Will the new Ken revelations have any impact on the race?
April 3rd, 2008
-
Will this change many votes?
The latest twist in the contest for London Mayor are the revelations that Ken Livingstone has had five children by three different women. However, Ken has dismissed claims that the issue will affect his campaign.
Responding to a question that some people might be shocked by the revelation, he said: “Clearly, I don’t think anybody in this city is shocked about what consenting adults do.”
So will this alter many people’s choices when they cast their votes on 1st May in what’s arguably the UK’s most tolerant city?
Latest prices are here (in the new-look format) - Boris into 1.50 from 1.54 in recent trading.
Paul Maggs “Double Carpet”
Guest Editor
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The longevity of the Ken ‘Five Kids’ Leavingstains revelations, will also depend on whether he has properly looked after the five kids concerned. Has he? Really?
Not saying it’s impossible, but we can be damn sure the red tops are right now researching the mayor’s pacifier purchases.
No.
This story is a non story and will be dead by tomorrow lunch time.
If Boris Johnson supproters really want to start talking private lives I really don’t think your own colourful candidate will appreciate it.
This election is about issues, issues and issues.
No. If it comes down to family values no-one will win. This will be a non-issue. I think Jarvis harmed Norris more than his nickname and that says it all really.
3. Astroturf alert
I hope not. Whether Ken’s private less is a mess or not says nothing about his ability as a mayor.
5. Indeed. Posting twice in a row when you are basically unknown to the site is surely Symptom 1 of Astroturfitis.
Go lay your sods elsewhere, “J”.
7. Get lost! It’s my city and I’ll post where I want to!
6. Character and ability are not unrelated.
I would have thought this will go against Ken. I have no knowledge or interest in his private life but I am surprised that this “story” has not surfaced before. Coming out now at a time when he is struggling in the polls, it certainly isn’t going to help him. It will matter to some voters and Ken needs every vote he can get.
I do not live in London, if I did I would not vote for Mr Livingstone, but this story is an absolute disgrace and the media should be ashamed of itself. It now appears to be carrying out a vendetta and is losing the plot. Who cares how many women he has known, who cares how many children he has by them. Loads of people have been married or in relationships these days, two, three four times over and have children by each. They come from all walks of life. It is a private matter.
And Boris!
No wonder people are turned off politics when this is all that comes up - oops I will re-phrase that.
Of course it could have an impact, if only in resurrecting Boris’s relative image with women. A significant impact? Another question.
Feel free to post away, J. This isn’t a private site.
Hey guys, Gordon Brown’s dressed up as a swastika or something. In case you hadn’t heard.
As always, it depends how it develops.
At a guess - sure it will have an *impact* - these things always do - but not in a big way. I doubt he’ll lose many votes over this. But it does feed the impression that Ken is a ‘man against the ropes,’ buffetted by scandal.
Which can help develop a narrative…
11. This is piffle. This whole campaign has been about character and personality. The left has waged a war of hate against Boris simply for being “posh” - something he can’t help.
Yet Ken, when revealed as 1. a dissembler, and 2. a serial sperm donor, is suddenly offlimits?
Is there a horizon to lefty hypocrisy?
13. I didn’t tell HIM to go away, I advised him to stop astroturfing so obviously. This is good advice, on a politically savvy website - where it is probably counterproductive.
This is getting silly. Other things to do.
Malcolm
16: Sean T, are you absolutely REALLY sure you want Boris Johnson’s private life brought into this campaign?
14 if gordon brown dressed up as a swastika it would fit properly!
14 if gordon brown dressed up as a swastika it would’nt fit properly!
19. “I have a vision for Britain. Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuehrer!”
18. Hell yeah, bring it all in. Livens things up. Better than talking endlessly about bendy buses.
I predict this Five Kids story will run, just for that reason. It’s good gossip - and that sells papers. Next will be the revelations of the womens’ identities, and so on and so forth…
Nasty. But Ken has never been known as Mister Nice.
21 Nieu Labour macht Frei
9. Not entirely unrelated, but far enough apart that one’s privacy should not be overridden.
Malcolm,
In terms of the 20-liberal, 30-conservative thing, it was said in reference to the UK, where Conservatism was very much based on empirical, rationalist pragmatism. I don’t think the same can be said of the ideological and faith-based “conservatism” of the US of A.
Easily done. When I was a lowly departmental manager in Marks and Spencer, Holloway Road we got a new design of towels with two swastikas on. No had noticed until we rang the buying office. The line was pulled immediately
18. One thing this *does* do is make it much harder for Livingstone’s campaign to make an *issue* of Boris’ private life.
16 Feminists will tell you, It is not about Sex, it is about Power.
11 - Rubbish. The media just likes sex stories. Tomorrow’s Sun will run something along the lines of “Ken v Boris who is the best shagger”
Hardly a witch hunt
I can just imagine, if Boris had turned out to have FIVE different children by THREE different women, and he’d kept this quiet for decades, the left would be saying “please, let’s not talk about it, this is irrelevant, private lives are private for a reason, let’s focus on issues.”
