Should Andrew Neil be the BBC’s main political anchor?
May 14th, 2008
Surely it’s time for the curtain to close on the Dimbleby era?
Just under a fortnight ago I had a rant about the woeful inadequacies of the BBC’s election coverage and many others have joined the criticism. The antics of Jeremy Vine have been the main focus but these were singled out as an example that something is going badly wrong.
Since then we have two more impressive US primary election nights on CNN and the more you see their output that the more you realise how TV licence payers in the UK are being short-changed. This is an area, of course, where the Corporation’s public service role should be most apparent - covering the democratic process and elections.
Since then I have been pondering on how the BBC should go forward to provide coverage that it can be proud of and it struck me that a key figure is the anchor person - someone with the political skills and expertise as well as being an effective broadcaster able to think on his/her own feet.
There is one name that immediately springs to mind - Andrew Neil who currently anchors what I consider to be the best political shows on the BBC - “The Daily Politics” and “This Week”. He’s the one who could hold an election programme together and simply would not put up with the second, or even fifth rate that is now served up for us.
Neil is a former editor of the Sunday Times and is the editor-in-chief of the Barclay brothers Press Holdings group of newspapers.
Just watching his handling today of the follow-up to yesterday’s Ali D’s statement, PMQs and then Brown’s “pre-Queen’s speech” and you see someone with the competence and the political understanding who could underpin the big BBC political occasions.
The rubbish that the BBC currently serves up to us on election nights has to stop. They should appoint Neil now and plan for a different and substantially better future.
Mike Smithson
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Please god no. Neil is about the most oleaginous presenter ever.
Neil should be banned from tv, imo. Unless someone at the BBC has the wit to make his next co-anchor an attractive, diminuitive young east asian woman.
That would be amusing.
Gordon Brown’s statement was pretty woeful.
Nothing to really capture the imagination and turn the disillusioned back towards the government.
Just a list of focus group inspired twiddling at the margins. Both Cameron or Clegg could have given the same statement without anybody raising an eyebrow.
Brown’s delivery was equally bad. Ken Clarke described it as ‘gabbled’ (bloody cheek!)
I agree in part although I think he does dumb down a bit on This Week. He is certainly capable of higher brow stuff.
1. What if Neil took to using a burka?
Yes, he should. But he won’t.
[from previous thread, to Sean Fear]
75. Yes, if the Tories won a landslide (pretty unlikely IMHO) they would have the moral authority to force a hunting-ban repeal through the Commons. Indeed there is an argument they should do it sooner and quicker, to get the embarrassment out of the way.
This depends, of course, on their mentioning it in the manifesto. Without that I think the moral case would be much weaker.
What the Tories say in the manifesto is crucial. I never want to see another British government reduced to the lies and deceptions of this wretched bunch of repulsive Labour spivs. “We will give you a referendum”. Oh, no we won’t, our manifesto was meaningless.
Ugh. Ugh ugh ugh.
One of the jobs of the next Tory government is to try and restore some faith in politics. That means doing what you say you are going to do, and not lying constantly to the people like a bloody Turkish shoe-shine grifter.
2 - The next election is surely lost when Gabble turns on the dear leader. Heaven rejoices when a sinner repents!
5 - I can see that you’re going to get very disillusioned very quickly by a Tory government.
Surely the new BBC anchor should be none other than Mike Smithson.
…or if the BBC wants comedy value, how about Roger?
Could we get rid of Portillo (in particular) and Abbott from This Week.
I think you might be right in thinking Neil might make a good election result presenter.
I should not worry mike about the LD’s - I think Labour will get more than it’s fair share of silly graphics as one after another of previously held marginals turns Blue at the next GE.
Be glad the LD’s get a mention at all. The LD’s are not really a serious party anyway! Just got to look at the leader to see that:
http://timesonline.typepad.com/politics/images/2008/03/31/18_12_2007_123520_sun_nick_clegg__2.jpg
1 - Completely agree. Neil is woeful - one of the most instantly dislikeable people on television in my opinion. Mike clearly takes a different view on Neil and I agree with him that BBC election coverage clearly needs to improve.
But the problem is primarily editorial and although you might sensibly change presenters too (to somebody other than Neil!), that is not at the heart of the problem.
3 - “he does dumb down a bit on This Week”.
A bit!!! It is dire. I occassionally watch after a heavy night at the pub, but only in the way I used to watch the Word with Terry Christian.
You all forget that the mass public or even the few hundred thousand who might watch the result are not so fussy about how it is presented!
I think they could get away with Roland rat presenting it actually!
To be a little more constructive, I’d like someone like Danny Finkelstein, ideally. Someone who really cares about the details of polling, exits, and swings and understands it all.
7. I would get disillusioned by any government, of course. It’s the nature of governments to disappoint. I’d probably disappoint myself if I was installed as Caudillo of Great Britain, with tyrannical and absolute powers.
Nonetheless I hope no Tory government plumbs the depths like the dung beetles of Labour. Announcing you are going to calla a referendum on the most important issue of governance, and then simply betraying your promise, coz you don’t fancy doing it any more.
Yuk. It’s beyond realpolitik. Labour are the sputum of a leper. You lot have degraded politics for a generation.
No- hes dreadful. Although the media classes love him. My cousin- a freelance producer- tried to enlist him to front a pilot current affairs programme he was propsing and said that he was too much in demand.
