Are their eyes really on second prize?
August 23rd, 2005Is it the deputy leadership the only thing that Cabinet ministers are running for?
Since the sad death of Robin Cook, it’s been widely said that Gordon Brown was planning to choose Cook as his deputy when he assumed the leadership of the Labour party. No slight is remotely intended to Robin Cook – a principled and extremely gifted politician – in pointing out that it’s unlikely this was a foregone conclusion. Though the Chancellor and the former Foreign Secretary improved their relationship in the last few years, there was a bitter personal feud between them for 25 years. And to follow the Liberal Democrats’ example by putting two Scottish MPs at the head of the Labour party wouldn’t obviously have created the “balanced ticket” which is often a key factor in selecting a deputy.
But whether or not Cook was in line for the job, speculation has been boosted about who will be Labour’s next deputy leader. In The Times on Saturday, David Charter assessed the likely contenders, mentioning Work and Pensions Secretary David Blunkett, Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, Wales and Northern Ireland Secretary Peter Hain, party chairman Ian McCartney, Health Secretary Patricia Hewitt, and Trade and Industry Secretary Alan Johnson. It’s a clear and well-informed article, and worth reading in full.
The article closes with some betting odds for the deputy leadership: Johnson – popular across the party and especially with the trade unions – is 7/2 favourite, with his nearest rivals Blunkett (9/2) and McCartney (11/2). These odds don’t seem to be available online: they may have been quoted by a bookie who hasn’t made them widely available. Or of course David Charter may be a gambling fan and have made them up, in which case he would feel very welcome on this site.
Paddy Power is quoting some rather different odds online, with Blunkett as 7/2 favourite, followed by Jack Straw (4/1), Charles Clarke (9/2) and Johnson (11/2).
All of this assumes Gordon Brown will be the next leader of the Labour party. But what if he isn’t? The next few years aren’t without their risks to him: an economic downturn would hit his fortunes harder than anyone else’s. And reading about the views of Mo Mowlam (not an uncritical ally of Blair) that Brown’s personality made him “unfit to be Prime Minister” does suggest that other senior Labour figures may privately feel the same way.
Labour’s deputy leader is elected by the same electoral college as the leader, with votes split equally between the MPs and MEPs, individual members, and trade unions. So anyone looking to build popularity for a deputy leadership race is also focusing on winning over the people who elect the leader. Being established as the favourite for the deputy’s job could be very handy if it turns out Brown doesn’t have the leadership sewn up. And in fact, Alan Johnson is the second favourite at 11/1 to be the next Labour leader. Not bad odds for someone who seems popular with the people who matter.
The problem? It might be hard to have it both ways for too long. If things do go smoothly for Gordon Brown, the party is likely to listen to his guidance on whom he wants as his deputy. But if things go awry, anyone who has stayed too close to Brown may suffer with him. The Chancellor is not reputed to be patient with those who aren’t his wholehearted supporters. If the deputy leadership contenders want to keep their options open, they have a careful path to tread.
Philip Grant
Guest editor
Mike Smithson is on holiday until 5th September.
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Ian McCartney!!! Ha ha ha… [ashen expression creeps over face] NO!!!
But Seriously I doubt he is even considering it himself, while he is in fact a gifted politician he makes Prezza (who I also have a great liking for) seem articulate and thoughtful
. He’d be a very bad choice indeed and I really don’t think he’s a possibility.
But Straw, Blunkett, Hewitt, Hain and Johnson are all possibilities as well as perhaps Hillary Benn. Benn is also very likely to be in the running to succeed Brown as would Yvette Cooper, what is more both are allies to one extent or another of Brown’s though Cooper has been a far more blatant one and in many ways has taken the rough with the smooth because of her deep loyalty to the Chancellor… not only does she deserve promotion but she’ll get it, and being an English MP from an English seat can’t hurt
Though I think of the younger generation Benn is the best placed to make a credible run for the deputy leadership.
I can imagine Alan Johnson as leader of the opposition but not PM… just not up to the job in many ways despite having mates in the Labour party in my opinion… whether it took the Labour party or the electorate to decide that I don’t know.
“It’s a clear and well-informed article, and worth reading in full.”
URL please.
Claire Short thinks Brown is unfit to be PM. Well she’s unfit to be a Labour MP, so it takes one to know one.
3 - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,175-1742365_1,00.html
(or you could click on the text in red, “…assessed the likely contenders…”)
oop, sorry, found it
1 - I think that even if Benn doesn’t quite have the support to actually take the deputy leadership, then the process would still benefit him in the longer term by putting a stake into the ground for a future contest (a la David Davis in 2001).
” And reading about the views of Mo Mowlam (not an uncritical ally of Blair) that Brown’s personality made him “unfit to be Prime Minister” does suggest that other senior Labour figures may privately feel the same way.”
but Mowlam has always been a Brown’s opponent. She even asked Blair to sack him. She could even be moved from personal reasons (according to her husband Brown vetoed her from all economic jobs)
3. When did Short say it?
7 - this is true, but was she really the only person Brown treated like that? It’s often presented as a certainty that Brown will become leader, but won’t there be enough people convinced of his “psychological flaws” to mount a strong challenge?
Alan Johnson would certainly be a safe pair of hands - especially when compared to the current deputy.
