This must be the political interview of the year?
December 22nd, 2009
Listen to the John Hutton interview
Is this a foretaste of what’s to come?
If you have not caught up yet with the John Hutton interview on this evening’s PM programme then listen to to it now.
The headline story of Hutton’s admission to being the cabinet members expressing serious doubts about Gordon Brown in September 2006 is only part of it - although the way that comes out in the discourse is of itself quite dramatic. Eddie Mair’s quiet persistence is brilliant.
There’s so much to be told of what was going on inside the government and Labour during the critical period that led effectively to Tony Blair being forced out of office nine months later and it’ll be the subject of books and TV programmes galore.
The Hutton comments are only a taster, surely, of what is to come as we find out what was really going on.
Mike Smithson
MessageSpace Advertising
I’m away for days and then a new thread pops up just as I post…
tim = herd of one!
It’s a fantastic interview. Eddie Mair deserves an award for his technique. However, isn’t the normal rule that former Cabinet ministers wait until after the election before rocking the boat?
It was a terribly dull and uninteresting interview.
Who really cares what John Hutton thinks now or what he thought in the past? I’d be surprised if 1% of the country even knew of him.
Right at the start, right, cool.
here we go.
Hat say you all to the idea that these televised debates will either:
a) be cancelled because of Alex Salmond’s whingeing, and thus giving Gordon Brown et al the chance to say ‘it wasn’t me guv’.
or b)
that they will go ahead, become unavoidable, and then Gordo dashing off to pastures new and allowing a new Labour leader, to slot in and take his place.
I’m on B)
because as i have said before, i think i now Gordon Brown’s personality and he is both;
1) unwilling or incapable of doing the battle bus thingy (that would be highly degrading for him)
2) he is phenomenally ambitious, and has crafted his way to this job since 1983, and in actual fact classes the post of PM as merely a stepping stone on the way to yet greater heights.
What say you all?
even toe nails is having his fun
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/nickrobinson/2009/12/hutton_brown_disaster.html#comments
5 i dont think they will happen - gordon doesnt want them to happen
SNP have no place in the debate (I think this might have been said on the previous thread!
)
They don’t have to know him. Most people know that someone described as a cabinet minister is pretty senior in Government. And that’s the story.
4 - The Daily Telegraph readers may think otherwise.
“John Hutton, the former Cabinet minister, has admitted predicting that Gordon Brown would be “a disaster” as Prime Minister.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/6867663/John-Hutton-admits-I-said-Gordon-Brown-would-be-a-disaster.html
re 4. That comment says a lot about you and your interest in politics Richie.
Who cares what Hutton thought or said, Richie? As you so rightly imply, nobody does. After all, he was just a Labour minister. Nobody ever cared in the least what they thought or said.
Ditto in the present tense too. Labour are increasingly irrelevant.
3 antifrank
“However, isn’t the normal rule that former Cabinet ministers wait until after the election before rocking the boat?”
I suspect that this is the Blairites getting the boot in because Brown has clearly given permission for all sorts of officials to dish the dirt on Blair to the Chilcot enquiry.
8 David
Indeed and most notably they will recognise he was right!
3. I was lucky enough to catch it live - a delicious moment which Eddie Mair handled with a great mix of persistence and delicacy (tho’ he was knocking at an open door). Don’t think it will rock Gordon’s boat too much. It’s already being edited down to a nonentity.
Does he go on to say he stands by what he said? If not, it shouldn’t have much impact.
I’d love it to… but it probably won’t.
In other news. Steve Beaton wins to bring a darts Patent home
It is brilliant piece of interview skills by Eddie Mair, manoeuvring John Hutton between a rock and a hard place.
In fact, it is worthy of theatre, there is real and tangible tension in some of the pauses.
And not an interruption, nor a raised voice. Worth the license fee on its own.
As I said on the prev thread, I think its the hand of No 10 in this.. get it out into the open now.. its will lose some of its power by the GE. Its very Max Cliffordesque, rather like Mrs Bercow who wants to become a Labour MP….
6. It was Toenails’ story back in 2007 - so he’s entitled. It does show he did’t make it up, as I’m sure some thought was the case.
Looks like Michael Gove is to pretend to be Gordo.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/dec/22/shadow-schools-secretary-gordon-brown
I wonder who will play Dave for Labour? Sion Simon perhaps (he’s had practice of playing Dave before)?
Off topic: I just completed a Springboard survey for Angus Reid and the voting intention question had changed. Rather than asking who I would ’support’ it actually said ‘vote for’. A welcome change. I’d be interested to see if it changes the results drastically, but doubt it will.
But do any of you think as i do that Gordo will resign before the general election.
I mean you must admit the signs that he will contest the election don’t look good do they?
I mean imagine someone bottling a general election that they were nailed on to win. You just can’t can you.
Oh yeah. he did didn’t he.
Nah, sorry guys and gals, he’s be shooting off in about 6 weeks time.
Just trying to work out which bet to take on.
