How much of an issue is McCain’s eighth decade?
August 8th, 2008
Could viral videos like this start to have an impact?
Over the past couple of weeks there’s been a bit of a move back to John McCain on the betting markets. Obama’s overseas trip, particularly the mass rally in Berlin, has not gone down well and the presumptive GOP nominee has been deploying what appears to be an effective attack strategy against his Democratic opponent. But still, I believe, McCain is weak on one of the things he can do nothing about - his age.
Almost from the start of this election process I have argued that the inevitable slowing down of responses and decline of the memory function as you grow older, would increasingly become an elections issue. How can you have a Commander-in-Chief who is in his eighth decade?
Well the above viral video is now doing the rounds and makes the case for me. As it gets closer to the election and it starts to get really dirty then the Obama camp have a mass of material to play.
If you are betting against Obama then do so by laying the Democrat on the betting exchanges or selling him on the spread markets. Don’t put a back or buy bet on McCain.
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#Grandad we love you#
“How can you have a Commander-in-Chief who is in his eighth decade?”
It’s been done before in pretty recent memory.
But age hinders him in an election which he himself accepts is about change - because change and youth are fairly interchangeable for many voters.
re 2. The last time the Republicans put up an ageing war hero, Bob Dole, it didn’t work for them.
Dole, however, found a new career afterwards as the public face of Viagra.
McCain is, of course, even old than Dole was then.
There’s no fool like an old, bad-tempered, flip-flopping fool.
3 - I was referring to Reagan really (not the war hero bit but the age).
Mike, you must be talking about “The White-Haired Wrinkly Guy”, Paris Hilton’s rival.
3. McCain is 13 months younger than Dole was when he ran for president in 1996…
Has Miliband gone off at half cock? I’m becoming more inclined to believe his protestations that the Guardian article was not meant as an immediate challenge to the Prime Minister but was putting down a marker to establish him (and not Harman) as heir apparent.
It’s the economy, not Brown’s fingernails. Miliband knows that, and now even his more excitable fans have gone off the post-Brown bounce theory and are starting to argue no election will be needed (eg Kettle in the Guardian).
And, as floated on the last thread, if the Russia/Georgia/South Ossetia row kicks off, the Foreign Secretary will need to earn his money, and could see his ambitions dashed prematurely.
don’t bet against Obama. you will lose!
If McCain makes a similar slip in the televised debates he will be finished…
10 — Hey, Bush could only get through the Kerry debates with a secret radio mike in his ear, and he still won.
No issue at all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jack W is in his eleventh decade.
3 - Dole is an interesting comparison though in that he, like McCain, lost out to a Bush for the Republican nomination eight years earlier.
As you say, he was also a much older war hero.
They also both have minor disabilities which make them appear rather odd and awkward in public (Dole’s paralysed right arm and McCain’s inability to raise his arms) - sad that this matters but it does leave an odd impression with people.
So a lot of similarities there I would completely agree.
Reports of Russia sending 115 tanks into South Ossetia. Tblisi saying that it may be in a state of war with Moscow.
Has Milipede made a statement?
There’s something in this, I think - I like McCain personally more and think he’s a better candidate than Mike does, but I’m struck by the difference between Obama - clearly in his prime - and McCain, who gives the impression of someone gamely still in there pitching despite his age.
I wonder if politics generally in Western countries is gradually shifting with the demographics, though. The Kennedy days of ‘we are a young country’ may resonate less when a large proportion of the voting population is over 50.
Had a glance at previous threads and see Marcus being monstered by the usual suspects for not being sufficiently EUphobic. It’s always impressive to see candidates who are steady under fire whether you agree with them or not. By my standards Marcus is pretty Eurosceptical but he came out well and I hope he won’t be deterred from posting - as usual, posters who lose their tempers alienate the audience.
BannedHorse @ 11 re Bush’s earpiece.
Was that ever proven? Or admitted?
15. Posters who lose their seats will no doubt soon stop posting.
On topic: everybody makes a slip now and then, Freudian or not. But McCain seems to have made quite a lot (Czechoslovakia, for example). If people don’t think his memory’s all there, surely they can’t vote for him?