Yeah, right.
The fact that Channel 4 chose to make an issue of it, and the othe media outlets have followed suit shows beyond doubt that they think there is public interest - as if we didn’t know that or couldn’t guess - and if so, votes will be swayed.
Whether or not the story should have come out (personally, I don’t think it should), it will no doubt be the sort of thing that a great many Londoners will enjoy chatting about with friends and colleagues. Many won’t be bothered; a good few will not be at all surprised; quite a lot will be bothered and disappointed but wouldn’t have voted for him anyway. The net swing off the story may be quite small.
What is will do though, is reinforce the impression of Ken under pressure; a man who has lost control of the agenda. Even if the story itself doesn’t change many minds, it’s similar to the Conservatives in the mid-90s. While this sort of thing is floating around, it becomes impossible for Ken to get listened to when he talks about anything else. For a man already behind, that is bad news.
By the way, to J and others. Boris’ private life doesn’t matter. This is about Ken, not him, and whether it’s fair or not, you’ll find that the media doesn’t have to be - and won’t be - even-handed in how it covers the two candidate’s personal lives.
The timing is striking - presumably someone has been sitting on the story till the election. Hard to say what the impact, if any, will be, but not huge in London, I’d think.
The dwindlnig band of people who favour limiting sexual activity to inside a conventional marriage are going to be a bit stumped what to do in this election, though, aren’t they?
29: I don’t think Ken forced someone to ABORT his child. At least his relationships appear to have been open and loving. Nothing immoral, nothing illegal. I don’t know what you call forced abortion. I know what I think.
I’ve heard even more exciting rumours about Ken’s private life in the past, which I wouldn’t dare repeat here - but, if anything, I’d expect him to get a mild boost out of the “witchunt” perception among his core.
Re Betfair: Value is probably in laying Livingstone now, rather than backing Boris.
However, anyone who thinks this will *benefit* Livingstone - be my guest and take the money on betfair at 2/1!!
32. lol. Oh dear. Ken’s loyal lickspittles are looking a little stressed this evening.
35: So forced abortion is something to laugh about?
What is will do though, is reinforce the impression of Ken under pressure; a man who has lost control of the agenda.
It depends. The question whether he can make it a “witchunt” story or it becomes a “something to hide - any more skeletons?” story. It’ll take a day or so for this to become clear.
36. You can try and make this story to be about Boris if you want. No-one is listening. It’s what happens when you lose the media - it goes big-time. That’s presumably why this has come out now, as Nick says.
36. It’s this kind of thing that is now gonna get dragged up, re Ken ‘Five Kids’ Leavingsosoon.
http://tinyurl.com/324yab
Ouch.
36: I’m not trying to make a story about Johnson at all. That’s my point. No one in this campaign should be taling about the candidates’ private lives. If Boris supporters like Sean T thinks Ken’s fair game they will only have themselves to blame when the Wyatt and Guppy stories (but to name a few) suddenly get a wider airing.
37. But he can only do that if he can get his side of the story out. How? Through which outlet? If even Channel 4 feels it’s ok to put out an article on what is really something that has nothing to do with his ability as mayor or candidate, and which is likely to damage him, then he can’t have many friends left.
Typically I would say this would have little impact. However, yesterdays poll indicated that a lot of Livingstones support seems to come from women. I have a feeling a lot of women will be shocked at news the that Ken has been putting it about so liberally. ICM shpws that Ken really,. really can’t afford to lose the femail vote and this won’t do him any favours.
136.”If Boris Johnson supproters really want to start talking private lives I really don’t think your own colourful candidate will appreciate it.
This election is about issues, issues and issues.”
I don’t even live in London, if you are not careful you will spin yourself into orbit tonight over this. Boris has already had the Sunday newspaper treatment for his behaviour, as have others. And lets not even mention the nasty negative tactics used by Ken and his chums towards his main rival.
Ken forgot to mention that he had three, yes THREE other children, that does shine a light on his honesty and integrity. Its up to the people of London to decide whether they are bovvered or not over the issue.
Just seen your post @ 36, incredible that you are going to try and attack Boris’s private life now in an attempt to divert the story away from Ken. Nasty and negative…and you and your cronies support this guy. Tnank God I don’t live in London.
40. Yes you are. Every one of your on-topic posts is explicitly or implicity about Boris’ past. You even do it in the post where you say you’re not.
29
C’mon seant don’t play the raw prawn, Ken’s life isn’t off limits, if people feel this is a reason not to vote for him, they will.
Ken isn’t married, Boris is, if you are married, you have certain obligations, being honest and truthful to your spouse etc.
p.s.
Tomorrow is my 38th wedding anniversary, I never had a chance to congratulate sean fear on his engagement, I hope you are as fortunate as I have been sean, all the best!
I think the five-kids-three-wives story is just a marker, testing the water, like sticking an elbow in a luke-warm bath.