I don’t think there is anything in the theory that Mair cunningly wormed a confession out of Hutton. Hutton sounds in control throughout. I think he always intends to make the admission and Mair knows that and the two of them are spinning out the fun.
16 Gwynfa I am increasing reinforced in the view that it could well be still Ceredigion still LD after the election but a surprise brewing next door on the scale politically of an asteroid impact. What is your view at present?
It was a superb piece of interviewing. In fact I hope that Paxman et al. are sent a copy to learn that sometimes a pause can really force your interviewee to fill the space. It normally doesn’t end well.
As to the substance it may well not move anything. It is Christmas Eve-Eve-Eve and it seems that most people are intent on sliding home in one piece. Secondly, the British public already appear to hold this point of view if you believe the polls.
Of course with the end of this government will come the final denouement of New Labour and the final fight between Brownites & Blairites… I really do think we expect more of this post election.
20. Galvatron
Did it still use the words ‘your constituency’?
Behold the wonder of the first White House Christmas tree to bear Obama’s imprint (literally and figuratively), proudly displaying images of the Messiah (Obama, not Jesus), Chairman Mao, and transvestites:
http://biggovernment.com/2009/12/22/transvestites-mao-and-obama-decorate-white-house-christmas-tree/
4. Richie Rich: I’d be surprised if 1% of the country even knew of him.
Yeah, he’s not that famous in Argentina.
Damn, all the the leader exit exit bets have gone.
Damn damn damn
18,yes,back in 2007 mr robinson was a independent free thinking political reporter,today we have toe nails
25. Yes, it did. I’m glad they kept that part of the question as I think it’s more relevant than asking about the national picture.
22. Agree they were playing footsie with each other. Still it took considerable skill to get it right. Eddie could easily have blown it.
The funniest thing about the interview is Hutton now claiming that he no longer holds the opinion he previously expressed when events have clearly vindicated his foresight.
I suspect that the vast majority of Labour MPs and ministers believe that Gordon Brown has been a “f*cking disaster” but dare not say so.
re 21. Angus Reid is currently testing the two approaches to see if it makes any difference.
Strikes me that a debate with Salmond in would be much more interesting than a debate without him!
How long before one of the papers runs a phone in poll with the question
1) Do you think Gordon Brown has been an effing disaster as PM?
2) Do you think Gordon Brown has been an effing great as PM?
24 ceredigion con gain?
35. ex-pat.
Only an extra year to wait for the Goldie, Gray, Salmond & Scott show!
45. So would a debate with Hugo Chavez and Silvio Berlusconi in. But they aren’t going to get a podium each either.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/nilegardiner/100020597/us-voters-give-barack-obama-an-f/
I originally thought the story wouldn’t rock Gordon’s boat too much, but am changing my mind after reading the ‘nothing to see here - move along’ comments. Sounding rather panicked boys.
31. Galvatron
I agree about ‘constituency’ because it has more chance of picking up any tactical voting.
I hope the change to ‘vote’ rather than ’support’ is permanent.
No. They´d spend all their time talking about Scotland. We´ve had quite enough of that on here…..
38 LondonStatto
Given the Lab/LD leadership turnover, it’s a brave prognosis that either Scott or Gray will still be around in 2011.
ID cards
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/22/id_card_ferry_cock_up/
LOL
33: Hutton was just saying what they were all thinking (cept Balls of course), but didn’t have the backbone to do anything about. As a result, they get Mr Disaster as a leader to lead them into oblivion.
23 Punter,
Lembit Opik is the MP in Wales I would most like to see lose. My grandfather was active in the Liberal Party in Montgomeryshire and he would have been aghast at Lembit and his antics.
I think the Tory candidate in Montgomeryshire is impressive and if I lived in Montgomeryshire I would vote for him to rid Wales of a national embarrassment.
I fear you may be right about Ceredigion.
“Eddie Mair’s quiet persistence is brilliant.”
As it/he very often is.
They’ve just covered the Hutton story (including a good clip from the interview) on the News at Ten. Scottish Ian Watson is trying to do damage limitation, but the clip itself is so rivetting it completely upstages the spin.
They’ve just covered the Hutton story (including a good clip from the interview) on the News at Ten. Scottish Ian Watson is trying to do damage limitation, but the clip itself is so rivetting it completely upstages the spin.
As a long time fan of Eddie Mair, from Radio 5 days and Broadcasting House before Fi Glover took over, I think he would be a brilliant choice for the BBC leaders debate. He’s a very difficult person to deal with in an interview as he manages to be charming, but not smarmy, whilst asking the most awkward questions. Much better than a Humphrys, Paxman or Dimbleby (either), and a match for Neil.
Surely the story is that so few of his colleagues spotted the obvious at the time.
Eddie Mair is a top bloke, Any Questions is so much better when he’s on it.
36. The Screaming Eagles December 22nd, 2009 at 10:16 pm
I think the Brown-detractors (may their tribe increase) need to be a bit careful not to trigger any more ****ing sympathy for him. I hope the Sun don’t overegg it again.