Sorry to go off topic but Michael Brown in today’s Indy has a funny piece on the problems facing GB when he troops up to Balmoral in a few weeks time. I especially liked this bit where he surmises the conversation when Gordon tells her that he’s had enough and is going:
Perhaps the Queen’s response might be: “What about that chap who came to see me about the Budget – Darling? He’s not standing is he – I know you made him Foreign Secretary recently and, after all, you do say it’s only for a couple of months. Would he do?”
@15:
Who do you think lost their temper?
Let’s just say I found it very… courageous… for a Tory PPC to be on record, saying what he said about the EU.
14 - He’s on holiday isn’t he?
OT — re Olympics. Does Huw Edwards not realise we can see the pictures?
18 - But he’s not an elitist!! :sarcasm:
BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS **** BREAKING WIND NEWS
The breaking news is that WIND is reporting to JNN the contents of a new ARSE (BUTT) poll of polls that indicates :
McCain 45.5% .. Obama 50.5% .. Others 4%
The PISSED Jack W Index with added SOAMES BIG MAC weighting shows :
McCain 157 .. Obama 247 .. Toss Up 134
Changes Since Last Projection - Oregon and Wisconsin move from Safe Obama to Likely Obama.
Toss Up - Up to 5% .. Likely - 5%-10% .. Safe - Over 10%
Eliminate Toss Up States - 270 required for an Electoral College majority.
McCain 202 .. Obama 336.
Obama is the 44th President of the United States of America
……………………
Sources :
WIND ….. Whimsical Independent News Division.
JNN ………..Jacobite News Network.
ARSE …… Anonymous Random Selection of Electors.
BUTT …… British Underpinned Tracking Totals
PISSED … Political Intelligence Seat Selector Election Determinator
SOAMES …System Of Amending Measured Election Scores
BIG MAC ..Ballot Indicies Grid Manifesting America’s Choice
21, well if he is he can still make a bloody statement. War’s broken out in the Caucuses, the Red Army’s moving into Georgian territory (90% of South Ossetians have Russian passports, a useful pretext for Russki involvement) and Milipede is sunning himself god knows where. Very useful.
22..it would assist if they all shut up and just let us watch.
25. Big chance for Miliband to make a headline speech ?
Russia/Georgia may be bad for Obama as well as Miliband.
Reuters: The Russians are bombing an airbase near Tbilisi..
25 - Yes but the more important question is who is holding the fort whilst Her Majesty’s Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth affairs is holidaying/plotting in Spain? These statements are usually so similar it is almost as if the FO has a fill in the blanks form. Surely there is a Minister of State around that can put out a holding statement.
27, chance? Ha. Remember his mighty presence over Burma, or Zimbabwe?
Nevertheless, the Foreign Schoolboy has a duty to make our position clear. If things continue to heat up an unfavourable comparison of Labour Vs Conservative ways of dealing with Russia (harking back to Thatcher and the Soviet Union) could take the wind out of Milipede’s sails.
28 - Clutching at straws there (waits for McCain gaffe about Georgia).
29, thought that happened a while ago? The Georgians say they’ve shot down 2 Russian jets.
The media still need to fill three months of campaign coverage, two of them in the campaign proper. Given that McCain seems to make several gaffes that you could put down to age every week, it’s hard to imagine getting to the election without his age being the talking point of the week.
So the question is, when the media finally do get around to talking about it, how much damage the senility charge will do. I’d say he’ll probably survive and put it behind him (although obviously he isn’t going to make himself the “change” candidate this time), but there’s a substantial chance - maybe about 1 in 4 - that it’ll stick and finish his campaign off.
33. The Georgians are now saying they’ve been “invaded” by Russia..
27. Bugger a speech from Miliband, what do McCain and Obama have to say? After all, it was the US that helped train and supply the Georgian army…. very nearly a client state…. so how would the candidates handle it?
35, if the reports of tanks are true then your ivnerted commas are superfluous.
South Ossetia isn’t recognised by the international community. If Germany bombed an airbase outside Paris and then sent 115 tanks into Alsace what else but an ivnasion could it be?