4 book value. I note your “Times” link failed . I’ve had the same problem and now just use their home page link and redirect from there ….. or are we both doing something stupid …. entirely in character for me on computers !
OT looking at life in the 1950’s I scanned the letters page in my copy of the “Daily Telegraph” and there is a wonderful little misif on the Scottish Raj from a certain SF Adefajo of Colchester :
“Sir - In Nigeria, between 1914 and 1960 all the eight colonial central governors, and almost all their regional lieutenant-governors, were Scots. So were about 90 per cent of top civil servants, educationalists and medical officers. Quite a number of Nigerians who worked with them, and succeeded them after independence, were educated at Scottish universities.”
World domination next !!
10 - clicking on it doesn’t work, but you can copy and paste it into the address bar of your browser.
“I note your “Times” link failed . I’ve had the same problem and now just use their home page link and redirect from there”
It doesn’t fail, if you just cut and paste the link and put it in the address bar - terribly simple.
I am always very impressed with Alan Johnson, who I think would make a great Deputy PM, so I think they should choose Ian McCartney.
Gordon Brown and Ian McCartney now there is a double act to appeal to Middle England.
8. She won’t be the only person, but every senior politicians has probably treated badly someone else during his career.
it could be that Mowlam was move more by her personal resentemment and not by the thought of Brown’s “psychological flaws”. And even if she was really worried by his “psychological flaws” , she could have been wrong. I understand it’s difficult here even only to think Brown could be a decent politician
Having said that, there will certainly be other labour MPs who don’t like Brown ( many the campaign group MPs, but they seem to live in their own world)
A thing I’v never understood is Blnkett’s appeal in labour voters. well, I can’t understand Blunkett’s appeal in any voters (except BNP voters).
how many signatures are needed to run in the duputy leadership contest? could the hard-left have their candidate?
12 - Now here is a double act to appeal to Middle England
Have you ever seen wee Jimmy Krankie and Ian McCartney in the same room?
THere is a feeling that it would be good to have a woman as deputy leader to smooth out GB’s more … er… gruff edges. But none of the female cabinet ministers would be an obvious choice and it would be a stretch to go outside cabinet.
For the leadership after next much as the Tories have developed their notting hill set the Labour party now has a number of ex-special advisers in Parliament (Balls, the two Milibands etc) who will probably put forward a candidate of their own, they are probably gently elbowing each other now ove who it will be.
Further thoughts about the debuty leadership contest, I’ve always assumed that the deputy leader has nothing really important to do and it’s more a homorific figure.
So maybe Hain, Straw, Johnson and Hewitt have better ambitions. I would chose to be health secretary over being debuty leader.
17 - Prescott has a pretty big department (smaller than before the election though). It’s not an intrinsic part of the deputy’s job but it certainly helps in lobbying for a big ministry. There’s no reason why someone couldn’t combine Deputy PM with Health Secretary.
12 - I fear that an underhand attempt to warn them off going for the leadership has already taken place.
‘Falling off a beanstalk’ sounds like an unsubtle hint from the whips office to me…
11/12 book value/Sophia. “..copy cut and paste..” !!!! Don’t confuse me with common sense and logic . Opening e-mails is a technological triumph for me ! Over the next six months I hope to work the word link system !! LOL…. oh and you’ll have noticed I can’t do smiley’s either !! ….. now back to my quill pen .
18. So the deputy PM could be Health secretary at the same time?
btw, all those talks about Labour big names make me remember Milburn (the man who was set to destroy Brown, but at the end….). Has anyone heard of him since the election night?
19 - I like the way in that article that the Ambulance Service spokesman refers to the injured party as “Wee Jimmy Krankie” rather than her real name.
21 - yes. Effectively John Prescott is what used to be called Environment Secretary but has now become the Office Of The Deputy Prime Minister. That was just done to put Prescott in that role, there’s no tradition or law that says that is what the ODPM is for.
23. ah, ok. thanks. If it should be a woman, I think Hewitt is the better one in the cabinet.
I think that in a Brown’s cabinet, Jowell could be dumped. Beckett is too old and Kelly seems a disappointment.
24 - I agree but I expect Woody will be along soon to disagree!
O/T back to the Tories, did anyone catch Hezza on Radio 4 this morning? I came in just as “Thank you Mr Heseltine” was being said. I think he was backing a Clarke/Cameron ticket, but Cameron’s people have scotched it.
26 - the BBC website was reporting that Cameron’s team has refused the dream ticket, though I don’t rate the BBC’s political analysis particularly highly (the online stuff anyway). It probably makes sense for Cameron though.
25. “Effectively John Prescott is what used to be called Environment Secretary ”
Book Value, but if Prescott does what the Environment Secretary should do, what the hell does Beckett do?
21/23 Andrea/book value . Prime Minister GB might resurrect Tarzan’s old title of First Secretary of State !
28 - this is a bit misleading. The “old” Environment Department actually had more to do with local government and planning than environmental policy per se. The environmental bits were combined with the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food to form the current DEFRA.
Nick Palmer knows DEFRA well so may be able to explain this more exactly.
29 - I believe Prescott already is First Secretary of State, formally.
I can see the point of a Deputy Leader when Labour’s in opposition, but I can’t help thinking that a contest while in Government would be at best pointless and at worst damaging and that there is a case for putting the office into cold storage once Prezza’s finished with it.