40,barack obama fast becoming bollocks obama
51/53. Bi-partisan agreement on this one.
55 we have known this for some time in watford!!!!
54. Don’t think there’s much danger of that. It’s festive fun at the moment. There was a distinct twinkle in Fiona Bruce’s eye as she reported it on the 10.
4. It’s important because what he thought then is what 68% or so of the voters think, now.
40. What’s ridiculous is the notion that Obama is some extreme left-wing nut trying to change America forever. The guy is anything but a liberal.
Here’s an excellent article if you have 30 minutes to read:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/31234647/obamas_big_sellout
It’s no wonder his approval ratings are plummeting. Republicans are never going to approve of him, and now he has grass root Democrats losing faith as pre-election promise after promise is shamefully broken.
I find John Hutton’s motivation for predicting the effing disaster comments very illuminating.
Mark my words, Gordon Brown’s political career coffin will be buried in the worlds largest man made lake.
Well it will be once all the Blairites have finished p1ssing on it.
58 - Festive fun is more dangerous to Gordon Brown than hatred. “Let them hate me, so long as they fear me”, as Caligula so wisely said.
57,talking about watford,hows things at your club.
what is now happening at watford,reminds me what happened at my club,see you down here in the deep depths of the football league mate
33. Yes, that is funny.
Could any Labour MP really put his hand on his heart and say “I would still have chosen this man to be PM”, if they had their time all over again?
47 Why do you feel that way about Ceredigion?
Good to see Eddie Mair getting the kind of attention he deserves, at last. Paxman and Humpries, listen and learn.
“Tory leader David Cameron talks of March 25 as polling day, which would save Labour having an austerity Budget. Others suggest May 6 to coincide with the local elections. Labour, they say, cannot afford to fund two elections and its core vote will only turn out once.
I hear the shrewd money is on April 8. Figures likely to show a return to growth are due next month. More good news on the economy is expected on April 23 – perfectly timed for Labour to talk up victory over recession. It is also clever voter psychology. Faced with two sets of ballot papers on the same day, many will vote Labour out on both. Yet the reality of a Tory resurgence in April could persuade Labour supporters to back their party on May 6.”
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4afe99e0-ef44-11de-86c4-00144feab49a.html
From the same link(66)
“Mandy and Gordon – the unravelling
Messrs. Brown and Denham want to make various databases freely available including what are known as postcode datasets. Mr Brown announced the scheme two weeks ago without consulting either Lord Mandelson or the Royal Mail, whose intellectual property the postcode datasets are. “
63 are you a Man Utd fan
60 I think that it must be difficult to be a Democrat President. A large chunk of one’s supporters are just desperate to be betrayed, as they discover that their man is not going to turn the US into Sweden (which they certainly ought to have realised from the outset).
Oak Harbor Police: Loud parties, loose dogs and naked women
By WHIDBEY NEWS TIMES
Oak Harbor Police Department
The following items were selected from reports made to the Oak Harbor Police Department.
Monday, Dec. 21
At 2:58 a.m., an Appian Way resident reported a man and woman arguing. The man was yelling at the woman not to hit him and to get off him.
Sunday, Dec. 20
At 8:56 p.m., a caller reported two large dogs running loose near the intersection of SE Sixth Avenue and SE Neil Street.
At 8:52 p.m., a caller reported a car struck a pedestrian at a NE Seventh Avenue location.
At 6:08 p.m., a caller reported a woman admitted to shoplifting from Highway 20 business.
At 5:05 p.m., a NE Second Avenue resident reported a burglary.
At 3:58 p.m., a NE Taftson resident was concerned that two men walking through the neighborhood were casing houses.
At 3:15 p.m., a SW Harrier Circle resident reported a woman assaulted someone.
At 2:33 p.m., a NW Illahee Drive resident reported juveniles took some of his lawn ornaments and placed them on a neighbor’s lawn.
At 1:18 a.m., a SE Fourth Avenue resident reported receiving threats.
At 12:25 a.m., a caller reported a car accident at the intersection of Western and Hemlock drives.
Saturday, Dec. 19
At 10:06 p.m., a caller reported juveniles ringing doorbells in the area of SW Barrington Drive.
At 5:13 p.m., a caller reported an assault at a NE Ernst Street location.
At 1:44 p.m., a caller reported a red van and a white van collided near the intersection of SW Fort Nugent and SW Swantown avenues.
At 10:26 a.m., a caller reported someone dumped a couch at a N. Oak Harbor Street location.
At 9:27 a.m., a caller reported a car hit the guard rail near the intersection of SE Fourth Avenue and SE Ely Street.
At 3:58 a.m., a caller reported several drunk, naked women in a silver Chevy truck on Highway 20. They were jumping in and out of the truck.
At 2:39 a.m., an E. Whidbey Avenue resident reported his neighbor was pounding on the wall outside his apartment. He was taunting the respondent and telling him to come out and fight.