35. Thank goodness that dreadful Mr.Yeltsin was replaced by the wonderful democrat Mr.Putin.
Agree with Nick. With an ageing population, I think this line of attack will not be as effective as some think. Everybody slips up over words but it does not mean they have bad judgement. I like both Obama and McCain and they both have pros and cons if we are honest. At the end of the day wisdom is more important - the ability to use experience to weight up the feel of issues. Both if they become President will have many advisors and experts briefing them, the issue is knowing what to do. I do not beleive that McCain will be any the less effective than Obama in that respect.
37. The complication is that the Russians regard this as a ‘Kosovo’ situation.
35
Where is the British Expeditionary Force?
32. I’m just waiting for Bush to say “we’ll stop them at the Alabama border”.
41 - Where isn’t it, we seem to be mounting expeditions all over the show?
41 madasafish. In the poppy fields of Belgium and France !!
Hang on, haven’t we been here before? A war breaking out in a place that no one had heard of and no one could get to as a Presidential election was reaching its climax? Oh no, how silly of me, that was the premise of Wag the Dog.
44. Good tank country, Belgium.
Come to think of it, that’s all it’s good for.
40. The same might be said of the Russians’ attitudes to most of their newly-independent neighbours.
46, you missed out truffles and evil bureaucracies.
46 - Don’t forget the eponymous bun.
I’ve no idea how worrying or important this Russia/Georgia situation is in international political terms? If it is a major development in those terms, then it plays to McCain’s “Commander in Chief” strong suit. Might we see the polls and the betting shift?
I sometimes wonder, if WMDs were expected to be launched against this country, whether I would spend my 45 minutes hurtling towards the nuclear bunker along with the rest of a panicking nation or whether, more likely, I would spend the time logged on to Betfair adjusting my various positions!
re Nick & 39. I think the fact that there is an ageing population works against McCain. The older you are the more you appreciate the limitation created by the ageing process.
There is another factor as well - we live in the age of YouTube and viral videos and instant communication. McCain can’t use a PC.
Even Gord has now got his own YouTube channel.
re 50. No StJohn - you would be posting here.
How would the imminent demise of humanity affect the Labour leadership and that sort of thing.
New Rasmussen poll for Washington State :
McCain 42% .. Obama 52%
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/washington/election_2008_washington_presidential_election
50 - Rather it exposes his supposed strong suit in the way that Afghanistan and Iraq have blown him ideas out of the water.
When McCain starts to be the centre of attention then the election is properly on, these who say that this election is about Obama only do so because they are scared of their own candidate’s weaknesses being exposed.
Do. Not Trust, Them.
51. nor could Blair and he managed to come across reasonably well.
in this day and age, lots of time on youtube and the internet in general = a missed opportunity to do something useful with your life. which coincidentally also implies disengagement with the political process.
Oopps…. Obama figure is 54%.
Several “Senior Moments” in that video - he make Ronald Reagan look on the ball
46 - Chocolate, beer, diamonds, pate, mussels and chips all spring to mind. And kings with a high vowel to consonant ratio.
Latest Rasmussen Tracker :
McCain 46% .. Obama 47%
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
Useful cover for an invasion, that Olympic opening ceremony….
Will Gordon pop up to give a statement, robbing Miliband of a chance to look all grave and serious?
Reagsn was showing clear signs of losing cognitive ability throughout his presidency. With a weak willed candidate like McCain there is a real danger of the shadowy figures behind him using him as a puppet. The way that he appears to have been Rove-ised and has flip flopped on many positions suggests that he has already been got at.
52. Mike. Yes. And I would probably sell a 2010 election.
Dunno about McCain, but Putin is only in his fifth decade and is on the march. Where? In beiging of course.
56 - Signs of age?
55, Blair was a class actor though. A traitorous smirking turd, but still a really good actor.