ON Topic = yes !
With Vine and Robinson given an extended holiday.
Andrew Neil is arrogant and tiresome.
Jeremy Paxman or Gavin Esler would be my choices.
@ Who are you and what have you done with Gabble?
2, even
Andrew Neil comes across as a bit of a cnut at times! I would not want to cross him if he was pissed off!
15 - Frankly they would do as well to just turn political broadcasting over to the finest on pb.com as we have more of a feel for it and the less smiley obsessed and even-handed would make for heavyweight commentators etc
Couldn’t stand the way he handled the Mayoral debate - was way over the top in the way he went after the candidates as if he was tying to be the star of the show himself.
23. I could do an amusing part of the show where i draw on walnuts pictures of leading Liberal Democrats and Labour MP’s and when they lose their seat i could get a nubile female assistant to crack the walnut between her buttocks!
16 - Not going to debate Europe with you, there is no point.
I reckon you’ll probably be more disappointed with the Tories because they will go back on some of their promises. Cameron strikes me as an arch-pragmatist and will be willing to sacrifice Conservative policies to stay in power.
Just looking forward to your righteous anger being redirected.
The PHI100 are now forecasting a Tory win in Crewe & Nantwich by the big margin of seventy six per cent to sixteen per cent. That’s a dramatic shift to the Conservatives from last week when the panel’s prediction was on a 41-38 knife edge.
from Politics Home
23. Sound idea.
I’d like to present a balanced, neutral and well-mannered TV broadcast on Brussels and the EU question every week. Think I’d be ideal.
Martin Coxall and Philip Magnan could be our correspondents in Islamabad.
Etc.
Politics home have also updated their PMQs score
http://www.politicshome.com/#885
LDs give Clegg 8/10 week after week - what would a monkey with a yellow rosette get ? 12/10 ?
“There is one name that immediately springs to mind - Andrew Neil who currently anchors what I consider to be the best political shows on the BBC - “The Daily Politics” and “This Week”. He’s the one who could hold an election programme together and simply would not put up with the second, or even fifth rate that is now served up for us.”
Yes please! He is by far the best the BBC has got at the moment, I cannot for the life of me understand why they have not realised this and done something about it. He is always well prepared and shows a passion for politics which is often lacking in those that just try to master the confrontational interview technique.
3.James, I think that the different format for This Week and the Daily politics works because it is aimed at taking a slightly different angle on politics to appeal to different audiences watching at different timeslots.
27 - I would be surprised if thats what the PHI100 survey meant. More like 76 of the 100 people now think the Conservatives will win etc.
Polly Toynbee.
He lights the fuse and retreats to a safe distance!
32. Antony King could put a wig on and viola - same visuals and audibles would emit…
Isn’t it about time one of the newspapers or TV stations headhunted Mike?
27. Yes of course - no-one expects a Tory majority of 60% - not unless gordo’s planning a visit!!
I don’t watch TV, but I saw a little of the Daily Politics on the Internet today. That was a right bonnie wee lassie sitting beside Andrew Neil. Who is she?
36 Polly Toynbee
On topic Andrew Neil could not make a worse job of it than is currently being made and if he manages to escape from his current generally poor supporting cast (Portillo, Abbott et all) he may well make a success of it.
On Fox Hunting one possibility, is to devolve the decision to the counties/ unitaries, metropolitian counicls etc. After the conservatives are supposed to be a localist party.
Require the relevant council to hold a local referendum and if it is approved then fox hunting is back.
I think Andrew Neil would be a great choice but even better would be for the BBC to poach Adam Boulton.
Dangerously out of touch judiciary give overweight sentence to political giant :
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/may/14/politicalnews.conservatives?gusrc=rss&feed=politics
Yes he should. Best interrogator bar none other than Paxman.(IMHO)
Very sane.
There is no point in people like you discussing Europe with people like me because - given Labour’s disgusting betrayal on the referendum - you are arguing from a position of complete moral corruption and repulsive ethical abasement. Not a brilliant standpoint.
By contrast I am arguing from a position of utter and complete moral correctness. A much happier perspective.
Also I know more about it than you. Apart from that it would be a fair fight.
38. Foxhunting devolved to councils? Very clever solution. Sounds democratic and avoids massive national debate. Though you would, presumably, still need to pass national legislation repealing the ban.
38. I thought the Conservatives (and most parties) were in general opposed to referenda on non-constitutional issues?
38 - Brilliant idea, so we could force, say, Camden borough council to legalise foxhunting! Sounds great, I can just see the redcoats charging down Camden High St
39. Boulton would be good but I imagine he is on a higher salary at Sky than the BBC could offer and he has a far superior set up at his disposal.
Previous thread 408 “O/T - The by-election planning wasn’t very good, for May 22nd is the Saints day of St Rita of Cascia, who is patron Saint of lost causes and impossible situations. Oops.”
James, I hope every hack that will inevitably steal that little nugget gives you some the credit you for it.
Yeah, right….
45. If the BBC can afford to pay Jonathan Ross so much they ought to be able to afford to get the best political broadcasters. That is after all a far more important part of their remit.