It’s not the worst dirt anyone’s got on Ken, but if it starts a debate about immigrant breeding, all the better…
To follow, I reckon there’ll be something which really does test our moral vaules, something really juicy which YouGov were trying to measure the other night.
45.
http://tinyurl.com/324yab
44: I disagree. I’m interested in the issues and Ken’s the best man for the job. Simple. Who posted this post so we could all comment on it? Not me. f people are going to go after the person I desperately want to stay in office I;m going to defend him. If People want to start digging into Ken’s private lives they need to aware of the election this will have on EVERYBODY’S campaign.
What a dull topic. It’s not as if Boris can throw anything at Ken on moral grounds, and Paddick is thoroughly obnoxious.
Back to politics please. No-one gives a toss about this tittle-tattle except that has-been Guido Fawkes.
39. We don’t actually know how much involvement Ken has had in these children’s lives. If he has been a loving and caring father, than i doubt this will effect him that much.
41 - It’s been his basic problem, which is probably why he took to BBC London in the first place. Local TV and radio is possibly the only medium where he can reach most Londoners. The ES won’t give him anything more than is necessary. The Mirror would probably give him some space, which could be useful as far as Labour’s core goes. Of course, he has the Grauniad, but, while it can play its role in influence LD and Green as well as Labour voters, its reach is just too small. His media strategy hasn’t been brilliant. He should have assumed ES hostility during the electoral period and worked out a way to get round it.
49: Hooray! Finally someone talks sense.
This story is likely to swing votes away from Ken (though whether directly to Boris is questionable). The only question is how many votes. The problem for Ken is that some of his strongest support comes from Women and Muslims, two groups of voters who are unlikely to see this story in a positive light.
Three words for our Conservative supporting friends:
BACK
TO
BASICS
The fact this is being magnified to such a degree is also a sign of just how much pressure Ken Livingstone is under in this contest. In 2000 or 2004 this would have had pretty much no impact at all, but 2008 is very differant. Ken is fighting for his political life right now and everything, EVERYTHING is important at this point.
re 34 sounds like Ken’s been doing a bit too much laying himself
49. Then kindly advise all the lefties, who have been attacking Boris as unacceptable “because of his posh background”, to desist.
You guys started it. Ner ner ner nerr ner. Etc. Now you’re getting it back and you don’t like it. Diddums.
Of course, played well, another possible (only possible, I emphasise) factor is that it might undercut the Mayor’s image as the establishment incumbent and allow him to claw back some of the “cheeky scamp” credential which he held in 2000 and 2004, and which BJ has comprehensively commandered next time. He might even be a bit flippant about it the next time it’s mentioned.
54
ooooooooooooooooooo we are touchy, time for your nap?
49 …. in an ideal world. but one person’s tittle-tattle is another’s hypocracy. If it the real Ken is shown to the electorate, Boris will win.
57. http://www.labourhome.org/story/2008/4/1/101156/9784
Reposted from previous thread.
GRAND NATIONAL.
OK now I have researched it and I have placed my first bet. I have backed DUN DOIRE at 25/1 with vc.bet. If he falls, which includes unseated rider, refused, brought down or slipped up then vc.bet will give me a free bet to the value of my losing stake, win or each way up to a maximum of £50 per bet.
Also I have backed D’ARGENT each way at 33/1 with Boylesports who are paying out on first 5 home.
I am fairly sure these two will shorten so probably value at current odds.
57. Oh dearie me.
When does Mike get back…?
58. No. Impossible. And disastrous if attempted. Flippant about fathering multiple children with multiple concubines? When he’s on record blaming bad parents for “moral breakdown”?
No. His best bet is to prove he looked after these kids, then the issue might well go away, and not cause that much damage. But to think he can turn it into a plus is delusional.
54. First you say Ken’s private life shouldn’t be an issue then you like to bring up Boris’ private life or bang on about Tory sleaze.
You can’t have both.
48.Ken Livingston will lose this election, because of this type of nasty and negative campaigning by his supporters. And he deserves too!
His team obviously learnt nothing about the tactics used by the Labour party in Scotland against the SNP.
64: Sean T, Ken doesn’t have to proove ANYTHING to you about his private or public life that’s not illegal!
47
I don’t know what sort of parent Mr Livingstone has been, have any of his children been involved in crime?
Mr Johnson is of course Mr Family Values personified.
54: My mum always told me never to go out looking to hit someone but if someone hits you, you should whack them straight back.
64 - It’s playing high, and would need dexterity; but it’s potentially doable. I don’t think he’ll try it after all, because of the risk of upsetting some portion of the vote - but his supporters might.
39 http://tinyurl.com/324yab
Can we say Livingstone has been a good parent?
I wonder if Mr Al Quaradawi has an opinion on Ken’s behaviour?
more to the point what possessed these women to allow the odious creepy man anywhere near them?
Mr Senior - you’re on for a tenner on 120 tory gains in the local elections (net gains natch). Just so I can be holier than thou I’ll get you to send my winnings to charridy. I’ll email PtP tomorrow.