Checked the BBC story about this, apparently Russia sending 150 tanks into Georgia is less important than the Olympics. A few quotes from various sources, but not a word from Milipede or any other government source.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7548715.stm
50. St. John. If I remember correctly, the late breaking opinion polls picked up that the unrest in Pakistan following Bhutto’s assassination on 27 Dec and the political uncertainty following was a key factor in helping McCain get a tie for 3rd in the Iowa’s caucus a week later, and he has of course made his infamous comment about Putin before.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2007/10/16/mccain-sees-something-in-putins-eyes/
FWIW I’ve just put a couple of quid on Colin Powell for VP (either party) with Paddypower at 300/1.
64 James B. How so ….
Jack W is a sprightly 105.
46 b. We’re back to Belgian jokes I see!
63 “Putin is only in his fifth decade and is on the march. Where? In beiging of course.”
It’s true - Putin has coloured more things beige than any other Russian leader.
Everybody and everything you know is wrong.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7540649.stm#nudge
How Dave plans to control everything you believe, think and do without you even knowing it.
65 - I think you have just blown a couple of quid there. Powell has made it clear he isn’t a McCain fan, while Obama will go for Wes Clarke if he needs a military man (mainly because a black candidate double is risky stuff but also because Powell was part of the Bush administration even if he became semi detatched).
66 - I still wouldn’t go to the exhibition linked below, you might get mistaken for an exhibit
http://www.wellcomecollection.org/exhibitionsandevents/exhibitions/skeletons/index.htm
70. Yes, it’s 99.66% likely that I’ve blown a couple of quid.
69 - The Economist had a good article about this the other week. My concern about the “nudge” stuff is that it plays down rationality. It seems to me that the big errors in policy come from underestimating rationality (e.g. people will fly-tip if you charge by weight for rubbish collection) not overestimating it.
Pound falling like a stone. Under $1.92 now….
44- Now, now… those poor Belgians. Oh well, apparently there soon won’t be any more Belgians, but rather just Flemings and Walloons, ahem, citizens of northern France, rather.
67. Windy - how many famous Belgians can you name? Hercule Poirot does not count!
72 - I don’t think even 300-1 is good value. Remember also that Powell didn’t run for the White House himself for family reasons. That presumably either means there is a skeleton (so he won’t pass vetting) or he genuinely doesn’t want the job (in which case why should he put himself a heartbeat away?)
77, Jean Claude van Dam!
While the vasr majority of pundits and pollster’s are backing Obama to win the presidential election, I think we should all beware the nuances of state by state polls. SEE:
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/articles/2008/08/08/a_tough_call_for_presidential_pollsters/?rss_id=Boston.com+–+Top+ political+ stories
74 - More accurately, the US Dollar is rising like a hot air balloon. I distinguish because Sterling is up against the Euro today.
78. And er……
29 I wonder if this will be a reason for GB to return to Downing Street.
83, I’d say Russia invading Georgia is a damn good reason for him to do so.
Again, what the hell is the Foreign office doing?
76 — Georges ‘Herge’ Remi, creator/writer/artist of Tintin (character’s 80th anniversary next year).
77 or he genuinely doesn’t want the job - Or it could be he doesn’t want the nastiness of a campaign to get it but would contemplate it, if it fell into his hands. They are two different things.
15- I haven’t read every post this morning, but it doesn’t seem that anyone has mentioned Reagan’s 1984 candidacy. At the time, Reagan was 73 (one year older than McCain). Those of you who were observing that election will know that the Democrats tried to make an issue of Reagan’s advanced age and highlight some stumbles he had been making. In a debate with Mondale, Reagan swept aside the issue with both a good overall debate performance and his famous line that he wouldn’t make an issue of his opponent’s youth and inexperience. By making such an issue of Reagan’s age, the Democrats had given him an opportunity to score big merely by showing he wasn’t so decrepit after all. And, of course, people are living to ever older ages these days and age 72 today isn’t as seemingly ancient as it was 24 years ago.
Moral of the story: the Democrats should be very careful about attempting to attack McCain over his age. They’d be better served to avoid the issue entirely and let the public come to it’s own conclusions about the matter.
51. Do you honestly think Gord set up the YouTube channel himself?
83 Indeed never understood why the PM was supposed to go to China anyway. He’s not head of state. Rather have him in no10.
If the royal family are for anything it is for stuff like this.
81 - Plastic Bertrand?