25. I would love to see Hewitt in the most prominent role possible. She does know best after all. I think Hilary Benn would be the ideal choice for Labours Deputy.
31 - wouldn’t Labour need a constitutional amendment for that? And wouldn’t making the amendment be potentially more damaging than just electing a deputy?
30 book value . You’re correct Prezza is FSoS , although sources cannot agree on when he was awarded this honorific . Any authoratative answer ?
[33] Where there’s a will there’s a way - Conference would pass a unanimous (? sp) - or nearly so - NEC recommendation, surely…
Interesting developments this morning. Kenneth Clarke now says he’s opposed to the Euro and the EU Constitution - and George Moonbat in the Guardian wants him to be imprisoned.
On the thread topic !! I wonder if PM GB will want to rock Prezza’s not inconsiderable boat so close to an election , I would have thought the easier option would be to leave Prezza alone and re-model the cabinet after the 2009/10 election. Then dump Prezza upstairs as Leader of the Lords !! They’ll just love and understand his strangled English on the red benches ….. Baron Two Hulls of the Steward of Cunard and OED .
36 Sean . Is that Derek Moonbat or Dingbat ? And if Derek Dingbat is it really DD !!
37 - Prescott will surely be looking to retire completely by the time of the next election anyway - I was surprised to learn that he is in his late 60s now and would be over 70 by the next election. A change of leader is the natural break and he would simply make clear in 2007 or so his intention to leave the frontbench at the next reshuffle and retire at the general election. A peerage, an autobiography and the millions to be made on the lecture (northern clubs) circuit for a man of his erudition would follow as night follows day. He would have to go to make space for Brown to make the cabinet his own - there would be no point keeping him there for 18 months and Prescott actually probably knows that as well as anyone.
Remember who will be voting for it - members! So forget Benn and Hewitt. I’d say it’ll be Johnson vs Blunkett.
40 - the electoral college is 1/3 members, 1/3 MPs and MEPs and 1/3 unions. I’d forgotten about the MEPs - I’ll edit the original article.
39 James . You may be correct , but I always get the impression that Prezza thinks he’s an permanent part of the Labour New Order and will be very useful to GB in the election ; it’s also less messy for GB to do his butchering after a fresh mandate. So if pushed I’d say Prezza stays until after the election and then he can rub ermine with Lady T and Lord Owen - a quite delicious prospect !
A new Deputy Leader of the Labour party has a tough challenge living up to the standards of the present incumbent, not only in the number of residencies she/he will have available, but particularly in providing helpful explanations of critical current issues. A measure of the challenge a newcomer faces is this example, which is particularly important with yet another dispute with the fire service looming. The DPM explained during the fire dispute, 2002:
As for the question about whether the TUC have agreement if the members of the 1978 agreement, that is a matter for the TUC and their agreement, but it is the matter for me to an agreement, as I informed the House, I did seek to find an agreement which I failed on the first occasion, dealing with this really exceptional in conflict.
Betting on the deputy leadership is offered by Paddy Power I notice, although the odds are different to this article…
42. or maybe Brown wants him to retire to have a safe seats to parachutee on of his many advisers
Always if an all women short list won’t be imposed. If Labour wants to achieve the 40% of women target, they shouldn’t select any more men.
A semi serious question: if some one has had a male to female sex change, could she apply for an all women shortlist?
43 B2W . Sounds quite plausible if you live in Prezzaland and if you don’t agree a knuckle sandwich might come your way !
44 - Many thanks for spotting that. I’ve updated the article.
45 - I’d have thought after Blenaeu Gwent they might have given up on the idea of all women shortlists. Of course anyone can apply to be on a shortlist - you just might not be accepted onto it.
48. Lennon, read it:
http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/newspolitics/tm_objectid=15826019&method=full&siteid=50082&headline=labour-set-to-oust-male-councillors-name_page.html
Re Prescott: why did he want so badly (according to newspapers, but never denied) to oust Gwyneth Dunwoody as transport committee chairwoman? What has the lovely Gwyneth done to Prezza? An old feud?
30/28 book value/andrea: Yes, book value is correct: environmental issues are dealt with by DEFRA, under Margaret Beckett: she and her team are generally reckoned quite green, and more highly-rated by environmental campaigners than the give-us-more-subsidy-and-gas-the-badgers farming lobbies. I used to have a minor (team PPS) role there before switching to the DTI. The Office of the Deputy Prime Minister is primarily responsible for local government issues, such as the way grants to councils are calculated, the way the emergency services are organised (thus the controversial merging of fire control centres is an ODPM issue) and above all planning. The breead and butter of the ODPM is supervising the process for planning applications - in theory they can ‘call in’ any of them for Ministerial scrutiny if they think that the process was incorrectly applied and the result is not in the public interest.
48: all-women shortlists for many vacant candidacies is settled Labour policy, Blaenau Gwent or not. It’s why you see a lot of women on the Labour benches, and a tiny number on the others. The question why all the parties don’t usually pick women unless this policy applies is hard to answer, but demonstrably true, and not just a British phenomenon.