At 2:29 a.m., a caller reported a loud party taking place at a NE Kettle Street apartment.
At 12:20 a.m., an Oak Harbor Street reported an assault had taken place. The victim was bleeding from his face.
Friday, Dec. 18
At 11:54 p.m., a caller reported a loud party taking place on Barrington Drive.
At 11:54 p.m., an E. Whidbey Avenue resident reported his neighbor damaged his Christmas lights.
At 6:07 p.m., a caller reported a car collided with a deer near the intersection of SW 24th Avenue and Highway 20.
At 3:53 p.m., a SW Waterside Court resident reported receiving harassing emails.
At 1:11 p.m., a caller reported his 13-year-old son was assaulted near the intersection of SW Fairhaven Drive and SW Sixth Avenue.
At 12:22 p.m., a caller reported a blue crowbar lying on Whidbey Avenue near the intersection with Highway 20.
At 12:07 p.m., a SW Heller Street resident reported people in an apartment are running their dishwasher and washing machine. It’s disturbing the caller’s sleep.
Thursday, Dec. 17
At 8:54 p.m., a caller reported a theft at a Highway 20 business.
At 1:31 p.m., a caller reported a dog at a SE Eighth Avenue location has had a broken leg since June.
At 12:19 p.m., a SW Sixth Avenue resident reported a Jack Russell terrier was missing.
At 10:46 a.m., a caller reported someone was taking money from his personal checking account.
At 9 a.m., a SW London Terrace resident reported a raccoon under her deck. The caller had questions and concerns.
At 8:16 a.m., a caller reported a male juvenile was detained at the high school for possession of marijuana.
55. johnno,
I cannot believe the BBC still show that clip with Obama saying change has come to america whilst a bloke looks pleased.
Though i credit Obama with one good political decision, theying to keep away from Gordon Brown as much as possible! Surely no coincidence that Obama mentioned he would go to an internatioonal gathering on the day of the PBR!
Not sure whether Obama actually went on the 8th December in the end! But I dont recall seing Obama and Brown having any one to ones: Brown had to make do with having it with Al Gore in a Broom Cupboard! 
The woman telling the camara men that they could not film the session added to the ridiculousness of it as what office does Al Gore hold these days other than a self professed “peddler of climate change theory” whose information does not support what he advocates.
Given the record low temps on both side of the Atlantic recently one has to wonder about this climate change at all!
Washington DC sweltering under heaviest snow in history, ever. It seems to me that Obama has caught Brown’s disease: the more foreign jollies he goes on the sillier he looks. There is even a curious symmetry between the Brown Statesman of the Year award and the equally ridiculous Nobel Peace Prize. And both have now returned from Copenhagen looking a prize pair of tits to mini ice ages.
This really is going to be remembered as the year the great AGW hoax rolled over and died.
66 - Well it certainly didn’t work like that in 1992. Labour got hammered in the May 1992 local elections, which followed the April 1992 Conservative election victory.
66 If Labour lose the election in April, their supporters will stay away in droves from the locals - giving the Conservatives an entirely unexpected bonus.
63 ty johnno! yes if we dont pull our fingers out we’ll only be one division above you next season!
71. Martin Day
should say:
8th December 09 = 9th December 09
73 = 74 and both are correct…
Would a really late election, wiki reckons 3rd June is the latest, work for labour on the basis that they’ll get a kicking at local level in may and their supporters will realise that the only chance to cling on to some seats is to wheel granny to the polling centre whatever happens?
I can’t see them using the GE as a warm up to the locals but I can the other way around, although I still think 06may is a huge favourite.
66. Wouldn’t it be a bit odd to have the election the week after Easter?
Hutton was of course right on the disaster but bottled out on his second claim, that he would do effing everything to stop it. He didn’t even offer a scintilla of support to Purnell, resigning for personal reasons rather than sticking in the knife.
Miliband made a similar claim, by inference rather than using strong language, in saying that after 6 months of Gordon we would be begging for Tony Blair. Unfortunately most people want neither now.
37 Ave it. “ceredigion con gain?”
I fear for poor Ave it …. first Watford FC resemble a large pile of doings and now we have this totem of Conservative uber confidence appending ? to con gain !!
For shame Ave it …. for shame !!
66 - It’s a big gamble to go on the basis that the 1Qtr will show growth (one assumes he means March 23rd for an April 8th election). Though it is my birthday that month so kicking out this rotten stinking edifice that passes itself off as a government would be a lovely extra present.
78. Omnuim
They could change the date of the local to coincide with a june poll.
81 we’re nailed on in watford though!
83 - I think certain locals, such as London, have their date already set by law. I don’t think they can be moved.
62. This is true. And Hutton’s defence was almost worse than the attack - he’s put his heart and soul into the job makes Brown sound like the kid who tries hard but doesn’t make the grade.
72. Global warming has also hit Poland with temperatures 20 degrees below.
I hardly ever listen to the PM programme for more than 5 minutes but amazingly I just happened to be listening when this interview came on.