83 - What do you want them to do? It is not the time to make a public statement beyond “noting with concern”. Let’s not come over all Palmerstonian about it - our leverage is not great here.
@88:
Prince Philip won’t let Her Maj go — doesn’t want her getting all slitty-eyed.
86 Moral of the story: the Democrats should be very careful about attempting to attack McCain over his age. They’d be better served to avoid the issue entirely and let the public come to it’s own conclusions about the matter. - They won’t. They’ll let surrogates do it, just McCain will wash his hands but allow others to do his work for him as well.
88 - He isn’t in China. He is in Suffolk (or was this morning). He is attending the closing ceeremony only.
76. Charles Martel, who saved us all by turning back the Muslims at the Battle of Tours in 732.
81. Marc Dutroux, serial paedo
91- You’re not seeing my point, Punter. The more the Democrats OR their surrogates make an issue of McCain’s age, the greater opportunity he has to score points through, say, a great debate performance. Any attack over McCain’s age through surrogates will still be associated in the public perception with the Democrats and Obama, which is all McCain needs in order to potentially turn it into an issue in his favor.
84 - Cesar Franck was Belgian. Also the Gaulish chief Ambiorix. I also seem to remember that Bradley Wiggins British medal hope was born in Ghent.
73. If you haven’t seen the second part of Adam Curtis’ “The Trap: Whatever Happened to our Dreams of Freedom” it’s a very good exploration of rationality.
92. Are they closing Suffolk?
76- Aren’t you all Belgians in a sense, as fellow citizens of the Euro super state having its capital at Brussels?
70
Odds on the last post on PB.com in the event we get the six minute warning:
Jack W posting the latest ARSE(BUTT) poll: Evens
A SeanT Euro-rant: 3/1
Martin Day comparing somebody to Neil Kinnock: 4/1
Gabble noting that a nuclear holocaust vindicates Gordon’s strategy: 14/1
David Herdson being philisophical and measured about his impending demise: 25/1
Nick Palmer MP turning the screen blue with naughty words: 500/1
Shadsy, make it happen.
Man, if this fighting gets any worse China is going to be seriously annoyed.
94 — not to mention his various known and unknown accomplices, quite possibly in positions of power, who aided his atrocious crimes.
and Enzo Scifo, Kim Clijsters, 2 Many DJ’s and Jacques Brel for the famous Belgians.
96. Wiggins is not Belgian, although of course there are loads of famous cyclists who were, Eddy Merckx, Tom Boonen, Sven Nys being obvious examples.
i spoke to a couple of Belgians about this very question not long ago, jokingly. Of course they had never heard of Poirot, or many of the “famous” Belgians listed above, but reeled off a long list of cycling and a few football stars, with real pride.
100 - Problem is how could you tell who won as we would all be vapourised and the server would probably be fused into silica.
101, hmm. Timing is very convenient, and the Russkis are chummy with the Chinese, aren’t they?
It’s kept from being the top story on the People’s Broadcasting Corporation by the Olympics. Clever timing by Putin/Medvedev.
77. I think when something is such a long shot. e.g. less than 1%, arguing whether 300/1 is not value is a moot point. My tiny punt (which is all PP let me have these days) is based solely on the very unlikely occurence that one of the candidates, most likely McCain is able to talk him round to standing, probably for reasons of “national interest”.
The reason either would try so hard to prersuade him is that his favourability ratings with independents and even democrats are in a different league to any other potential veep choice.
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1530
70: Are you sure about that Wes Clarke suggestion? For most international / military crises I could sort-of see the appeal, but for one involving Russia and a former-Soviet state, picking the person who nearly started World War III the last time it happened may not be the Change You Can Believe In that Obama’s campaign is looking for.
76. Stella Artois
100. Nevermind the glory - how could I collect from betfair ?
“Obama’s overseas trip, particularly the mass rally in Berlin, has not gone down well ”
what are you basing this on?
95 - But they may well realise that it’s true.
And, hey, Obama’s an elitist (snark) so what does it matter if people believe lies when the truth is that he’s from a broken home and fought his way up unlike the social climbing McCain?
McCain started it….