54 - Three words for our colleague so valiantly standing up for Ken:
WHITER
THAN
WHITE
73: Um riiiiiight? Just when did Ken decide to bring up Boris Johnson’s children as a campaign strategy?
67. What Max Mosley did was not illegal. I haven’t seen the lefties clamouring to defend him.
Character matters. I’d argue it matters more in a politician than in a Grand Prix executive. It especially matters in mayors - who are elected as “personalities” to represent a city - those personalities, and their qualities, are therefore an issue.
As I say, I am sure the left would be making hay if Boris had suddenly confessed to FIVE different kids with THREE different women. You’d be saying “see - he’s an irresponsible Lothario” etc etc. And you’d have a point - a better point than the stuff about BoJo’s Etonian background.
But, hey ho, it’s the voters wot will decide. Half of them women.
Perhaps it will all come out that Nu Labour are Nazis.
Was London Reichs Minister Livingstein chosen as a pure blood to father good voters in the Strength through Joy program?
Every week Zanu NuLab get worse. Britian is not yet Zimbabwe - but there are paralellels
75: Boris Johnson is very much MARRIED, Sean T. Everyone knows (and has always known) that Ken isn’t. I think you thinking this is a story just smacks of desperation. If anything, knowking Ken has a decent brood of kids he loves should soften him in the eyes of many women. It certainly explains why he’s so passionate about the free travel for under 18s, that every new development must have adequate play space for children, why he launches a 20 million fund with DCSF earlier this year to try and get youth clubs open and why he cares so deeply about the future of the planet. All huge pluses with women in my eyes!
I was wondering when someone would mention Back to Basics. As far as that specific issue goes, it was all so long ago that there are no votes in it now. Many people will only have the haziest notion as to what it was about
What is of more interest is how that whole thing happened. Major’s speech wasn’t even really about sexual propriety or family values, but there was enough there to give the media the green light. This was at a time when the media really did feel like kicking the Tory government and there were enough shots in the locker to keep it running for years. The relevance here is that there had probably been a similar number of stories available to write for ages and plenty of chances to start writing them, but it was only then, when the Conservatives were really down, split and incapable of doing much more than day-to-day management, that the media felt ready to run them.
And now it’s happened to Labour. True, there’s probably more leeway for Labour, and Ken in this instance, because there’s not the perceived moral hypocrisy that there was in the equivalent revelations in the 90s, but even so.
Besides, I remember a saying that Tories always get into trouble with sex; with Labour, it’s money - and by and large it has been, though obviously that’s not a hard and fast rule as there are exceptions on both sides. While Tories, Lib Dem and other parties’ politicians won’t be entirely without scrutiny, I think there’s little doubt as to where the bulk of the media focus is at the moment. It does like to kick someone when they’re down.
Just for the record - providing it’s all legal I don’t give a toss about Boris’ private life either.
Dull topic. Let’s hope the final few weeks of campaigning are able to produce something more stimulating than this barrel-scraping on pb - a site which normally sets higher standards.
67 “Ken doesn’t have to proove ANYTHING about his private or public life that’s not illegal!”
If Livingstone is hiding illegal activities in his public or private life, he does not respect the people.
If Livingstone does not respect the people, he is unlikely to Serve the People.
74 - To be honest, I’m not that bothered about this. But it is good to see a party which made such hay with Conservative private lives in the 90s - which explicitly set itself as somehow ‘above’ that - getting tripped up in exactly the same way. And if you’re going to go deliberately misinterpreting what Back to Basics was about, I’ll do the same with Labour’s Whiter than White promise.
69. When did she tell you that? Yesterday.
Yes I remember Back to Basics. Wasn’t it John Prescott who scewered that one?
I don’t accept Coldstone’s distinction about marriage. Its about trust and agreement within a relationship and that can mean different things to different people in or out of marriage.
Just because you are not married does not mean you are capable of being just as guilty of a breach of trust.
From a political point of view I don’t care, unless he has had kids and failed to support them and left them to their mothers or the taxpayer.
77. Is this a joke?! I strongly advise you, as a Ken supporter, never to use the phrase “a decent brood of children” ever again. Really.
I like your idea though: that the reason Ken wants free travel for London’s kids is that he has possibly fathered a large proportion of them, and therefore personally wants to save money.
73 “54 - Three words for our colleague so valiantly standing up for Ken:
WHITER
THAN
WHITE”
5 more
THINGS
CAN
ONLY
GET
BETTER
83: LOL! Exactly, London’s hard working mums need to save money just as our hardworking mayor who TRAVELS EVERY DAY BY PUBLIC TRANSPORT needs to too
75
I think what Max Mosley did was hillarious, but I dont care about it! I was somewhat surprised he payed someone £2.500 pounds to kick the shit out of him, I’d have done it for nothing
As I believe you have a taste for that sort of thing, the offer is open to you! In fact as your Cornish, I’d pay you for the pleasure.
Of course when it comes to sprogs born out of wedlock, Boris has a tendency to have them flushed down the sewer.