I thought John Hutton made a bit of a fool of himself by not immediately answering the simple question about whether he made the famous comment.
81 - You underestimate the power and the effect of Lord Ashcroft.
I’m going to put some money on the Tories winning watford now.
70, SSI - mea culpa, I hit wrong button at wrong time!
Here is what I wanted to post:
Pew Research Poll: How Religious is Your State?
http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=504
Note that Utah ranks 2nd in worship service attendance (just behind Mississippi) but only 10th in belief in God.
83 Ah that’s interesting. I guess June 3rd or 1 week before that just to show they weren’t hanging on to the death is my new favourite.
Papers:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/The-Papers—National-Newspaper-Front-Pages-On-Wednesday-December-23-2009/Media-Gallery/200912415506740?lpos=UK_News_Left_Promo_Region_0&lid=GALLERY_15506740_The_Papers_-_National_Newspaper_Front_Pages_On_Wednesday_December_23%2C_2009
“Marriage is becoming preserve of middle-classes, Tories claim
Party plans tax breaks and support for fathers to promote traditional family”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/dec/22/marriage-preserve-of-middle-classes-tories
71,martin nice to see you back,
just for you mr day,the broom cupboard,starring gordon brown and al gore
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDSnyz1Wytw
85 Ave it. My poor late lamented friend, you are as nailed on for Watford as you were for Mr McCain last year. Oh dear.
22- Tim has often claimed Gordon cuts and runs around January the first.
Not long now then.
87. Polly, if you think its been cold and snowy around here recently you ain’t seen nothing yet. Just wait for next week!
89 Scream. Christmas come a little early poor some lucky bookmaker !!
96 - He’s not going. All this election talk is now about tactics not whom. If there were serious rumblings to remove him, then this quiet period would be full of it.
However I’m beginning to think we should send out a search party for Mandy. He has gone awfully quiet these days…
95
its all good - you are normally right mr w but we know its con gain watford…
98 - Ladbrokes and Paddy Power have given me a special freephone numbers just for me to use, so i can put on my bets with no hassle.
[79] - they’ll get a kicking at local level in may and their supporters will realise that the only chance to cling on to some seats is to wheel granny to the polling centre whatever happens?
Didn’t Sean Fear say that he expected the Tories to lose seats at the next local elections (all other things remaining equal)? Perhaps they would act as a boost for Labour ahead of a June election?
95 Jack W Any list of suggestions as to where discerning Punters may find the MW of 2010?
99. Worth reading if you haven’t seen it before.
Revealed: How Brown and Mandelson are at war again
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/columnists/article-1235182/PETER-OBORNE-Revealed-How-Brown-Mandelson-war-again.html
99 I wonder what odds I might find on Mandy to switch to LDs!? If the balance of power was to be in LD hands then who better (Mandy thinks) to be the kingmaker than me!?
104 - That was a good piece by Oborne. I’m very curious as to what Mandy is up to. The Mayoral talk is coming from Ken as it allows him to become anti-establishment. The farmer stuff was just odd (and I suspect a good distraction). Has he just decided to go to ground or is he plotting? A silent Mandy is a worrying thing for the entire political class I would have thought.
front pages so far,
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-News/The-Papers—National-Newspaper-Front-Pages-On-Wednesday-December-23-2009/Media-Gallery/200912415506740?lpos=UK_News_Left_Promo_Region_0&lid=GALLERY_15506740_The_Papers_-_National_Newspaper_Front_Pages_On_Wednesday_December_23%2C_2009
69. There is an extreme element that would like that, yes, and will always be disappointed. But Obama is doing nothing to deliver on any of his fundamental commitments whatsoever. N-o-t-h-i-n-g. He’s hardly trying to even disguise that brutal fact.
So I’d say this presidency is already turning into a dream for the Republican party. The GOP looked to be in almost as bad shape as the Tories were after the 1997 UK election as Obama swept to power. Not any more. Their base is energised, they are already attracting grass roots support from swing voters, and I’d say the dems are in big trouble after less than a year.
Not that this will make any tangible difference to the lives of US citizens. It’s never been more obvious the US has a one party system.
Call yourself a PR man?
http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/5659286/call-yourself-a-pr-man.thtml
I’m beginning to wonder if Cameron has been doing something to the press in the background that has wound them up so much…
94. johnno December 22nd, 2009 at 10:48 pm
The clip marks the measure of Brown IMO - Brown was hoping for some Quodos over a bloke many might not have an opinion of one way or the other these days and Brown screws it up!
I still think Gore not just a poor loser from what he said about if he got more states but less votes in 2000 and then when the reverse happened he refused to concede. Gore = Pathetic.
I remember what Gore did in those presidential debates by going to stand next to Bush when it was Bushes turn to reply. If the debates here happen i would not be surprised if Brown tried that!
I dont think Clegg would try that and I know for sure Cameron would not. Brown just thinks he has a right to behave in a way that is not just unseemly but goes against the spirit of British fair play. Brown does it again and again since he was forced upon the UK.