102 - Also Adolphe Sax, creator of the favoured instrument of Lisa Simpson the Saxophone or as Homer would have Saxomophone!
Any attack over McCain’s age through surrogates will still be associated in the public perception with the Democrats and Obama, which is all McCain needs in order to potentially turn it into an issue in his favor. - No more than Bush’s surrogate attacks on McCain in 2000 were tied to him. He beat up on McCain pretty good to his benefit.
110 - On the GOP echo chamber of course……
105 OTOH it could suit Georgia as well. Less pressure on them to stay their hand initially. THey want it back.
112. Two very good female tennis players - Henin and Clijsters.
116, not sure I’d back Georgia in a fight with Russia. I know they’ve had some training from the US but it seems unlikely they could see of the Reds on their own.
111, 113- Why does any statement that might suggest a problem for Obama raise the hackles of the Obama supporters here? OK, you guys win, everything will go great for Obama until the end of the universe.
116 - The Wars of the Roses arguably were started by a Belgian, John of Gaunt, Gaunt being the old English name for Ghent.
117. Yes - they could maybe get to half time only a goal down. 2nd half would be all Russia though - even if an away tie.
98 - Very good. Made I larf.
This news about Georgia is most disturbing for the McCain camp. He looked nailed on for the 15 electoral votes and if the Red Army tanks do indeed roll into Atlanta, that’s a bit of a bummer. Or have I got that wrong?
slightly off topic, a good ice breaking drinking game for use with foreigners: the name game (drink while you think) with the twist that they must restrict themselves to brits and you can only use their nationality.
particularly difficult against Germans, many of their forenames start with the same letters (A,H,J,K,W) and there is simply too much temptation to name unsavoury characters.
76. Who could forget Django Reinhardt?
118 - Because the McCain camp has been getting too much of an easy ride.
You expect to have an opponent lie down like a good, weak liberal as Kerry and others did?
Tough.
This time it has to be a fight.
107 - I don’t think he’ll go for Clarke for other reasons. But he certainly won’t be picking a VP candidate to please Moscow. He just MIGHT be tempted by a bit of military experience if the world climate worsens and Clarke is associated with that in the US public mind. And he won’t pick Powell.
@116:
“I’ve got Henin and Clijsters.”
“You can get a cream for that.”
124- Whether the McCain camp has been getting an easy ride has nothing to do with whether there is peril for the Democrats in attacking McCain over his age. Nice try, though.
I know the EU is a boring topic for many (it’s just not important enough) but regarding our earlier discussion about the institution, Bruno Waterfield has an interesting story on developments in Denmark. It seems the Danes, having been denied a referendum on the constitution for the same reasons we were, now won’t be offered a referendum on whether to keep their opt-outs negotiated at the time of Maastricht. Why? The government would lose. It contains this gem of a quote from the ‘British’ representative to the EU:
“Machiavelli advises the Prince to be feared, not loved. The EU’s resolution for the new half century should be to give up trying to be loved.”
It really is all over for the EU.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/bruno_waterfield/blog/2008/08/08/a_cowardly_and_unpopular_eu
Rene Magritte
Problem is, ukpaul, the Democrats’ idea of a fight is to ask their opponent if they’d possibly be interested in a slice of vegetarian quiche…
René Magritte
It must be cheating to claim Charles Martel or John of Gaunt. Belgium didn’t exist until 1830.
This is a contest not a referendum.
As far as the wish for the GOP to make this a referendum on Obama the press have done their bidding all the way.
You really think that the US will be well served by that? Waking up and thinking ‘okay, we were persuaded not to vote for the other guy, now what the hell does the other guuy that was elected stand for?’
Frightening.
Van Eyck, Van Dyck and Rubens..
Audrey Hepburn..
118 - As an Obama supporter, albeit not an Obamaniac, I tend to agree with you. Obama will steer into danger if he is seen as attacking McCain on the age issue.
But on the plus side for him: (i) the age difference is painfully obvious without drawing attention to it; and (ii) the internet is more important now - McCain stumbles are the stuff viral e-mails are made of and it never has to come near the desk of the candidate.
98 “Are they closing Suffolk?”