As members may know, I have a recording of every general election since 1964 and thought that the following might be of interest:
1955 - 1964: Richard Dimbleby (3 elections)
1966 - 1970: Cliff Michelmore (2 elections)
Feb 1974 - Oct 1974: Alastair Burnet (2 elections)
1979 - 2005: David Dimbleby (7 elections)
45.I believe he is on a mouthwatering salary at Sky.
Peter Kellner for me.Before MS came on the scene he was the only voice I listened to with the utmost respect.Does he have the broadcasting skills ?
Andrew Neill is a bit of a curate’s egg.This Week is not above a Vine-type stunt of its own.I don’t share the general dislike of Portillo.At least he says things and isn’t bland.I greatly prefer someone who gets everything wrong to someone who never puts his head over the parapet.
Neil is more right wing than any existing presenter is (supposedly)left wing. Safe in an arguementative programme at off peak hours.
Boulton is too New labour (it cost him the non-election scoop to Neil)
23 The Swingometer would of course be replaced by the Ave-It-LOL-o-meter.
It would only need to appear once, as Ave It rushes from left to right of your screen shouting “CONS GAIN EVERYTHING!!!”
42 - As long as you feel moral superiority that’s alright. I hope it is a comfort as the Treaty is enacted.
Sky have a good number 2 in Joey Jones - they should nab him and develop him.
46 - I’m not in it for the fame…. honest!
2
Was it the real Gabble posting. If so he has gone up in my estimation enormously..for now. Brown was dreadful, just like reeling of tractor production figs. It was though he wasn’t to be out of there asap. I have only read Cameron’s reply, but he really does sound like a PM in waiting. Crew and Nantwich might make that wait a little shorter. If Brown is given the et tu Brute treatment, a second unelected PM would be untenable, and a GE have to be called???
Kieran,
New Mexico. Is this really favourable for the Democrats? Primaries aren’t necessarily as damaging as commonly played although Hispanics being organised this year could play a facter. Being a swing state in the Presidential election means Obama will probably swing by there more, which could help.
Colorado also has a big name Democrat who should get a lot of name recognition. I think that will be safely blue.
Minnesota also seems to be trending highly blue, and the incumbent barely won last time.
Oregon. Given that this place is pretty liberal, I think the national trends should give the Dems the edge. Especially as the likely Democrat has a big name.
North Carolina. Seems a tougher pickup for the Dems but the polls are surprisingly close. Could swing in a big year.
Texas. Cornyn has been a close ally of Bush for a long-time, but that might not be as much a disadvantage here as elsewhere - I imagine the bulk of those who still approve of the president are in the lonestar state! Still, a year with high African and Hispanic American turnout could make the difference.
Maine. I felt the biggest issue here could be that the incumbent has promised at both her previous elections she wouldn’t serve more than two terms. Could be damaging in a “restoring trust in politics” year.
Mississippi - who has the spending advantage? I think the GOP must have the edge - the polls give Wicker huge leads. Again big African-American turnout due to an Obama candidacy could swing it for the Dems.
Idaho. I put this more in play because the state GOP was beset with scandal after the incumbent was arrested for lewd activity in
public toilets. There’s also a LOT of undecideds in the polls, which would surely tilt Democrat in a year which is highly favourable to them on a number of measures.
Can’t see any of the others you mention turning. Just too conservative, southern and white.
David Dimbleby is fine IMO, and has at least one more GE left in him. The problem is not with the presenter but the lightweight nature of the content and supporting acts.
52 As a strapped on ‘old style’ Conservative, I nevertheless have to philosophically observe that it probably will !
(Is the line from the Wash to the Severn about to swing north
towards Cheshire ?)
Regards
TB
Mariella Frostrup
60. She’d be foaming at the mouth if Labour didn’t secure a landslide victory.
59 - What, so it now goes from the Dee to the Wash - but in certain areas in the Midlands stays south of the Trent… Hmm…
Margaret Hodge was useless on the daily politics, she kept stuttering, changing the subject, not answering questions, and repeating the same lines over and over. She was terrible, and came off as being out of touch.
61 I’m not so sure. I suspect she’s the sort to gravitate to where ever she thought there was power and glamour. She was spied at the recent Spectator 180th bash at which Boris was feted and Cameron was guest of honour.
63
Obviously been taking lessons from Gordon
65. Cameron really is THE class act now, isn’t he? Head and shoulders above all political leaders anywhere in the country at the moment. How things have changed.
58. Agreed. DD is a bit dull, but its not because of him that BBC election coverage is rubbish, but rather editorial decisions and the fact that the BBC don’t seem to want to spend much money of the show. Did you see the studio they were in for the local elections? It looked like a cubbyhole!
O/T, David Boothroyd is producing a lot of impressive statistics on Vote 2007. It’s absolutely clear that the fall in the UKIP vote, compared to 2004, hugely benefitted Johnson and the Conservatives ward by ward, and the fall in the Respect vote (and their failure to contest the Mayoralty) benefitted Livingstone and Labour in the same way.
There seem to have been a lot of people in Havering, Bexley, and Barking & Dagenham, who voted UKIP in 2004, for Johnson as Mayor, but for BNP at London List level.
53. As long as you feel moral superiority that’s alright:
Well of course he has superiority - he is a Tory! None of your Labourite scum / riff raff who boil their own grannies for glue and eat babies for breakfast!
That first part should have been for 56.