Hmmmm perhaps you’d like to comment on Dave’s selling out of the Eurosceptics, looks like your being betrayed before he’s even PM.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/politics/threelinewhip/april08/ascandalindavidcameronsparty.htm
78: ‘Major’s speech wasn’t even really about sexual propriety or family values…’
But wasn’t the problem that Tim Collins, then one of Major’s spin doctors, briefed the Press that it was about exactly that?
Evening all
On topic, it won’t make a lot of difference except as part of the cumulative sense in which Ken’s administration and Ken himself are seen to be a bit sleazy and not smelling too nice so to speak.
Boris won’t win for this reason alone - I’ve said why he will win elsewhere.
As for the Grand National, I backed SLIM PICKINGS at 16s a few weeks ago and am fairly happy with that. I don’t think there’s much value in what I think is a sub-standard race to be honest. The RP suggested MADISON DU BERLAIS this morning as a live outsider and it’s still available at 66s so worth a little e/w.
Somewhat O/T
From Bloomberg.com
Obama Raised $40 Million in March, Twice Clinton’s $20 Million
By Jonathan D. Salant and Kristin Jensen
April 3 (Bloomberg) — Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama raised more than $40 million in March, twice the amount rival Hillary Clinton brought in, according to the two campaigns.
Obama’s March total, announced today by his campaign, comes on the heels of his record $55.4 million haul in February. Clinton raised $20 million last month, according to two campaign aides who spoke on condition of anonymity. She raised $34.6 million in February.
Obama already had about $30 million to spend on March 1, compared with about $11 million for Clinton, a New York senator. Obama, an Illinois senator, has now collected more than $234 million since he began running for president last year.
His fundraising has allowed him to outspend Clinton for primaries in Pennsylvania on April 22 and Indiana and North Carolina on May 6.
Lets face it, Labour got into power on the back of Sleaze accusations.
They milked it for all it was worth.
The Proven Liar Max Clifford made it his priority and worked tirelessly with the Labour machine.
If you thinks calling Max Clifford a liar is libelous, no it isnt. Max Clifford was recorded lying by Louis Theroux’s sound crew
85. I kind of admire your passionate defence of Ken - really. We can all be a little cynical on here, it’s good to see sincere political belief (however misguided in my eyes). Moreover, if Ken can still inspire such ardent support as yours, I’d say he still has a chance.
But this story does damage him. How much - or how little - we will see. It’s more fun than a lot of recent stories, anyway.
It seems things are looking up for Ken. I doubt the morality of this will have the slightest effect despite SeanT’s prurience. After all this is London not Ludlow!
What is likely to have an effect is the one sidedness of the right wing press which is being much talked about and this is just how Ken will like it! The plates are shifting!
91: Why thank you, kind Sir. Seriously, I really think Ken is superb as a Mayor and will be devastated if he loses. I think his policies have been tremendous and, though I don’t like every aspect of him, he’s simply the best.
sparky at 46: “It’s not the worst dirt anyone’s got on Ken, but if it starts a debate about immigrant breeding, all the better…”
Eh?
I see people are not watching the panel from hell on QT tonight then?
87
It would have been a bit difficult, he was f**king Edwina Currie at the time!
86 Hmmmm perhaps you’d like to comment on Dave’s selling out of the Eurosceptics
Betrayed? No. Gordon Brown betrayed the people of Basrah but Davie boy hasnt betrayed anyone.
One battle at a time dear leftie. There’s plenty of time for that sort of thing. He isnt even in power yet.
86 nothing like lowering the tone. Too many offensive posts in the last two days to my mind
95 yes, watching the govt immigration policy being ridiculed in birmingham!
92 a one sidedness of a right wing press would provide balance to the one sidedness of the publicly funded BBC & leftie press (funded by public funded Leftie job adverts)
I think it is pretty likely that some people amongst the Labour core (Christian minorities for a start) will see this as a good reason not to vote for Ken - doubt they would switch to Boris though and Paddick’s lifestyle probably doesn’t do it for small c conservatives either…
98 The lefties are getting desperate. Like a wounded creature, they get even more agressive.
93 - OK you are going too far in quoting Tina frickin Turner.
2 more words
BENDY
BUSES
What are we doing???
97
Basrah? oh you mean Basra!
http://www.answers.com/topic/basra
Get it right sonny, can’t see the connection myself?
No doubt Ken will blame his fondness for “single malt lucozade” for putting lead in his pencil so to speak.
101 - I don’t think many of them will really move against Ken, if they were firm already. My own view is that religious minorities aren’t angered so much by personal behaviour as by policy - they’d be prepared, for instance, to support a gay man who promised to take a hardline stance on abortion.
92 Once Roger pronounces, we know the game’s up for Ken.
At one level, who cares? At another, he becomes a laughing stock, which is always fatal for a politician. Ask David Mellor.
102 I was thinking of the extreme right wing posts as well
Note to J Welcome to the site. To make further contributions you will need to provide a valid email address - the one you have used this evening has bounced back.
Many thanks.