How would we ever be able to tell?
130 - So surrogates have to take the battle on. The primaries showed how a mass of people could make a difference. On their own, weak, as a group they can wield great power.
135- Finally a voice of reason! That is exactly perspective and attitude the Obama camp should be taking, and they should be passing that message on to their supporters. That’s the best way they could handle the issue and use it to their advantage.
131 - Ceci n’est pas un Belge.
130 - Yes, I think we all recall how the Obama v Clinton primary contest showed how terribly, painfully genteel Democrats are. It was all, “Senator Obama is a splendid fellow” this and “Hillary is welcome to tea in Illinois whenever” that. I am sure people said at the time that they should stop the love-in and take the gloves off. Or maybe my memory is failing me there.
140 Kerry? Dukakis? Gore? All weak and didn’t fight back hard enough.
140- One of the most enduring chestnuts in the annals of Democratic mythology is that they only lose elections because they’re such nice people.
Famous Belgians - unfortunately for Belgium, the outside world tends to assume that anyone with a French name is French and anyone with a Flemish name is Dutch. Plus Belgium is only a country of 10 million people with a history going back barely 200 years. Think of other similarly-proportioned countries and you probably can’t name that many people from there either.
Anyway:
Plastic Bertrand
Georges Simenon (sp?)
138 - So why do you appear happy for McCain to do it to Obama?
Are you actually disowning negative campaigning now?
140 It’s possibly selective. The SC GOP primary in 2000 was absolutely as brutal.
OT — The Morning Star napped Muffett’s Dream today, 50/1 winner of the first at leafy Lingfield. Doubtless seanT lumped on with the eurosceptic comrades.
143 re 10 million Belgians.
How many famous Scots from the last 200 years? Or Londoners, come to that?
144- I’m not campaigning for anybody or anything. I’m merely commenting on what is happening.
144 - I have no problem with negative campaigning. McCain is a bad tempered man who isn’t a quarter as clever as he thinks he is. Point it out - go after him.
But be careful on age. You do not want to give the message that if you are over 60, you are a bumbling fool who struggles to do up his shoelaces.
Jacky Ickx
Of course Democrats fight *amongst themselves* — the left always fights amongst itself while the factions of the right swallow their mutual dislike enough to put up a united front.
147 - Londoners comprise two groups, those who live in London and those who were born there. If we’re allowed to include the first, then the list will be long indeed. If we’re not, there’s a lot of hard work to be done looking at places of birth.
Scots are perhaps easier. I would suggest the following for starters: Sir Walter Scott, John Boyd Dunlop, Charles Rennie Mackintosh, John Macadam, Annie Lennox and Irvine Welsh.
Herge - inventor of Tintin
148 - Well I cam spot double standards when I see them.
149 - In fact it is those of McCain’s age who realise the problem, it ois those twenty/thirty years away who need to look to their parents and imagine someone of the same age being the leader of their country.
Reagan struggled in his second term and so (according to biographies) did Churchill.
Cognitive ability fades, do you want someone with that happening in charge? Would you accept that they become a puppet of those in their shadows? It’s a much more important issue than ones which do not affect health such as ‘elitism’ (chortle).
Andrew Sullivan has a disgruntled conservative take on it -
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/08/the-age-issue.html
“Few studies examine the frequency and course of mild cognitive impairment in older adults.But couuld it affect decison-making in highly complex areas where answers require strong mental skillls and swift assimilation of new facts. Under the pressure of a campaign or public office, this is not easy. Running a war with potential terror strikes imminent may be not a time when you hope your president isn’t having an off-day and a litte confused - Shiites? Sunni? Which are the bad guys?.”
re 44 Jack W you no doubt remember your call up papers arriving as if it were yesterday
Yes, in the Internet age, it is so much more easier to go negative and appear distant from it.
Obama says: “I can’t control what one guy posts on youtube!”
Obaba thinks: “Bwaaaaa hahaha hahahaha my plan is working!”
while the factions of the right swallow their mutual dislike enough to put up a united front. - Not always viz GB in 1992 the tories 1995-2005.
re 74 and no doubt gold and oil heading upwards?
http://money.cnn.com/2008/08/08/markets/oil/index.htm
158- Looks like they are going down, Oil at $116.