58. I agree. What is needed is a sharpening of the filler material before the results start and then news, results, news, results as fast as they can get them. In 2005, the Beeb were too slow.
Clear and instant graphics.
No waffling response interviews with losing and winning candidates. No “What does this mean for the next Parliament?”.
Just accuracy and speed in results and the clearest of graphics.
And, by the way, let Jeremy Vine go to ITV.
63 - I’d say she was worse than that… did you see when the camera cut back to the studio while that nonentity Labour backbencher was droning on about what a ‘listening’ PM Brown was?… Hodge spent the whole time nodding her head in the most deranged manner (pitty the poor people of Barking!).
2- Gabble- I hope that you can understand now why I put the boot in on Gordon so much, and so early on.
After the election debacle I knew that he was hopeless, and would lead the Labour party into electoral oblivion if he hung around.
I have no loyalty to Brown, but of course plenty to the Labour party, and to keeping the Tories out of power.
I want to see Cameron’s response. I have read the text. Does ANYONE have a video link pls???
65. She was amazingly strange, just kept rambling on, ignoring any question she was asked.
re 2. Gabble..if that really is you.. please, please stay in character.. I need you views from the bunker to keep perspective and to put Broon’s side of the story. Though occasionally ludicrous it is very healthy for the site. As I would add are Kieran and increasingly ed’s and other lefties sensible and rational comments..Otherwise its just Conservative group think with occaisonal irrelevant anti-tory nonsense from Labdemers which isnt really helpful for betting or anything else..
On thread- Andrew Neil is very good (even though he is a rightwinger). It would be good to see him in a higher profile role.
72 I don’t think that Richard Barnbrook could have hoped for a better opponent.
53. Moral superiority is all we have left, we eurosceptics. But it is a fairly intense variety of moral superiority.
I can’t remember another political issue where one party - in this case, the europhiles - has been so obviously cynical, duplicitous, smelly, shameless, and wrong. Maybe Appeasement. But even there the Appeasers were trying for Peace.
Enjoy your victory.
The decision has already been taken - it’s Dimbleby up to and including the next GE, then Huw Edwards will take over as lead presenter on election coverage the following year.
There is a “transition” from Dimbleby to Edwards in progress - Edwards took over presenting The Budget this year from Dimbleby. The plan is for Edwards to be the face of the BBC on all big occasions - hence he will also be doing the Olympic Opening Ceremony this year for the first time (replacing Barry Davies).
70 - Thorough and complete exit polls would be nice… the US networks spend a great deal of time going through the details of the exit polls and its often very insightful.
Another improvement would be some exploration of where and amongst which groups parties are performing well or poorly and in what ways… rather than treating a Labour holding Jarrow in much the same way as the result in somewhere like Edgbaston.
Where can i find an up to date version of the graph that Mike posted at the top of the last thread?
I agree with Mike, Brillo is probably the best of the bunch. But, please, please, please get rid of Abbott & Costello. Replace them with Griffin and Galloway and then you’d have an entertaining show.
Remember Brillo’s Amarillo?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/frontpage/4420385.stm
Entirely agree with Mike - Andrew Neil should be BBCs main political anchor. I’ve thought so for a long time. In fact he gets relegated to out of prime time slots and never gets mentioned in the same breath as Humphrys and Paxman altho’ he’s far far better than either of them. I agree he overdid it for the mayoral election debate - but usually he has a good mix of being able to press home a point with ruthless logic combined with an ability to keep a sense of humour and maintain a basic courtesy. And he knows his brief inside out.
Socrates,
New Mexico. Latest Rasmussen poll has the Democrat leading the two Republicans by 14 and 20 points. He has also been outraising them both combined. Not a nailed on certainty but Democrat favoured.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_senate_elections/new_mexico/election_2008_new_mexico_senate
Minnesota. Franken has been caught up in a bit of a scandal that has set his campaign back.
Texas. A recent Research 2000 poll pegged Bush’s approval/disapproval numbers at 37/63. He is a problem even in his home state. The big problem for the Democrats here is money.
Mississippi. What polls are you refering to? This one, admittedly from a Democratic firm had Musgrove leading 48-34. A Research 2000 poll had Wicker leadfing 47-39, but with massive under-representation of Blacks (only 9% of the sample). Wicker blew Musgrove out in Q1 fundraising and has about a $2m CoH advantage which could be crucial.
http://www.djournal.com/pages/archive.asp?ID=262907
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/12/14/15643/965
Ordinarily Nebraska and Oklahoma would be out of reach but I include them because the candidates are strong. Both young and energetic. Not likely to be enough, but more chances than usual in a change year. Don’t know if you remember the Kentucky race in 2004 where Bruning almost lost after an erratic campaign. That is certainly possible with Inhofe. However if these states did fall they would be the icing on the cake and take a 7-9 seat pick-up into the 11-13 range.
76- it looks like Gabble’s flipped from Brown.
Brown is one of those people that once you flip, you stay flipped (like Thatcher). Blair could always make you think twice. Even Bush has a charismatic side that can charm you back.
Brown- once lost, always lost.
74. Seen a bit on the daily politics near the end, but thats it.
The answer to the question at the top of this thread is, “No, absolutely not, under no circumstances whatsoever.” He is the Gorbals Mick of TV Politics.