105 Are you really commenting on the spelling of a foreign word?
Betrayal. Gordon Brown betrayed the people of Basrah - as well as the Armed Forces and our wounded veterans.
Betrayal. You know.
(Desperate. Really.)
Any word from the by-elections tonight?
49 - Richard, are we still waiting for your conformation of the Obama bet? Of course if, as you claim, you’ve never lost a political bet, the best way is to try and avoid them isn’t it?
re 92. Roger - please do not knock Ludlow. It is a viper’s nest of vice and promiscuity as well, incidentally, being the gastronomic capital of the middle England.
If Ken can set himself up as the underdog battered by the moguls of the right wing press then I think he’s in with a serious chance. I think he has two workable strategies. One is to go for ‘Boris the useless’ and the other is to show Boris as the puppet of all the nasties including up to and including his Australian guru. We’ll know what he’s got in mind after this week-end.
111
Sorry I mean perhaps I’m being a little obtuse, what Basra has to do with the matter in hand I don’t know. I’m lost! obviously that bolted horse banged your head with its hoof as it ran past.
I asked seant, as a well known Eurosceptic if he’d like to comment on the lively discussion on Conhome over the fact that Dave has seen fit to eliminate well known Eurosceptics from the list of MEP’s. I’m afraid seant has chosen to ignore it.
109 In old days, right minded people would retreat from Leftie abuse.
Right Minded people had better things to do than lower themselves and take part in a slinging match. They had mortgages to pay, families to care for, countries to defend.
It is a mark of the times that right minded people now stand their ground against Leftie abuse.
114 my friends Gran lives in Ludlow, she has never alluded to this
I shall have to ask her about it…..
94 - Nick Palmer, I imagine there’ll be more negative stories for Ken - ie this is not the most contentious that will be heard before May 1.
Re immigrants, there has not been a manifesto pledge on immigration for years. It was shut out at the IDS-Blair elction, got shouted down at the Howard-Blair, and has not featured at all as an ‘issue’ in this London election, even though the people of London have benn most affected by it.
Immigrants do outbreed the indigenous and that is a concern for many including me. Have you ever tried competing for a job where a BME quota exists, or buying property in London where the seller can carrying on renting sky-high to two-to-rooms?
What do you think of the recent Lords report on Labour’s unannounced, never-manifestoed policy of flooding the country with foreigners? I’m much worse off for it and resent Labour’s conflation of race and immigration to silence opponents.
What do you think?
Thank you friends, and it’s back to the Jay April showwwww!
117
OOOOOh you are so brave!!!
117. “It is a mark of the times that right minded people now stand their ground against Leftie abuse.”
By anonymously posting on the internet!
A rare post - things keeping me away at the moment. Watching QT. Have to say, little Dougie is actually a class act - have secretly thought this for a while, but started to doubt when Brown went off the rails. Should have backed my judgement. DA is seriously bright, calm and speaks well. Card marked - I think he will be a key part of the post 2010 recovery. Thought Liddle was excellent on Zimbabwe (but - is it just me - does he look like Boris’ dad?). Teather serves no purpose - I can’t understand why Lib Dems rate her. What have I missed?
On a general level what is it about this London mayor thing and the people it attracts to be candidates?
First in 2000 we had one J Archer selected for the Tories and we know what happened to him.
He was replaced by “shagger” Norris for 2000 and 2004 who never found that his highly colourful private life was a disadvantage.
In 2008 the Tories have Boris Johnson who can probably put even Nick Clegg to shame in this area.
Now we have the news about Ken.
On the beaches, in the pub, on the internet…
on the hustings, on the telly, when interviewing job candidates…
where ever right minded people find leftie Army of the Undead.
It seems very likely that there will be a bit more to this story than just a few extra children who have mysteriously ‘turned up’. I get the feeling we are going to get a drip-drip of revelations right up until polling day.
123 he is excellent at lying and spin but shite at articulating anything sensible
It seems likely that there will be a bit more to this story than just a few extra children who have mysteriously ‘turned up’. I get the feeling we are going to get a drip-drip of revelations right up until polling day
I wonder whether Boris will be on the guest list ??
22-4-2008: Launch party for Ken: The Ups and Downs of Ken Livingstone by Andrew Hosken
At The Gallery at Foyles, 113-119 Charing Cross Road, London WC2H 0EB
Tuesday, 22 April 2008
6:30 - 8:30 p.m.
By invitation only
125
Erm! are you on release from somewhere. ‘cos I’m beginning to wonder if don’t have mental health problems: is it sexual?
Immigrants do outbreed the indigenous and that is a concern for many including me.
That hasn’t been demonstrated clearly. Second-plus generations migrants, plus (possibly) those who’ve been here for some years, start to match average fertility rates (of course, this can be retarded, for instance by those who marry in their country of origin) but this doesn’t represent all migrants by any means.
124. Good point Mike. Do you think I might stand a chance at the next London mayoral? I have many of the vital qualities, it seems.
130. Have quick scan of the GAD reports on this subject dear boy.
127 It will be interesting to find out more, under what circumstances did Livingstone leave these women? Was there a Power Relationship? Has he supported the women & children? How has he supported the women & children? How is his relationship with his own children?