152. Not to mention six Scottish-born PMs, and another 4 with Scottish heritage.
160 - And Jimmy Krankie.
Wasnt it a Belgian mathematician who invented the BMI body index?
162 Candidate for the most boring pb.com comment ever!
163- OK, so who’s the most boring Belgian in history?
164. It’s a toss-up between Ann Twerp and Bruce Els.
164- Jean-Claude Van Damme! He has made numerous shit films that will bore you to death.
V-P Market
Dick Morris about Evan Bayh:
“I think Obama will choose Evan Bayh, former Indiana governor and now, succeeding his father Birch Bayh, the Senator from the Hoosier state. He seems like a safe choice, but he is a cream puff. I worked hard to get him the keynote speech at the 1996 Democratic Convention but he wouldn’t use the occasion, as every other keynote speaker has, to attack the Republicans in general or Dole in particular. Instead he gave a forgettable and self-serving series of bromides that did him and Clinton very little good.
He can’t be counted on to bring the fight to the other side. He dislikes “getting down in the gutter” and that’s a phobia a vice presidential candidate can’t afford to nurture.”
164. Any of the politicians
167 - I think that’s an interesting comment from Dick Morris. There is a lot of sense in having a VP choice who is willing to get nasty so you don’t have to. People like Dick Cheney, Spiro Agnew, Lyndon Johnson and George Bush Snr all had that quality for their respective bosses. Bayh doesn’t really bring that.
167- Dick Morris is always entertaining, but is wrong as often as he is right. Through 1999 and into 2000, he never stopped telling everyone who would listen that Hillary, first, would not run for the Senate seat in New York and then, once she decided to run, that she wouldn’t win.
Obama calls for Russia to respect Georgian territorial integrity! I bet they are really worried by that, what next; is Prescott going to make an announcement?
171 - Bush is sat a few feet away from Putin at this present time, maybe he should start a fight.
172 - if he does, my money’s on the Russian sociopath with the black belt. Odds, anyone?
171 - Well what do you want him to do? Parachute into Tbilisi and take out the whole Red Army with nothing put a pocket knife and a ball of string?
173 - Princess Anne would take them both down. She’s really a shape shifting lizard you know.
173 - My money’s on the Texan with the Smith and Wesson.
173..George kicks ass well!
176 - don’t get me wrong, I like the guy (unpopular position, I know), but I don’t think the Secret Service would trust him with a loaded firearm.
176 - My money is on the oddly acrobatic Chinese with ancient martial arts techniques.
177 Ex KGB agent vs Dubya… Now Cheney would be a different matter.
171. I have bad vibes about this Georgia thing you know! Very worrying as newly resurgent Russia may not take to kindly to Nato Interference.
159 The falling oil price should have given Labour some cheer - except the falling value of the pound is going to reduce some of the benefits to dollar-priced oil. If the price of oil had stayed static, it would have been 5% more expensive on a fall from £ = $2 to £ = $1.90. So the effect on falls at the pumps (and the fall in inflation) are going to be more muted.
178 - Your average voter wouldn’t trust him with a loaded fire extinguisher.
180 Cheney would have no qualms about shooting Putin in the face. If he can do it to his hunting buddies….
182. GBP vs. USD has not changed radically in 2008, whereas oil has spiked and is now pulling back (poss. just a correction)
181- Russia will be left to its own devices. There will be much complaining and tut-tutting, but Russia will do whatever it wants to do in Georgia and nobody will do anything of substance.
170 Like his Condi v Hillary prediction. He’s possibly the only thing that unites Focus on the Family and Move On crowds they all really hate him.
174 whats it got to do with obama? maybe prescott with some string and a swiss army knife might achieve something……..
181.”171. I have bad vibes about this Georgia thing you know!”
I agree. The timing of this stinks as well.
186 If they touch that pipeline though.
170- I like the guys just because he’s entertaining in the often dry world of political punditry. But he is also a Machiavellian, Rasputinesque slickster and would be the last guy I’d buy a used car from.
191- guy, not guys