74 Its on BBCi
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7400702.stm
80. Huw Edwards? Oh no. That means the transition to innocuous, dumbed down, bland coverage will be terminal.
I agree with the choice of Andrew Neil. He does combine charm with a lack of toleration of any PR b****hit. That would explain why Hopisen does not like him.
What he would do is mock any politician that tried to avoid asking the question. Today he said to Margaret Hodja “You did not answer my last question so we move on”.
But to cut out all the performing seal routines, would he be allowed to stamp out all these “human interest” stunts like Vine and the nonsense that This Week and Daily Politics serves up.
Particularly the deadly dull reports from some town on topics unrelated to today’s news which eats into the time for hard political analysis in the Daily Show?
As an aside, Abbot and Costello are well past their sell by date as they are so out of touch with the pulse of their respective parties.
@80:
I bloody hell. Huw Edwards is just the latest in the long line of smug, ineffective wastes of space poncing around with tenure on public money.
I fear the only real way to save the BBC’s electoral output would be to round up Dimblebore, Huw Edwards, Jeremy Vine, Andrew Marr, and Nick Bloody Robinson, tie them in a burlap sack with rocks and then drown them in the Thames.
I look forward to Robinson trying to blog a positive spin on that, as the silty coldness glugs into his lungs.
86 Yes - very perceptive IMO. He’s a lost cause. And I think he’ss be out pretty soon now - the C&N result could well be the tipping point if it’s as bad as expected.
89. It doesn’t have the entire reply though, only a bit.
78 - Sadly that’s probably correct, I cant think of a worse person to have standing between the BNP and their top parliamentary target than Hodge.
Obvious answer is two co-presenters - the lefties on here dislike Neil so balance him with someone from a left/guardian background, perhaps “Sir” Michael White; there would be fireworks and friction but both are politically aware and don’t suffer fools.
Neil would be an excellent anchor.
But let us never forget other matters need addressing also. Principally:
Jeremy Vine is never to be allowed near CGI ever again,
If they bring back a blog panel they visit them more often,
Updates need to be delivered with electronic speed, not via asthmatic carrier pigeon,
Earpieces should be enabled to give electric shocks to politicians pretending they’ve inexplicably gone deaf when asked why their party is less popular than diarrhoea.
88. Entirely agree Augustus. The guy’s a jumped up, patronising, self important windbag. The fact that he so pointedly takes offence when his surname’s spelt ‘Neill’ says a lot about him.
77.”On thread- Andrew Neil is very good (even though he is a rightwinger). It would be good to see him in a higher profile role.”
Agreed Tyson, and being a rightwinger has never stopped him politically filleting an ill prepared Tory with an added surgical precision. Funnily enough, he manages it in such a way that you are left feeling no sympathy for your own party mouth piece. IMHO that is a good test of political interviewer.
@97:
Jeremy Vine should never be allowed to *breathe* again, let alone broadcast. What an enormous tool.
68 - Martin I really think this is too much:
“None of your Labourite scum / riff raff who boil their own grannies for glue and eat babies for breakfast!”
It is just offensive and not in the least bit witty, but ho hum.
SeanT - I am a europhile but I agree with many of your criticisms of the way europhiles have gone about integration over the last 2 decades (starting with Thatcher). I think it has vastly hurt the europhile cause with the public and will likely come to a head at some point in the future. Was just winding you up a little
On the PM issue. I see no constitutional reason why it should lead to a GE. If Brown died that would be no reason for one. Politically there would be pressure, but constitutionally there would be no obligation. Theoretically you could have 10 PMs in a Parliament.
Off to see the doctor, I’ve just agreed with martin coxall at 92
91, I wrote that before reading Emily’s piece. Off to take a pill as unknowingly used her same Abbot & Costello line.
I would add that Neil went well over the top with Boris but I guess he did that to really test the “favourite” and not give him an easy ride.
London voters who saw it could at least feel that Neil had fully held Boris to account for his words and actions.
Dimblebore would have just said after one non-answer “er oh that’s alright then” and avoided a confrontation.
Today when the union chap referred to Andrew Neil as “John”, Neil said to him who is John?
Neil also does understand economics (ex Editor of Economist).
@102:
He’ll tell you take some paracetamol and get lots of rest.
100 - he’s a better successor to Jimmy Young on Radio 2 than he is for Peter Snow on election night.
Mike, I’m disappointed. If you’ve seen some of the atics Neil has gotten up to over the years on tv!
I just don’t understand your logic. The problem is juvenile coverage: The solution - get rid of Dimbleby?(!) the one part of election show that’s any good. I actually think robinson is alright aswell. The bbc could do with a Tory up high, but Robinson didn’t get carried away on thursday night saying Johnson would win. He does his best to be even-handed. Perhaps King could do with replacing. Might they try and get Kelner?
Dimbleby isn’t very American, but that’s a good thing. It’s very difficult to tell his own political views - Andrew Neil is like an open book - and he’s a commanding interviewer without trying to bully his man. His putdown of Geoff Hoon when he tried to claim that the Tories weren’t having a good night was superb. We don’t need more mach aggression.
The real problem is simple - Jeremy Vine. So get rid. And learn a bit from the Americans in how to present graphics. That’s all that’s needed.
This guy is way too fat to be on TV anyway…
What is it about the BBC that they think Vine is “a star”?
