appointed in the first place and are always found wanting. We lost because we were tactically incompetent, and that comes from the manager.
171- kingbongo- that is a terrible hand of cards you have been dealt with in life. I am assuming that by being an ex ginger you are now as bald as a billiard ball.
what’s the difference between lewis hamilton and england? Lewis will still have a maclaren in the morning
174. Not according to the FA. They say the players minds were on their bank accounts as they hadn’t had time to change all their passwords.
170 That’s hilarious, SBS!
Mind you, I suspect my PC is thoroughly contaminated now. My McAfee virus defence system went berserko when I typed in that web address.
I guess the KBG now have access to all my personal data, including all my racing form and horses to follow. Still, as long as they don’t lose it.
Regardless of one’s political viewpoint,tonight brings back memories of a Wednesday night in November 1993 when it became apparent England would not be going to the Wordl Cup of 1994-I feel numb,cold,in shock,and now plan to get quietly pissed to dull my pain
Paxman : Could this week be the tipping point for Labour?
345 Labour MP’s defect to the Tories in disgust. Broxtowe MP Palmer donates his cat charity fund to fund local Tory party. England football team demoted to vauxall conference play offs.
ave it…….
176 A famous ginger who became bald was Winston Churchill, of course. Kingbongo is in pretty good company if he can boast the same.
Tyson, Are you alright?
Are the Ave it posts the result of withdrawal symptoms?
177,LOL-thanks Tyson,you’ve cheered me up a bit:cheers mate:wink:
The worst moment in english sporting history.
That is not an exageration. We had the easiest group we have had since 1980 and should have won every game.
Gerrard is totally spineless; he failed against Portugal in 2006 and has failed again. He has no place in England’s team.
McLaren - well you know the word. I cannot believe he has not resigned or been sacked.
I thought Beckham was excellent - he is our best player in a
generation.
I am furious but feel so upset for millions of working class people who follow this team; they are used to being let down but this is a disgrace.
Newsnight terrible for Brown and Labour. Tipping point. Events…
I thought Brown did OK at PMQs today. But the tide and momentum have turned.
“Govt looks tired and bereft of ideas” Crick.
130 - are you French?!
If so: four weeks, you only lasted four weeks, you only lasted four weeks… (WW2 for clarification)
185. The worst moment in english sporting history.
Not even close Ave it. Mexico 1970 - losing to Germany after being 2-0 up in the World Cup Quarter Final with only about 20 minutes to go. All because of Ramsey….
188 Erm…sorry Ave It, me old son, but much as I find your interjections amusing, at times, I think that’s a red card offence.
Off you go.
185- glad that you are back
189. Of course now we the taxpayer are paying for the ‘junior official’ to be kept away from the press. Small fry maybe but still a bit rich. Does Brown no no depths to which to delve?
What next - they’ll claim this censorship is in the interest of National Security?
Well at least Andy Murray will be a happy bunny tonight.
Brilliant point on ID Cards on Newsmight. If someone’s biometric data is compromised. What will they do? - lock them out of all the systems? -tell them to go and get reconstructive surgery?
2 Defections in Derby tonight… during the main council meeting.
1 Labour and 1 Independent join the Conservative group, pushing the Lib Dems into third place.
Both England and Scotland out of Euro ‘08 = 1% off Labour’s next poll ratings as the feel bad factor kicks in.
(I kid you not!)
Further to PMQs. I commented earlier that I thought it was hard to call today’s event and that it would depend upon the media take and editing. Well tonight’s news reports show that they have gone clearly against the government.
Cameron was steady but probing on the issue of ID data. Brown cleverly reduced the initial impact by a preemptive apology. But this scandal has legs. Not looking good for the government.
Something else to also come out of Newsnight that hasn’t been focused on with everything else going on, is the spectacular backfiring of Brown’s attempt to detain terror suspects longer than 28 days.
Once again we find Brown getting himself into a mess, simply because he wanted to put the Tories on the spot and make them look weak and himself look strong. And just as with his election game back in Septamber Brown is the one thats come off the loser!
Labour MP’s must be tearing their hair out behind the scenes. Brown is proving inept, useless, buffeted by events and apparently bereft of any ideas other than “nailing the Tories.” Labour are heading for meltdown under this patchetic joke masqaurading as a Prime Minister.
187 I know it is only OTT humour Ave It, but I have to say that I wish that Britain