106. It certainly is odd that Mandelson has gone from being the public face of the government to almost invisible in such a short space of time.
100 Ave it. Now lets’ get this correct. In Watford the Lib Dems have twice won the Mayoralty, latterly with an vastly increased majority. They run the local council and have neutered the local Conservative council base to that of a poor rudderless rump.
For goodness sake the yellow peril also won the Euro Election in the seat !!
In contrast the recent Tory record in the seat is a akin to coming near last in an arse kicking contest with a one legged candidate.
We’ll not mention the last Tory PPC or the fact that the present one isn’t even well known in his own household !!
101 Scream. I’m sure the bookies have given you a dedicated service.
109
We have been here before.. Comres subsidiary questions..I take no note of them whatsoever.
For all Nick Palmer’s sniping at the Mail in the previous thread, they are obviously and without question the very finest newspaper in the country. The reason? They have more stories like this than any other:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1237838/Head-heels-The-Giant-Panda-did-roly-poly-sleep.html
“But could he, at this point of relief, suddenly be forced to face one more challenge to his leadership? Could a combination of Lord Mandelson’s growing disenchantment and David Miliband’s renewed ambition present a previously unforseen threat?
Despite the renewed optimism in Number 10 some Labour MPs believe it is Mr Brown who may still yet “wobble” over the festive period when he analyses where he is exactly.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/6866362/Gordon-Brown-Mandelson-and-Cameron.html
“tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/6867115/Anti-social-incident-every-second.html
The true scale of anti-social behaviour in Britain is exposed today as figures show there is now a victim every second.
112 ‘We’ll not mention the last Tory PPC’
He did represent a very good area in a london borough for a while!
103 Punter. Yes …. but they will have to discern alone for a little while longer !!
117 Ave it. Was that part of the mitigation ??
110,watch it martin,you will have the tim’s of this world on saying gore did win in 2000.
brown,clegg and gore = the three stooges
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3s8sEYzHWQ
Hutton: just demob-happy, I think. Deserves a bit of credit for not lying, anyway.
67: I don’t want to annoy councillor friends, but IMO Sue Cameron vastly overestimates the interest of the national party in the council elections compared with the GE. The idea that we’ll have the GE first in the belief as a sort of loss-leader, in the hope that maybe it will somehow win or save a few council seats, is risible. If you think people vote like that (make a protest first time and then return to the fold) one can make a stronger case the other way round - have the election in June, so people can have one final anti-Labour protest in May. I’m a bit sceptical, though.
115. Thats a nice piece of Mandy Mischief Making right there, IMO! The darl lords still around and smarting over his European humiliation.
83. There are several potential economic disasters waiting to trap Labour if they hang on too long. These include further large bankruptcies, loss of AAA rating, a sharp drop in the £, strikes and continued rise in unemployment. As an article in the Times today commented it was 1 year after the recession ended that Labour had to go to the IMF for a bail out.
The trouble with the Labour story is that there will be bad economic news and they have not prepared the public for it. All this suggests they should go early.
119
i met him outside my local waitrose once!
124 Ave it. Did he give you any spare change ??
Christmas presents stuck in the snow: After blizzards cause chaos on roads and rail, now another headache…
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1237872/Christmas-presents-stuck-snow-After-blizzards-cause-chaos-roads-rail-headache-.html
for any kids out there,this means santa is going to be abit late this year
125
oddly enough there is a big issue seller there regularly…
He is not either of us!
121 Nick Palmer MP
I’d be interested in your views on the obsession with party leaders (as in the debate thingy) as opposed to voting for political parties standing on a unique platform of policies.
Whatever the theoretical basis of the UK constitution, it seems that it has now degenerated into electing a temporary constitutional monarch (since the PM exercises the monarch’s prerogative) and the role of MPs is just to act as members of the Electoral College which finally elects that monarch, and then to be Local Ombudsmen for your constituency until the next monarch is chosen.
Should be, Ave. Not you by the way…
Tory PPC in Watford = criminal. In Ave-speak,
127 Ave it. You’ve even conceded the Watford ‘Big Issue’ vote ??
Ave it - Best wishes to you and yours for Xmas.
Now, I’m off to jolly up the elves ….
Nite nite
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
131 and to you Jack W!!!
Likewise GN all…
F1 BREAKING NEWS:
Michael Schumacher signs one-year deal with Mercedes to return to Formula One
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/ferrari/6869054/Michael-Schumacher-signs-one-year-deal-with-Mercedes-to-return-to-Formula-One.html
Tory Bear reports that the lady who ramped the Ipsos-MORI 3 point story is being promoted by Labour in terms of their online campaigning…
http://www.torybear.com/2009/12/exclusive-labour-ppc-abandons-front-for.html
From previous thread… Does/did Rory Stewart have parents? The Wikipeida page just does not mention them at all.