[50] I think there’s been research to show that it tends to be women who are more opposed to the selection of other women - I have my little theory about this which I’m sure not posting here (or anywhere else)
If Labour remains in benign waters until next summer, and the government can remain fairly popular in the polls (and that’s not a given) Prescott might be kicked upstairs with a peerage, although a bye would be a big risk, especially if it boosts an anti-Blairite candidate in the ensuing leadership contest.
50. Nick, what do you think about the proposal discussed by Welsh Labour linked @49?
Which criteria are used to decide which seats will have a all women shortlist and which not?
I’ve mixed feeling about all women shortlists. Well, it’s right to try to have more women in Parliament, but all-women shortlist could end up in discriminations too. If in a constintuncy a man is the best candidate and an all women shortlist is imposed, it wouldn’t be fair (try to think if in 1983 an all woman shortlist would have been imposed in Sedgefield). It would be a rejection based only on gender (male in this case).
My understanding was that Prescott was a necessary selection as Deputy because he delivered the Unions. I’m not sure that he would be needed for that by GB who is already acceptable to the left wing of the party. Surely GB would choose a southerner for this role.
32 - Have to agree with Woody I would love Patricia Hewitt to have as high a profile as possible. She always sounds like she’d talking down to you and comes over as a bit patronising. Hillary Benn OTOH would seem to be the best choice from Labour’s point of view. He always comes across very well and seems reasoned and un-partisan and a genuinelly nice guy.
The KC thing is quite interesting. He seems to want it more this time, and seems more willing to go the extra mile, if he could form an alliance with Cameron he could maybe just do it.
55 just do it - NIKE (Not Indicated by Known Events
)
56 - As you well know Tabman I am not inclined to believe anything from the tofu-munching, volvo-driving, latte drinking, Guardian reading, yoga loving, foreign film watching, sandle wearing, Commie worshiping, Respect voting, Tory hating, pinko liberal lefties at the BBC!
57 - And their bad points?
You had me worried that you were about to launch into a he-who-shall-remain-nameless-but-methinks-he-doth-protest-too-much-type attack on my good self!
57 Max . Doesn’t sound much like the BBC people I Know !! I just hope their expence account is healthy this Thursday lunchtime !
Re. 54, such as Alan Johnson.
Re. 40, I disagree. Talking to other delegates at last year’s Labour Party conference, Hillary Benn was very well-regarded.
Re. 45, I would imagine so. The really interesting conundrum is this. As I understand it, under government legislation, you can legally change gender without having gender reassignment surgery. So, technically, it would have been possible for me to have got round the ‘woman only’ shortlist for conference this year by changing my name by deed poll to Rachel.
58 - Wouldn’t dream of it Tabman. I was just thinking about one of my favourite attack adds from the US elections. It had an elderly couple making similar remarks about Howard Dean and ended with them telling him to take his ‘left wing freak show back to Vermont where it belongs’! Only I couldn’t think of a British equivalent of Vermont. Islington maybe.
39.” A peerage, an autobiography”
James, how many people do you think would be interested to read Prescott’s autobiography?
But he will probably write it anyway. Frontbenchers always find editors to publish their works.
57. Max, what you’ve just wrote sounds like what Edward Leigh usually say about British society.
The perfect labour deputy leader with a strong appeal to middle England is certainly Chris Bryant. Male posters here will try to deny, but it’s a well known fact all over the world that all English men wear y-fronts (and would be happy to vote to one of their best representatives).
This will give Jack and Tabman the chances to link some of their recent findings on the web
61 - isn’t Ben & Jerry’s from Vermont? I think Islington is not as it once was; only a few hundred votes from our grasp (or the Southern part at least).
63.” think Islington is not as it once was; only a few hundred votes from our grasp (or the Southern part at least). ”
Islington South was a Lab/SDP marginal back in 80’s too. Chris Smith won it in 1983 with a 1% majority and in 1987 with a 2%.
Then in 1992 the Libdems collapsed and Smith was returned with a 26% majority over the tories.
64 - Interesting fact, Andrea. Just looking into the background, apparently the Labour MP defected to the SDP in 1982 and then stood in 1983 and 1987 losing very narrowly both times. So the close elections were perhaps less a comment on the demographic make-up of the seat at the time and more a split Labour vote.
62 - if they are wearing Y fronts, it would be an improvement on recent pictures…
57. Great Lib Dem desciption Max. Can you do a simular demolition job on us young Tories Tabman.
Wasn’t Alistair Campbell precluded from standing for Burnley due to an all woman shortlist. They seem highly discriminatory to me. How do they work exactly? How come Ed Balls got selected for his seat.
62 Andrea . After yesterday evenings revelation of rampant Scottish trunk and Mrs Jack W wonderment, I’m reluctant to link anything other than nuns !
http://www.funnyhub.com/pictures/img/nuns-at-the-bar.jpg
65. yes, the pre 1983 Labour MP for Islington South defected to SDP and stood against Smith both of time. I think you’re probably right about this affecting the result.
All Islington MPs defected to SDP. There were 3 Islington seats at the time. The other 2 MPs fought for the SDP selection
in Islington North. The one rejected left the SDP and stood as an independent. So in Islington North there were 2 former labour MPs and Jeremy Corbyn standing in the same seat.
69 - Excellent! Was it at all close in North?