He pops up introducing Panorama with as much substance as an amoeba and his this visual role at election time as the in house performing seal.
Just awful.
Also agree that Adam Boulton could be a better bet as he has more years ahead of him if the Beeb were looking to make a change. Boulton doing the elections, Panorama and QT would be a big improvement.
I fear local election nights are just a dead loss. The totals are of interest, but the district council results in Worksop or somewhere are related to issues to do with bins or something which are not in any way interesting outside the area and which presenters cannot be expected to know about. I don’t see why you all want them to feign excitement about it or pretend it is something it isn’t.
The comparison with US election nights is partly useful (there are presentational techniques, ways of presenting issues etc which we can learn from). But to a large extent it is bogus. The results in North Carolina and Indiana were relevant in that they seriously contributed to who becomes the most powerful person in the world. They had a strong relevance outside those states. Local elections in Britain are part local spats over car parking charges of no interest to outsiders, part glorified opinion poll which is useful in a predictive sense but not in itself a game-changer. With the best will in the world, you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.
I rather think not. There’s a fair amount of guff on This Week, and some of the questions he asks of Portillo and Abbot are risible.
To be honest I thought that Dimblebey often looks embarrassed by the nonsense created for the election night programmes. It is the producers who are responsible for this, and a capable producer who could fix it.
Most importantly, what the BBC have to realise is that the only people watching will be those who have stayed up specially to do so, or insomniacs.
The so-called “ordinary people” who they are, I imagine, trying to make the programme more “relevant” for, are never going to stay up to watch, and if they ever did, it would only be because they were, a priori interested in the results, not because they wanted to hear the verdict of random drunk people in a pub.
I don’t think this is under Dimblebey’s direct control, so replacing him wouldn’t make a rat’s arse of a difference.
[109] - The coverage of the general election results in 2005 was hardly stellar.
OT, quite interesting though:
Economist briefing on the 10 year anniversary of the Euro.
http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?source=hptextfeature&story_id=11362788
what you’re describing about the idiotic coverage is i think just the BBC’s (and other broadcasters) latest reflection of a long standing tradition that assumes (probably correctly) that the “average viewer” has the mental age and education of a 14 year old, when it comes to analysing news and current affairs. look at the 6 o clock news. it is so patronising and talks to the viewer as though they are fairly bright children - no more than that. Any more, and it might be seen as heaven forbid, “inacessible”.
The local election coverage was that principle taken to its logical conclusion.
85. Turns out the site I was looking at had listed the last election figures as polling when they had no polling data! Do you have any good summary sites?
So, hey, good news for me in New Mexico and Texas. The underrepresentation of blacks won’t make too much of a difference seeing that the poll did weight by party allegiance, but its a possibility I guess. Franken’s tax scandal in Minnesota doesn’t appear too damaging, seeing he’s paid back everything that was owed.
101.”Theoretically you could have 10 PMs in a Parliament.”
But it is not constitutional reasons that would skewer a political party who clung to that position, more likely the electoral viability of taking that position would prevent them. Go on, try it.
Corrie’s VERA DUCKWORTH stumps for Dunwoody in Crewe & Nantwich;
http://snipurl.com/28u1i
Definitely a better idea than muppets in top hats or hoodies!
Apparently went down very well.
Andrew Neil is the best by a mile. He listens to answers then frames his next question (seemingly a basic requirement but amazingly rare). He thinks on his feet. As to being right wing - he does not allow this to hamper his professionalism. To my recollection he is the only interviewer to get Cameron to lose his temper and snap petulantly (early days of DC in DP).
Apart from Neil a complete clear out. Get younger, quicker minded people in: Nicky Campbell and Simon Mayo for inst.
GOP adopted a new slogan for November: “The change you deserve.”
They’re panicked after losing the special election in MS last night. Republican Tom Davis argued that the Republican brand is on the floor. Suggestions among moderates, pragmatists and fiscal conservatives that McCain was ahead of the congressional parties and they should start taking a leaf out of his book.
That’s not going to go down well with the religious and social conservatives!
114 - On Mississippi would have thought racial weighting would matter. White Democrats would be far more likely to votee Republican at federal level, I would have thought.
Don’t have a very good site in terms of simple collating of polls, let me know if you find one. There is a good Democratic site that does round-ups:
http://www.senateguru.com
It includes a lot of rhetoric, but usually reports all the polls. Rasmussen and SUSA seem to poll most. Rasmussen have a Senate polls page. However polling does not seem to have really started yet to any great extent.
116 - Vera does a lot of campaigning for Labour, was involved in both the Hartlepool and Hodge Hill elections… the same is also true of Patrick Stewart!
119 I don’t know how different polling is in the US from here, but weighting by ethnicity didn’t make much difference to Yougov’s findings in the London Mayoralty.
Latest Gallup Presidential and Primary Polls :
McCain 45% .. Clinton 48%
McCain 45% .. Obama 46%
Clinton 44% .. Obama 50%
http://www.gallup.com/poll/107278/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Maintains-6Point-Lead-Over-Clinton.aspx
119. “On Mississippi would have thought racial weighting would matter. White Democrats would be far more likely to votee Republican at federal level, I would have thought.”
A generic statistical Democrat in Mississippi is probably going to be black. I would guess about two thirds of them are. So the poll is favourable to the Republican, but not by much.