If he did not have any parents worth mentioning, he did pretty well to get into the Dragon School, Oxford (the snobbiest prep school in the south of England) and from there to Eton and Baliol College, Oxford. From there personal tutor to the Royal children, officer in the armed forces, from there to the Diplomatic Corps and then Deputy Governor of a couple of provinces in Iraq.
Goodness only knows what he is planning to do with the second half of his life…
So if he managed all this without special influences and string pulling, well done to him.
On the other hand he does look rather as though he still has a silver spoon in his mouth. So not so impressive afer all. He just feeds into the Labour narrative of privilege for the few.
Wrote two nice, neat but pretty easy (and sorry not political or betting related) clues-
England and Switzerland had dictionary copied (6)
In place, and tied in place (7)
On topic (and hoping he doesn’t follow my idea), if I were GB I’d let it be known that I knew it was Hutton who said it before it was even reported in 2007.
sorry
In place, and ties in place (7)
oldnat at 128: yes, it’s part of the Americanisation of politics and in my view pretty unwelcome (I dislike direct mayoral elections for the same reason). My impression is that it’s been like that for a long time - Tony Blair rather gave the game away when he started talking about “doing what I think is right”, but memoirs going all the way back to Churchill suggest that the Cabinet tended to follow any strong lead that was going, and backbenchers would find out about policies when they were announced. An excception was the Bennite period of Labour, when the party asserted itself and policy was decided with strong grass-roots influences (reinforced by quite serious reselection issues for MPs who annoyed their CLPs), but the period isn’t generally regarded as one of Labour’s finest hours. Similarly, Major wasn’t really in control, but that isn’t seen as a great success either.
That said, the US has gone further than we have: we debate whether Brown, Cameron, etc. appear to have convincing policies. The Americans to an alarming degree just debate whether the candidates are nice guys.
Is Mandelson still alive?
Why was Hutton on PM by the way…. Porter’s post as well…
Is a new game afoot?
135: Gordon will have known - even I knew, and I don’t have a network of allies who tell me stuff. I thought (and still think) that when he appointed Hutton to the Cabinet, it was impressive evidence that he had decided not to bear grudges.
What did I do to this place for fifteen minutes?
123 jono There are several potential economic disasters waiting to trap Labour if they hang on too long. These include further large bankruptcies, loss of AAA rating, a sharp drop in the £, strikes and continued rise in unemployment.
Quite so. That, IMO, is the key to understanding how things are likely to develop over the next few months, starting most probably with high-profile corporate failures in January.
However, I think punters should consider this as shedding light on the likely shift in sentiment between now and the GE, rather than as indicating the likely date. I believe Brown will hang on until May regardless, partly for irrational reasons (he believes he is RIGHT and the poor benighted country just needs more time to see this), and partly for rational reasons (he has nothing much to lose, and maybe something might turn up to rescue him).
139. NPMP your not fooling anyone. You’ve got eyes and ears everywhere haven’t you?
NPMP, but that doesn’t sound much like Gordon de Granita?
The Mandelson-Darling vs Brown-Balls split over the PBR as well as economic and electoral policy in general is bringing us yet another step closer to 1931.
Do we think Mandelson will bite his lip and keep shtum ’til June?
My guess is that the next step for Mandy will be a Christmas photoshoot with the Blairs.
139 Nick P I thought (and still think) that when he appointed Hutton to the Cabinet, it was impressive evidence that he had decided not to bear grudges.
Fair point, although one could come up with less flattering interpretations, such as the need which any PM has to keep various factions happy, or simply a kind of misplaced self-belief: “I’ll show him I’m not an effing disaster”.
Or there’s that old saying saying about keeping your friends close and your enemies closer?
Surely, the news is not that John Hutton has publicly admitted to saying what everyone believed he said and which has been referred to umpteen times before here on PB.com. Rather, the news is that despite having said what he did, of which Brown must have been fully aware at the time, the Prime Minister nevertheless saw fit to appoint him to a very senior position within his Cabinet.
It does say a great deal about Gordon Brown’s objectivity.
Richie Rich can you stick to one identity? Swapping between the Cromwellian channeling and Valley Boy just makes you seem a bot. It fools no-one.
At least you have dropped the silly identity of the small red sausage boy from Argentina. And for that we should be truly thankful.
2 words - Frank & Field.
1 more - McBride
148 - I’m not so sure it is that clear cut. We have plenty of evidence that Brown is one to hold grudges. However lets not forget that Blair was forced out and so the Blairites were restless. I suspect people were kept to try and balance the cabinet. Lets not forget that Maggie didn’t remove the Wets until she had that second election under her belt.
Lets look at the timetable. Brown ascends to the leadership, he appoints a multi-wing Cabinet. He gets the inevitable bounce and hopes to have an election shortly. He can clear out the Blairites when he wings his own mandate. If he hadn’t have bottled it, he may well have done so.
Finally that all assumes he knew. I don’t think he did. Nick Robinson has been very tight-lipped about who it was. In fact it was a certain Celtic FC Chairman who was blamed and I’ve even seen reports of it being Tessa Jowell.