“So the close elections were perhaps less a comment on the demographic make-up of the seat at the time and more a split Labour vote. ”
That’s probably correct. Islington Council remained solidly Labour up until 1998, I think (in 1982 Labour won 50 out of 51 seats, even after a majority of the previous Labour group defected to the SDP). Now the Lib Dems have a huge majority on the local council, and are much stronger in depth across Islington South. It should be an easy Lib Dem gain next time.
WRT all-women shortlists, it’s interesting to note that the puppet Parliaments of the Warsaw Pact countries tended to have very high levels of female representation, by comparison with the West, which they naturally made much of; yet as soon as free elections were brought in in Eastern Europe, female representation plummetted. It does seem to be the case that in almost all democracies, more men than women will pursue full-time political careers.
70. Not very much. The tories came second.
Corbyn got 40.4%, the tory candidate 25.3%, the SDP candidate (former MP for Islington Central) 22.4%, the former MP for Islington North got 11.1%.
Very confusing situation!
62 - It’s all in the newspaper serialisation with political autobiographies now I think. Prezza just needs a couple of juicy revelations (oo-er) and he should do alright out of it. If only we had a political bookstore owner, former Tory PPC and occasional contributor who was well placed to comment on such matters to set us right on the issue.
As I have mentioned before here I think, we were recently robbed of the only recent politician whose autobiography might well have been worth the cover price.
71.” are much stronger in depth across Islington South. It should be an easy Lib Dem gain next time.”
Or maybe not. It’s not guaranteed that the Libdems will gain seats next time too. After a big swing, another big swing could happen, but it’s a not a sure thing (look at St Helen South or Birmingham Perry Barr).
It would be interesting to see what the Libdems target startegy against labour will be. Will they target half of their seats (like they did with the tories this year trying to out half of the shadow cabinet and at the end they ended up to lose their already held seats) or will they be be a bit more humble?
Re women in politics. It would be interesting to know how many women actually apply to become tory candidates.
Roast beef eating, Rover 75 driving, sherry drinking, Telegraph reading, golf loving, radio 2 listening, brogue wearing, Bush worshipping, BNP voting, Lib Dem hating, viyella shirted rightists.
Thats the young Tories for you Woody 662 - they are all 60 plus aren’t they?
Nothing wrong with drinking sherry, it would be a shame for liberals to deprive themselves of the pleasures of a crisp manzanilla.
Image is important I hear tell. On that basis look at this picture of modernity. You really must ask yourself whether you would vote for this manfor anything other than Jazz Secretary of your local pub.
A BBC picture today, no less.
Very good Icarus. I only do 1 of them (we won’t go into Bush worshipping). Perhaps I’m in the wrong party.
73. Politicians autobiographies that could generate interests?
Blair and Brown’s autobios for sure. Mandelson’s and Blunkett’s one could be interesting too (especially Mandelson).
Boris Johnson will certainly find an editor to publish his autobiography and an Ann Widdecombe’s autobio could be amusing.
A George Galloway’s book will certainly happen (he said he’s already writing it. It’ll call it “The battle of Bethnal Green”.)
Someone could publish a Glenda Jackson’s autobiography, but the editors (and the readers) will be more interested if she has slept with some Hollywood stars than to her political activity.
Then maybe there’ll be another Edwina Currie in Labour’s benches….
79 - I think Blair and Brown’s autobiographies might actually be quite dull. I’m not sure they’re particularly blessed with self-insight. Mandelson I do think is an interesting character.
80. the problem with Mandelson is that you are never sure if he’s being totally honest or not.
74. It would be interesting to know the proportion of women activists/members for each party as well.
75. 3/11
Alistair Campbells will be the most interesting of all I’d have thought.
75 - Whats wrong with roast beef and golf?
75 - don’t show that to Jon, Icarus
83. It would be interesting to read something from a well balanced backbencher too, someone who could see everything without being too involved. The problem is to find the right man/woman and an editor interested.
I’ve the feeling that Libdem MPs (except Charlie) won’t find many editors interested in them.
Political autobiographies tend to be deathly dull, over-long and self-justifying. Clinton had plenty of material for his but by all accounts it was pretty turgid (as was his book).`
To be any good they need to either be exceptionally honest or written by somebody of great intellect (and ideally both). Neither are attributes closely associated with politicians. Maybe somebody will surprise us - it has to be said that there is no positive correlation between the prominance of the author and the quality of the product. Perhaps a lowly PPS at the DTI (for example) will shock us all by coming out with a humdinger.
67 - Woody, if we’re talking specifically young Tory (and although this is circa 1987 I don’t think the look has changed much in the interveniing period) we get:
9-Course Dinner-munching, BMW-driving, Pimms drinking, Speccie reading, polo loving, blog writing, tweed jacket stripey shirt jeans and brogues wearing, Thatcher worshiping, Leigh voting, Lib Dem hating, young Tories at the EUCA!
87. I’ve actually never read any of them (except little parts on newspapers)!
Portillo is another one who could very well write an autobiography.