123. Also that Kos article says that Bush won 14% of Democrats last time round and 10% of blacks, so it wouldn’t be a huge difference.
I have a post held in moderation pointing out that a generic statistical Democrat in MS is probably black also.
121 Are you thinking UKIP will be rubbed out at next years Euros
112. This was most interesting:
To forward this aim, the Commission suggests that the peer review mechanism under the EMU growth and stability pact, now focused on member countries’ medium-term budgetary strategies, should be broadened to address macroeconomic imbalances. “The experience of the first decade shows that economic policy decisions in one country may have important effects on others,” said Joaquín Almunia, the EU commissioner for economic and monetary affairs. The growing interdependence of euro area countries means that developments within member states such as persistent inflation differences and growing current-account deficits can have spillover effects on others, and eventually subject EMU to serious internal strains. “Enhanced surveillance,” says the report, “would help the affected countries to devise early responses before divergences become entrenched.”
So it looks like a stronger movement towards common fiscal policy. Something that was denied as a eurosceptic scare tactic when the UK’s euro entry was discussed.
124 Given it’s the one set of elections in which they’re relevant, I expect not. I could see them falling back to the sort of support they had in 1999, though. Outside London, surprisingly, they pulled off a few decent local election results, this year.
“So it looks like a stronger movement towards common fiscal policy. Something that was denied as a eurosceptic scare tactic when the UK’s euro entry was discussed.”
But, which is entirely logical in the context of a common currency. Currency unions either progress towards full fiscal union, or else they come apart. If this proposal is acted upon, I think it more likely than not that Italy will pull out of the Euro.
“U.K. house prices had the most widespread declines in April since at least 1978, the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors said earlier this week.”
I believe Mark Senior wrote last year that I was wrong when I said last year that there will be a house price crash in 2008!
If the worst decline in at least 30 years is not a harbinger of the start of a crash I do not know what is.
Meanwhile Ms C. Flint (mysteriously attractive to others on here) says that a price fall will at best be 5% to 10%. Therefore the Govt conceives it possible that “at worst” it could be a 10%+ fall!
O/T
In the USA the Republicans have their own problems!
from Bloomberg
House Republicans Say Mississippi Loss May Signal More Setbacks
By Laura Litvan
May 14 (Bloomberg) — U.S. House Republicans said an election loss in Mississippi yesterday may portend widespread voter rejection in the November races, and some are advocating distancing themselves from President George W. Bush’s policies.
At a closed-door weekly meeting of all House Republicans this morning, Representative Tom Davis of Virginia distributed a 20-page assessment of the party’s prospects, telling reporters later that it warned that following the “same-old, same-old is a 25-seat loss.”
Republicans are increasingly concerned about their election prospects after Democrat Travis Childers yesterday won a Mississippi House seat that Republicans had held for more than 13 years, the third time since March that a Democrat won a Republican-held seat in a special election.
“There is a lot of heartburn and anxiety,” said Representative Ray LaHood of Illinois. “People are very concerned.”
House Republican Leader John Boehner said leaders will meet later today to discuss the impact of the Mississippi result. In response to a question, he said changes at the National Republican Congressional Committee, the party’s candidate recruitment and fundraising arm, are under discussion.
“I expect we’ll discuss changes that may be necessary to address the atmosphere we’re facing,” Boehner said. He called the election result a “wake-up call,” and said the problem is that voters aren’t seeing the Republican Party as a force for change.
Childers got 54 percent of the vote to 46 percent for Republican Greg Davis in the race to replace Republican Roger Wicker in northern Mississippi’s 1st District. Wicker was appointed to the Senate last year
126 So say six MEPs
Yes, Andrew Neil would be a great improvment on the present regime.
121 Yougov argued that not weighting by ethnicity and their earlier incorrcct weighting of over 55’s had no effect on the published figures bevause these weightings were subservient to the part ID weightings . The March polls that were taken before Yougov corrected their weightings did give Boris a larger lead than the later ones but there is no way of telling if there was a late small swing away from Boris to Ken .
128 HF we did discuss house prices last year but did not agree on what constitued a price crash , I certainly don’t accept that a fall of 5-10% in the light of the msassive rises of the last few years is anything more than a necessary and timely correction . House prices could not carry on rising at the pace they were for any long period of time .
130 They won 3 in 1999.
131 Getting a correct weighting for ethnicity in London would be problematic, as the proportion of non-white voters who are (a) qualified, (b) registered and (c) willing to vote would be considerably less than among white voters.
Andrew Neil, Mike?! Good to know you still have a decent stockpile of whatever you were smoking when you recommended Tessa Jowell as next leader of the Labour Party!
I think Our Genial Host would do a far better job than anyone at present, although I don’t mind the Dimblebies as much as many. If there must be a less serious host, Matthew Wright usually gets more from his guests than they were planning to give him, though he thrives of having the live studio audience, which I wouldn’t want to see on BBC again (after the Andrew Neil-hosted Mayoral Debate).
A genuine and serious suggestion, after his performance on the recent election night, would be Iain Dale , at least as one of the commentators (alongside Baroness Helena Kennedy for the left?), although I’d be happy to see him as the lead presenter too.