123. Interesting that the language used, and the points made by the panalists, would have a couple of years ago, resulted in a visit from the local constabulary. As much as i dislike the BNP, they have forced the establishment to acknowledge the problems with the tsunami of immigration we have suffered recently.
Ludlow! I visited it once because it was described as the ‘Centre of Middle England’ and in every way it was. It even had two Conservative associations which didn’t seem enough. As for being a hot bed of laciviousness…….now you mention it there were a lot of Max Mosely look-a-likes!
124 - I suspect many politicos judge “charisma” and “larger-than-life personality” by the amount of shags one gets (possibly, a tally is kept at conferences). This might explain how Clegg got elected….
136 Good job Gordon didnt need an election….
115. Roger, neither of those strategies will work, because he’s been trying both on and off since Boris became Tory candidate and is now heading for defeat according to the most recent polls.
Boris the buffoon won’t work because Boris has been working hard to temper that image, and it’s an image the public were well aware of so had already factored in to their decisions. Short of a ‘Well all-riiiight’ moment (not entirely impossible), and if he keeps doing ’serious’ through to May 1, it won’t be enough.
Boris the nasty has even less chance. People don’t even believe that one. Apart from anything else, it’s difficult to accuse someone of being simultaneously frivolous and nasty. The two don’t tend to go naturally together.
You’re missing the main point though. This election isn’t primarily about Boris, it’s about Ken. Ken going persistently negative will almost certainly lose him the election as I don’t think he can win without projecting a positive image of himself.
QT dougie alexader just said crime in peckham was down 20% in the last few years. and they wonder why nobody listens to anything these clowns say anymore….. clowns
QT - Alexander, Liddell and May all good but not world beating. Short actually seems well out of her depth, sad really. For the first time in my life, I think Sarah Teather has done really well especially on Nick Clegg’s sex life and Harman’s jacket.
129 Yep. On release.
It is a good point and leads to the the question regarding Livingstones mental health, sexual issues and drink habits.
As to what kind of Labour Prime Minister would use a SWASTIKA as an OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT LOGO, now that is another question altogether.
For me, Short always gives the impression of having had a lobotomy.
132 - GAD does recognise convergence as a theory. Of course, the asusmptions as to how important this point is are contested; but it is a factor which is worth considering. And I must emphasise that immigration groups are by no means indentical in fertility.
I think Matthew Parris has made the point before - that politicians - male ones especially - tend to be highly sexed people. Why? Because they are ambitious, driven, greedy, ruthless - all signs of a high testosterone level.
A high testosterone level is almost a guarantee of high libido ajnd therefore a lot of partners - unless that libido is rigorously repressed and sublimated into overwork (cf Gordon Brown).
In fact it is arguable that ugly or talentless people with a high sex drive go into politics as a way of getting laid (cf Henry Kissinger - “power is the best aphrodisiac”) - because they can’t go into the arts, sports, showbiz etc - the other route to sexual gratification.
Tangent, if that is the criteria, Lembit must wonder what more he could have done: TWO celebs…
144. Jay Leno - “Politics is showbusiness for ugly people”
This revelation has certainly finished off Livingstone’s chances. His appeal came from his image as a worthy, jobworths type, a bit nerdy but dedicated to his duties - a librarian, a park keeper, the bloke at the rent office. All that’s shattered now we know he can’t keep it in his trousers.
(Johnson’s infidelities, on the other hand, are beneficial to him in that they strengthen his image as this portly, shambolic Byron figure.)
130 - Tangent, it’s only a guess, but I would imagine that immigants from poorer parts of the world will jump at the chance to have children in the relative luxury of State Britannia. For a start, in it increases their chances of being able to stay here should a decent Home Secretary ever be appointed. I’ve no figures to back it up, but from looking at the buggies in Lambeth and the mothers cooing in foreign tongues I would guess this is true.
David. Someone who is going for a third term in a two horse race has to ‘go negative’. Everyone knows what he’s done and if he’s got a brilliant new strategy why didn’t he think of it earlier? It got to be about Boris. He’s such a gaping target it’s just a question of finding the soft spot. Being a buffoon wont work but being useless and hiding himself might.
148. Anecdotally very true. I was in East Finchley playground with my two year old daughter this afternoon, along with dozens of other parents and kiddies. I’d say at least a third of them were not English-speaking.
141
Oh Gawd! Its swastikas now! Its really getting serious.
143. I always enjoy the gentle leftish academic puss*footing of your posts.
‘You say immigration is increasing, well that may be true, but it depends what one means by immigration, and indeed what one means by increasing. If you read Bertrand Russell..’
134 Absolutely. It’s like the last days of Eastern European communism when everyone spouted marxist/leninist slogans but nobody really believed them (and realised that no one around them believed them). Just as no-one really believes now that “Our strength is diversity” or that the existing British population has benefitted from a decade of mega-immigration, but some people in authority will still half-heartedly pretend so.