Next Christmas in the best bookshops:
“Larger than life” by Gwyneth Dunwoody
“My humble life: the story of a limpid career” by Peter Mandelson
“My life as a Labour loyalist” by Jeremy Corbyn (serialized in The Socialist Worker Journal)
“My sexual adventures” by Michael Portillo (serialized in The Spectator)
“Did I mention I’m gay?” by Alan Duncan (serialized in “Attitude”. so it must includes more photos than text)
“A sober life” by Charles Kennedy
“How to win in a safe seat” by Peter Tatchell and Maggie Jones
That would explain why BMW sent me a 1 series booklet. They must know I’m a young Tory. (not buying one, I might start getting the urge to cut people up)
89 - Excellent Andrea , Your sense of humour gets more British -like by the day . You must be having private tuition from Jack W .
86 - Now Kennedy’s is an example of one which could actually be rather good as he has great style - but equally it could be abysmal. Menzies Campbell is the only other sitting Lib Dem whose autobiography a publisher might sensibly look at publishing at the moment. He had an interesting pre-MP life, was closely involved in the Blair/Ashdown project, was prominant in relation to the war and had a battle with serious illness. Mind you, it is a tiny proportion of politicians of any party who would be worth publishing at all (he said, still trying to intice Dale into commenting).
89 - my favourite real titles are John Nott’s “Here Today, Gone Tomorrow” (after Day’s remark which prompted Nott to flounce out of an interview) and Bill Rogers’ “Fourth Among Equals” (after his SDP Gang of Four billing).
I’m sure William Hagues will be good but hopefully he still has a lot of career to go yet.
91. Mark Senior, I will refuse to meet with Jack W since his decision to marry MAx in Bromley.
There’s no more decency in your country!
93 - title suggestions:
“To Baldly Go”
“If the Cap Fits”
“McKinsey - the joy of Ex (-Leadership)”
“Tory-Boy Story”
94 - Andrea, I thought he’d asked you to meet him at his convenience?
87 It might be true that you need to be either an exceptionally honest or intelligent politician to write an interesting autobiography. On the other hand Alan Clarke proved thay you certainly don’t need either quality to write a fascinating diary.
96. Those nobles who think they still have their middle age priviliges….where’s Roberspierre?
I don’t want to scare someone, but Helen Clark said she wanted to write a book about Blair. If she finds a publisher, I bet it’ll be fun (especially if co-wrote with Jane Griffith).
97 - Surely the pleasure of his diaries are that they are honest? Alan Clark may have been unprincipled but was not dishonest.
Bestseller List from pb.com regulars :
Max : My Love Affair with Hibs.
Andria : A Life of Sin with Anne Widdecombe.
Sean Fear : The Socialist Way - The Only Way.
book value : An Editor’s Life at the Top.
Rik W : I am Ted Heath’s Lovechild.
Woody : The Futures Orange The Futures Liberal Democrat.
Blue2Win : My Years as John Prescott’s Speech Writer.
Tabman : The Sweetness of Conservatism.
Mark Senior : Coining It In With Norman Lamont.
Jack W : Jacobite Triumphs of the 21st Century.
100 - Jack I never thought you could stoop so low!
88 - Tabman I think you’ll find times have changed. Allthough our friends in Exeter do appear to be something of an exception! The thought of owning tweed jackets and brogues terrifiew me allthough I cannot deny a 9 course dinner does have a certain appeal. Provided each course is deep fried of course!
100. Great, but you spelled my name in a wrong way, so I won’t be able to get royalties (but I will give you my pardon, becuase with all the spelling mistakes I usually make, I shouldn’t even complain!).
You forgot:
Sophia: Derek Conway. A true Passion
100 - Jack, its actually The Sweetness of Conserves. I’m joing the WI to do some recruiting.
101 - I’d be interested if any recent Cambridge graduate who posts here could give an (honest) view of what the current generation of CUCA hacks is wearing
102 - and Bullseye: Ill-thought out Rantings
101 - could you really manage 9 different types of chocolate bar in one sitting though? I suppose you could replace one with pizza as a cheese course.
100 - One for Printz: How I gave George and Tony the Benefit of the Doubt?
101. What more do you expect from a pinko
103 Tabman. No it’s “The Sweatiness of Cons - My Time in Parkhurst”
Nick Palmer: The Printz of Whales - DEFRA Discuusions with my Freed Willy.
So long as there was plenty of Irn Bru and Lager to wash them down with. And you don’t have to restrict it to chocolate bars. I would highly recommend a deep fried Cream Egg.
101. Max, you shouldn’t try to hide your real self. We all know that you’re an Hibs’ supporters, that you’re Leigh’s ghost writer, you’ve a Patricia Hewitt’s poster over your bad, that you wear Yfronts, that you had an affait with Edwina Currie and you voted Libdems last May.
(not sure what is the worst thing metioned).
To change the subject just a bit, and still OT… to settle a dispute, but not a bet… who are 20 oldest MPs currently in the House of Commons?
No prizes offered, because Andrea is bound it win.
Well, I think Piara Khabra must be #1.
111 book value . And Sarah Teather seems to age 10 years every time she speaks in the Commons.
109 - Andrea, worst things in order:
1) Hibs
2) Lib Dems
3) Y-fronts!!
4) Edwina
5) Edward Leigh
6) Patricia Hewitt - I didn’t say I personally objected to being talked down to!
112 - I think she’s only the fourth youngest Lib Dem now, behind Jo Swinson, Julia Goldsworthy and Dan Rogerson.
111. yes, Khabra is the oldest. He was born in 1924.