Hell no. Oleaginous (post 1) is right. Remember his awful chairing of the Mayoral debate, which seemed to be all about him, not the candidates. The Dimblebys are OK, IMO - the problem is whoever designs the programmes, not the presenters.
119/123 - I would say that the racial differences in America are starker than they are here. Democrats get 80-90% of the Black vote. There are also a lot of white Democrats in the south who regularly vote Republican. Not sure if it would have a major effect but it certainly raises question marks when there are few other polls.
133 Could not the same factors also apply to young white voters .
116. Corrie’s VERA DUCKWORTH stumps for Dunwoody in Crewe & Nantwich;
Those pro-Labour z-list ‘celebrities’ always come out at election time and tell people not to vote for the Patriots. The worst is that lady-boy from Corrie (Haley I think her name is).
Don’t these overpaid luvvies realise that the public HATE people telling them who not to vote for. It’s the same with Hollywood Liberals. Stick to bad acting and keep your snouts out of Politics.
Ironically……when they attack the Patriots it give us publicity and our vote share goes up.
Socrates and Morus, out of interest how many seats do you currently think the Democrats will gain in the Senate?
132.Mark, I could be wrong, but didn’t you dismiss that kind of fall happening at all, never mind whether it constituted a price crash?
137 (b) and (c) certainly, particularly young Eastern Europeans.
116. If all Labour have got is Vera Duckworth who clearly knows very little about the state of the nation pre or post 1997 then God help them.
136-But likewise what % of the black vote does Labour get here?
You have missed the point here entirely - the problem is not with the name of Dimbleby, it is just that they have the wrong one.
If they had Jonathan Dimbleby on the telly and DD on the radio, then things might improve substantially..
132
We are NOT in a house price correction. A correction is a fall of under 20%.
Over 20% and it’s a crash (iirc these are stockmarket definitions).
With mortagge lending on new loans down 50% year on year, we are looking at a train crash…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/05/13/bcncml113.xml
As for house builders..
“Housebuilder Barratt Developments delivered more gloom from the frontline of the UK’s slowing property market today, after reporting a 33pc drop in the number of sales agreed each week, compared with last year.
Indicating that there could be worse to come, Britain’s second largest housebuilder said there had been a marked fall in agreed sales since the end of March - helping to push sales down by more than 5pc so far this year.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/05/14/bcnbarratt11.xml
Redrow are doing as badly.
“Redrow said it had already laid off 15pc of its workforce, about 200 staff, and hinted at further cuts following a disappointing spring selling period. Spring sales - traditionally one of the busiest times of year for the industry - were even worse than the group feared as the squeeze on mortgages intensified.
Redrow said the housing market had got significantly worse since Easter. Reservations were about 50pc lower than the same period last year as buyers struggled to secure a mortgage. Cancellation rates had been running at 20pc, but had “markedly increased”, it added.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/05/14/cnred114.xml
With such a slowdown, a 20% fall in the next 9 months is possible.
Mark Senior well if the biggest drop in 30 years is not a crash then we have not had a crash in the past 30 years!
(tongue in cheek, one month is not a year, but it could soon become that).
138. Never having watched one second of Coronation Street I dont know if her intervention is likely to have any impact…
Distraught that Patrick Stewart is a Labour supporter though…until now one of my favourite actors of stage and screen..I guess I will now need to burn all my old Star Trek videos..poor misguided fool..
Whether b list celebrities have any impact genrally who knows..when feeling low I still remind myself of that stomach churning letter published in the guardian supporting ken and where the biggest celebrity they could muster was that hairy little git who played Baldrick in Blackadder ..that always brings a smile to my face..as does th ememory of the Zoe williams article..
135. Nick Palmer
Were you in the house for the statement?
Not exactly a clarion cry, was it?
On Vera I think people are missing the point. Of course it’s not going to persuade opponents but it may help with GOTV.
My central problem with Neil’s interviewing technique is that when he attacks Labour politicians it’s always for being too left-wing and when he attacks tories it’s always for being out of touch with their grassroots. He may be very tough on both, but I don’t like the angle he always comes from.
There’s a real skill in Dimbleby’s prodding - remember how he angered Clinton, but people seem to want a personality who makes sure he washes over the screen - but what good is that?
Neil’s handling of the BBC London Mayoral debate was spot on. He has followed politics and dealt with politics at a top level every day of the week for years. Also contrary to what some people say, I don’t think he ever lets his own politics get in the way. He’s equally difficult for a politician to face regardless of their party. Book him in.
145.
Take a look at http://www.propertysnake.co.uk if you want to know whats happening in your area. Its not good….
127. Totally. The natural endpoint of the euro is, essentially, a Federal Europe. The eurozone is a suboptimal currency area, so it will fall apart unless the members proceed - fairly quickly - to full politial union, where the stresses and strains are shared out equally, taxes are harmonized, and one country cannot refuse to subsidise another, etc etc.
I hope the euro works. I think Britain will, now, never join it. As it gets evermore obviously Federal, the chances of us voting to go in actually recede.
The next few years will certainly be crucial for the euro. I just saw a report saying Spanish property prices are plummeting by 30% a year. Ouch.
149, I hope not.
People shouldn’t vote based on celebrity or because a woman shows her eyes can leak, but based upon the relative merits of the candidates’ characters, and the measures they support and wish to enact.
Voting for someone because a famous person supports them is moronic.
T