Me December 22nd, 2009 at 10:35 pm
Smart money on April? That is what I think. April 8th and no real budget. Dissolution on 11th March.
Pity, it really should be a week earlier.
Just done Dale’s poll.
On the Lab backbencher of the year list NPMP was shockingly missed off so I had to go for the saintly Mr Field instead..
152. Not to rub it in but even that muppet Gabble is on that list of contenders such is the ‘depth’ of choice!
The best Labour results in the local elections will almost certainly be if the general election is held on the same day, simply because a much higher turnout will help Labour.
Also Labour voters will be disillusioned in May if they’ve just been kicked out of power in March or April - except maybe in one or two regions where Labour does better than elsewhere in the general election such as Scotland. In those areas Labour voters may come out strongly in order to reiterate that “we” didn’t vote for the Tories, so-to-speak.
152. OGH and this site is in a couple of categories too so as a loyal herd member, I’ve done my duty there.
Sadly our much treasured ‘mole’ tim (we both love IHT) wasn’t down on the blogger of the year list so Paul Waugh got the nod on that by default.
154 Andy JS
Scottish local elections won’t take place till 2012. The ones in May 2010 are yours.
The paucity of Labour talent explains Hutton’s appointment in part. The other part is, as above, keeping enemies close and gagged in the cabinet.
Brown is not, repeat not, magnanimous. His career demonstrates it. The relationship with Blair, the red mist which comes down when anyone whispers ‘Tory’ in his ear, his long term fued with Madelson which never really ended but expediency brought them together again for a while, the employment and protection of slime such as McPoison, let alone Simple Simon the Pieman, the nastiness of his whips operation and the way he treats even the policeman outside Downing Street, throwing phones, shouting at the garden girls…. the list which demonstrates his character is a very long one and nowhere does magnanimity in victory feature.
Remember that smile in the car as he left Downing Street with Blair’s resignation in his pocket. That is the real Brown.
156 - not a good example that I chose there!
One point is that a general election has never yet coincided with London borough elections. If it does next year it’ll be interesting to see how it affects those borough elections - it would be the first time they have a large turnout of course if it does happen.
what this one?
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23365912-gordon-brown-scents-victory-as-blair-suffers-massive-revolt.do
158 Andy JS
That’s OK. I don’t know when English local elections are - unless I read it in places like this!
I gather you don’t elect all your councillors at the same time as we do?
157 that photo
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/nickrobinson/browndown.jpg
Scrapheap yep, that is the one.
He always has been a chump of the absolute highest order.
The Aye-ron chancellor…
151 No way can I see the final weekend of a GE campaign falling over Easter. March 25th still has considerable merit if we are out of recession, but May 6th likeliest.
just thinking about Mike’s thread and the Hutton interview this is surely the 2nd best political interview of the year, Gordon getting a D for achievement but a 1 for effort.
This is the winner in my book for 2009:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8292650.stm
IF these “revelations” regarding what a rather obscure ex-minister said about the Prime Minister comprise “the political interview of the year” then there Labour is right to hope - and Conservative correct to fear - that after 13 years in office the Labour Party has a shot at achieving a “soft landing” that is after next General Election a Tory minority or low majority (under 50) government.
I do hope that Hutton will pen his memoirs after the GE, ditto Darling. Bet these two could tell us a bit about watching the bitching and political backstabbing from either side of the fence.
Christina, what’s this about your holiday goodies being delayed on the high and low roads o’ Caledonia?
OldNat - some English councils elect all their councillors in one go such as the London boroughs. Others elect only a certain proportion of them each time. I don’t know who decides this or why.
{This is off topic - one bet I’d like to make is that world population will never reach 8 billion, which goes against all the current forecasts. I’ll have to find out if it’s possible to make such a bet.}
clearly if every minister who thought brown was a disaster was not able to hold a cabinet position then there would be few left.
a lie detector test to the question, “has gordon been a disaster as PM?” would bring a close to unform answer throughout the whole house of commons. including most labourites i would imagine.
a better question would be, “who was worse in their achievements as a PM, Blair or Brown?” that would really be a tough one.
i agree that only the big 3 should take part in the debate, based on their voting support.
based on recent results, i would have an english debate with tories, ukip and labour as the 3rd party.
i would have a welsh debate with labour, tories and plaid as the 3rd party.
and i would have a scottish debate with the snp, labour and the liberals.
if it gets extended to more than 3 then i would add the liberals in england and wales and the tories in scotland.
any thoughts christina?
170. Who counts? Who decides? Who judges? Will your bookmaker demand a re-count?
171. Tony Blair was the best prime minister this country has ever had. It was truly a great time to be British.
Hutton - ‘Gordon has been tremendously supportive and hard-working, and has put his his heart and soul into the job of Prime Minister’.
That is the funereal language.
146 - Another less flattering reason may be that Brown reacted to that old maxim “keep your friends close and your enemies closer”