Sir Peter Tapsell was born in 1930 and he’s the oldest tory (I think)
The Lib Dems like youth don’t they.
115 Andrea . God’s member for Ulster is 79 !
Ian Paisley was birn in 1926 and is the second oldest MP.
Alan Williams, Bob Wareing and Gwyneth Dunwoody was born in 1930.
Dennis Skinner was born in 1932.
there’re other old people still in Parliament. I’ll look better later.
116 - I think its called having a balanced portfolio, woody
116 - is the Tory equivalent gerontophilia?
Does anyone have any reliable figures on the under 30’s membership of the different political parties?
121 - membership and activism don’t always correlate.
120 Tabman. No it’s called Archeology
122 - Is this going back to the idea that some Lib Dem target seats had loads of activists but not many members. I think it was our friend Neil (who also told us that MH was in serious trouble in Folkestone!) who was telling us all about this and the LD target seats that had delivery networks of 500+. I’m still not entirely convinced.
124 - (Unfortunately) its quite common for Lib Dem activists not to be members. This contrasts with eg Conservative Club members who I think still count as party members even thoguh they only turn up to play poker, and many Labour TU members, who aren’t activists 9I stand to be corrected on these points). I would be surprised if we didn;t have the lowest membership though.
“Alan Williams, Bob Wareing and Gwyneth Dunwoody was born ”
obviously “were born”.
Joe Benton was born in 1933.
Glenda is probably in the top 20 too (she was born in 1936).
125 - poker??? Snooker, obviously! (What a Freudian slip … )
Has anyone seen Matlock recently? I was hoping he’d drop into our blog to denounce the loony nonsense on it
126 Andrea . Apart from those mentioned , over 65 :
Gerald Kauffman and Alan Williams are 74
Paul Flynn, Austin Mitchell, Michael Mates and Richard Taylor - 70
Eddie McGrady - 69
Anne Clwyd - 68
Alan Haselhurst - 67
Stuart Bell, John Prescott, Ian Gibson, Michael Lord, and John Horam - 66
Jack W is a thigh slapping 101 !! Woof woof
103 - Apologies for the delayed response - actuallly had to do some work. Anyway, last time I saw a recent CUCA graduate was when he kindly took me to dinner at the Carlton, so was the cigar smoking, pin-stripe blue suit wearing, brogue loving chap he was at Uni.
125 Tabman. Lib Dems ” .. have the lowest membership… ”
Surely that dizzy distinction goes to the Gary Bushell and his five fellow travellers in the English Democrats !
129 Lennon . Will you kindly desist from working and join us in our nation defining pursuit . Thank you .
128 - Andrea, could you produce a bell-curve graph of all MPs ages?
129 -
Plus ca change …
130 - and a Dachshund called Gerald?
113 Max . Your nightmare :
Acting as Best Man, Max yesterday attended the wedding of Edward Leigh and Patricia Hewitt at Easter Road, Hibs. Max was assisted by his wife, the Matron of Honour, Edwina Currie. Max wore a fetching pair of yellow Liberal Democrat Y fronts, emblazoned “winning here” to the front and on the rear “return to your seat and prepare for government”
Max is now being detained at Her Majesties Pleasure, Broadmoor.
The things that go on in tour mind Jack. I wonder if any of Edward Leighs mob read this site. Probably regard Max and I as pinkos.
Andrea at 53: Deselection of sitting councillors because they’re male would be pretty drastic! A step too far in my opinion, and not necessary as turnover is enough to make brisk progress without it. I’m sceptical whether it’s a serious proposal with any chance of adoption rather than a scare story.
Tabman at 122: around half my (roughly) 100 activists at the GE were non-members. By definition a non-member activist is keen to help, whereas someone may be a member for all kinds of other reasons - wants to be (or is) a councillor, likes the social events, wants to show support without having time to do anything, etc. Ideally the activists move on to become active members, but like I guess most sitting MPs I have a ring of supporters who don’t necessarily transfer to the party (and who will deliver my leaflets but not national ones).
James at 87: Yeah, right. I trust you work for a publisher and look forward to your munificent advance.
There is a loyalty problem in memoirs - to sell well one has to either reveal scandalous things about oneself (to the embarassment of friends and relatives) or outrageous opinions about one’s colleagues (which rather betrays all those pleasant late-night chats in the tearoom). “I did this, then I did that” fails to grip. Even Healey’s erudite style doesn’t really make his book terribly fascinating. Insights into process (Crosland, Benn) do get a certain following, though.
Tabman @125, I don’t think that membership of a Conservative Club makes you a member of the Conservative Party per se. But some Conservative Clubs do require their members to be members of the Party.
I think that only those who pay a subscription to their local constituency association are entitled to attend general meetings of the association, which means that they must pay a subscription of at least £15 p.a., unless they joined prior to 1998. However, some associations let them pay that subscription *through* the Conservative club, which then owes it to the association.
Only people who pay the minimum subscription of £15 a year may vote in leadership elections (regardless of when they joined) although that right may shortly become meaningless.
Confusingly, the computer software that we use to generate canvass cards *does* deem Conservative Club members to be members of the Party. This causes a lot of confusion when someone listed as a Conservative Party member tells you that they’ve always voted Labour.