Hello all, have not been posting much as am on my hols and so missed the nice prices on Obama in Penn and the poll trading around Boris/Ken but hey ho.
As most on here know, I’ve been an enthusiatic size backer of Obama for Dem Nom and have tied up a lot of my capital on that market. It does seem to me right now however that there is more value elsewhere. I’ve added a little to my Boris position but I’m most enthusiatic about John McCain for next president at these prices.
Consider this, McCain’s illness (Melanoma recurrence, heart, stroke etc) premium is remarkably high (Rep Nom), but much much lower than the spread between Republican next president and McCain next president - so there is already a gap that should close, representing value.
John McCain Republican Nominee - 1.05/1.06
John McCain Next President - 2.72/2.74
Winning Party - Republicans - 2.5 /2.54
Now, Looking ahead to the General Election, McCain looks in with a better shout than the 2.5 odds we will get down to suggest.
Rasmussen for example has John McCain leading Barack Obama 48% to 41%. He leads Hillary Clinton 47% to 42% -actually does better vs Obama.
Although we’ve seen different analysis from SUSA, The Rasmussen Reports “Balance of Power Calculator” “shows the Electoral College race remains a Toss-Up. Democrats lead in states with 190 Electoral Votes while the GOP has the advantage in states with 189. When “leaners” are added, the Democrats lead 243 to 240″
Then there’s Rasmussen’s favourable/unfavourable stat;
“Among voters nationwide, McCain is now viewed favorably by 57% of voters nationwide and unfavorably by 40%. Obama’s reviews are 50% favorable and 48% unfavorable. For Clinton, those numbers are 46% favorable, 52% unfavorable”
In conclusion, I think McCain next president is a better home for pb.com poster’s money than Obama dem nom. I think given one can make 25 clicks on Betfair just on the spread closing between Repub win and a McCain win. My money is currently split 20%/45%/35% Obama/McCain/Boris in the interest of value, capital allocation and risk spreading.
Thoughts?
On QT, did I hear right that April 17th theres going to be a Mayoral Special with Ken, Boris and Paddick? Should be fun.
151 As I say, you started well - but now you are just emitting noises, bit like a squeaky leather chair that makes fart noises.
The lefties’ support ofor Labour’s new blue swastika logo is noted.
I met Ken’s first wife christine gosden on holiday a long time ago. Nice woman, she tried to convert me to socialism on a champagne swilling Lake Tahoe cruise.
She said it was his constant philandering which killed their marriage.
The final straw came when at an official labour party do a rough looking woman wearing what she described as a boiler suit approached her and said “are you going home with your husband because if not then I will.”
I should have added on the last thread that the polls are currently indicating the lowest-ever forecast Labour seats (although not quite the Tories highest)
http://www.titanictown.plus.com/bigpic.jpg
153. But did anyone really ever believe those lines? Weren’t they just convenient smokescreens?
In many respects they have been successful too, as immigration has been able to continue for longer and at a greater rate because of them. It’s true Labour figures are distancing themselves from these views now, but they’ve served their purpose anyway.
Interesting that the BBC failed to mention what has motivated Ken’s relevations. presumably the serialisation will start in one of the Sunday Newspapers either this weekend or next (presumably this weekend now the cats out of the bag).
http://www.arcadiabooks.co.uk/bookinfo.php?id=216
It will be interesting to see if there are any further new revelations?
75 - SeanT’s creepy obsession with the far right rears its head again!
160. There will be, you may be sure of that.
159 I think there was a time when they were believed.
The great thing about the London Mayoralty is that if Boris gets in, it really will show up political correctness as a paper tiger. When the Left scream racist, bigot, homophobe et al at a candidate - and he wins - well, the game’s up for them.
How many times has the word leftie been used by see-you-en-tees on this thread?
Politicalbetting.com has jumped the shark.
163. Perhaps they were believed by some of the dimmer elements on the left of the Tory party, but surely not by anyone else.
141: ‘…what kind of Labour Prime Minister would use a SWASTIKA as an OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT LOGO…’
Really? That’s chilling. To think, I was pilloried by some on this site when I expressed my fears about the quasi-fascist undertones of Brown’s first conference speech as leader. It sounds as if my fears were not without foundation, though I wish to God I had been wrong!
163 - and probably for a tolerant society, too.
164. If only there were more contributions full of wit and intelligence like yours, eh?
148 - Of course, some kinds of migrants do start families soon after residence in the UK, but their rate of birth is not constant over time (many econonic migrants, though, tend to be young males without families). To declare an interest, I’m non-white, the son of migrants myself, and was once a baby in a buggy in Lambeth myself.
152 - I’m prepared to accept “liberal”, but not leftish. “Pus*yfootting”, of course, is entirely in the eye of the beholder. Like most political subjects, immigration is better conceptually unpacked than tied up in simple packages.
168 - you can’t expect people to pipe up with quality contributions when the atmosphere is like a playground.
re 158 someone remind me - what happened in May 2006 for the Tories to take the lead for the first time?