AFAIK, membership of the Conservative Clubs is far greater than membership of the Conservative Party. In places like Liverpool, the membership of Conservative Clubs would even exceed the number of people who actually vote Conservative.
136 - I cannot understand why Labour party officers should put out a scare story about this subject unless the objective is to get a slightly less strident policy through .
I still think the best memoirs ever published were the Crossman Diaries - a real insight into politics of the 60’s and 70’s .
128-132. I only checked the ones I remember to be quite old. Like Jack pointed out I left out many of them (I should have remembered Gerald Kauffman. My memort starts to fail!).
113. Edwina worse than Leigh? Pay attention, she’s a vendicative woman. She could accuse you to be a sexist homophobic racist (like she almost did with Major).
135. Thanks for the answer. From what I’ve undeerstood, that proposal has been discussed, but I doubt they’ll really adopt it.
“o sell well one has to either reveal scandalous things about oneself (to the embarassment of friends and relatives) or outrageous opinions about one’s colleagues ”
hopefully you won’t write an autobio to reveal an hot affair with Ruth Kelly!
Innocent Abroad @ 51: I cannot remember which wit said about 100 years ago “Men and women have at least this in common, that they both distrust women”. When you see certain of the comments made (by both men and women) about women PPCs (especially, but not exclusively, in the Conservative Party), it’s difficult to doubt.
Can someone explain (perhaps not for the first time, but I’ve seen nothing) why all-women short lists were declared illegal about 10 years ago but seem OK now?
137 - Membership of social clubs particularly in the North of England has little relationship to the titles . I remember the Polish Liberal Club in Blackpool ( a lot of Poles settled in Blackpool after WWII ) most of the menbers in the 70’s were neither Polish nor Liberal .
[140] A little googling - it was the American H L Mencken. As to short-lists, I think there was an amendment to the Sex Discrimination Act to exclude them…
135 woody . Pinko !! You’ll be lucky …. the Cornerstone mob have you and Max marked of as wide-eyed Commies !!
139 Andrea . Add “Burger” Gummer to your list of the old and bold he’s 65 !!
Re. 62, this English (well, three quarters, anyway) male wears boxer shorts.
135-143. What are “pinkos”?
143. Jack W, I haven’t learnt the full list of UK MPs yet. So I’ll take lots of time to learn even all their date of birth.
144. Are you 3 quarters English or you wear 3 quarters of boxer shorts?
Anyway, I think Chris Bryant doesn’t descriminate against men wearing boxer shorts, so if you really want to write him an email, maybe he’ll answer (but remember he likes “good long f**k”)…..
146 Andrea . Phew !! Yes I understand Chris is keen on outdoor pursuits , “a good long f**k” is essential to get to grips with virgin territory .
http://www.davronline.co.uk/media/product_images/4081TW.jpg
146/147 Andrea. Poor book value ….. did he really know what he was letting himself in for !!
148 - I’d forgotten what a bad influence you and Andrea were on each other. You’ll be restricted to posting on separate threads if you aren’t careful
Re. 146, very good, three quarters English.
I’m not really tempted to e-mail Chris Bryant about my choice of underwear - I’d prefer to get off with Julia Goldsworthy, Yvette Cooper or Caroline Flint.
Mark @141, there was once a private members’ club near Paddington, run by an elderly German, called the “SS Club”. As far as I know, no former members of the SS belonged to it, but the name reflected this chap’s political sympathies.
149. I start with serious posts in the morning, but by mid-afternoon I usually degenerate in those type of things.
Then it’s somewhat linked to politics. Haven’t you ever asked why Chris Bryant managed to increase his majority in a night Labour lost votes?!
Jack, you didn’t answer to my question about pinkos.
150. Richard, are you sure you don’t want to add Clare Short to your list?
Pinko - supporting socialist ideas and principles.
153. oh, thanks. Once there were many in Labour party, now maybe 20-30.
154 - not as many as that!
152/153 Andrea/woody. Quite , although I like to refer to “pinkos” as Pink Champagne Communists ! Although to some it’s just a load of bullocks :
http://www.whitelakes.co.au/ang/angus_images/A_Pink_Champagne.gif
155. Vino, the 25 of the Campaign Group, then maybe Clare Short and Glenda Jackson. But not many more.
153-156. Why are they called in this way? I’m still trying to trade with you (Jack) some of the Italian communists.
Jack, your link doesn’t want.
156 - Jack W - I always thought a pinko was a liberal who espoused views that he didn’t practise.
157 Andrea. Communists = reds . Diluted Communists = Socialists = Pinkos .
Pink Champagne Socialists - it really is bullsh*t
http://www.whitelakes.com.au/ang/angus_images/A_Pink_Champagne.gif
157.”your link doesn’t want. ”
ops, “doesn’t work”
This is what happen when you post while watching a Miss Marple TV movie!
131 - I read recently that Gary Bushell used write about punk for the NME and was a member of the SWP. Does anyone know if this is correct?
Cheadle Hulme Conservative club, by the way, seems to have a membership based almost entirely on people who’ve joined to play snooker. Although this can have political knock-on effects - I read somewhere that the Tories revival earlier this century on Amber Valley Council was indirectly based on a policy of getting new snooker tables at the various Conservative clubs in the area.
158 Vino . No no , that’s a Liberal Democrat !!