Should BBC politics be outsourced to one of these?
March 12th, 2008
How long are will to have to ensure tedious BBC coverage?
For the last few months I’ve spent an hour or so each day watching the developing story of US election on CNN and on the web-sites of the major networks - ABC, CBS and MSNBC and its been hugely impressive.
The graphics are innovative, the presentation is sharp and most of all the analysis is superb and expertly prepared. Complex situations and stores are presented in an informative and compelling way and the only outsiders who are ever featured are the players themselves or real experts.
Contrast that with the pathetic scenes that we had to endure during the BBC’s budget coverage this afternoon. Almost as soon as the Chancellor had made his statement and Cameron his response we were taken to Gateshead to get the reactions of someone in a restaurant, a pensioner and teacher. It was just embarrassing and a complete waste of time and money. We want the top down view presented in a lucid manner.
The BBC got worse. To find out how this had gone down in the city they had a reporter with a microphone going round a trading floor. Why could not they have set up a tight and informative two minutes with one of the heads of research?
The problem is that the BBC doesn’t get it. It’s not got through to its collective thick head that those who watch this coverage in the middle of the day have a passionate interest in trying to work out what the government is trying to do and what the political and economic impact will be.
Where are the Wolf Blitzers, Tim Russerts or Chuck Todds of British TV? I am sure the talent is here but the bosses haven’t worked out what their programmes should be about.
It doesn’t bode well for the general election coverage.
Mike Smithson
MessageSpace Advertising
They should just outsource the bbc. No more telly tax.
John Reith could be connected up to the national grid he is spinning in his grave so fast.
Well said Mike. When Jade Goody appeared, I switched over. Also why is the BBC’s most effective presenter ANdrew Neill shunted off for budgets? Madness
The Beeb is rotten to the core.
From previous thread..319. Surely increases in booze and fags will hurt Labour supportes disproportionately..also as Davey C pointed it out it was you lot that got us into this mess in the first place with very little to show for it in terms of value for money improvements in public services and literally nothing put aside for a rainy day…
The miracle of McBroon’s economic competence sinks slowly into the quagmire…
How on earth did Euan Davies think that nationalising NR didn’t break the fiscal rules?
Today’s coverage was a new low.
Agreed - the fact that they missed the start of Cameron’s speech to burble inanely and failed to cover Clegg at all on terrestrial is disgraceful.
If the BBC can’t uphold simple, serious broadcasting on issues of national importance we’ll end up getting our news from a UK equivalent of Fox TV, with Mirror TV providing the balance.
We could also do with the retirement of Brillopad Neil - who’s long past his sell by date and probably has done more to dumb down politics than any other broadcaster.
One of my favourite things ever was a tabloid postulating what a recent budget would mean for Harry Potter.
Well said Mike, if the BBC wasn’t the only channel other than S4C that I could get then I’d have switched over as soon as possible. Al Jazeera is a quality news station.
The BBC coverage was so embarrassing and lacking in robust debate that it was too embarrassing to watch, I turned over to another news outlet.
The BBC’s Jon Pienaar is busy on radio 5 trying to re-write Ed Balls pathetic and revealing jibe of “so what!” in response to Cameron’s statement that Britain has the highest tax burden in history. Pienaar originally claimed that what Balls actually said was “a swot”, but now he’s claiming that he said “so weak”.
It’s Pienaar and his lame excuses for his Labour mates that are “weak” methinks. Balls shot his own foot off with that remark. Let’s hope he gets made chancellor, as widely tipped, it’ll be great ammo for the Tories in the next GE.
In answer to your question, to have an “expert” give his/her opinion would be seen as “elitist” by the BBC. Instead of that we had to have a load of Z-list “celebrities” giving their views on what should be in the budget (judging by the hike in alcohol prices Jade Goody has been a major influence on Darling) and we then had a vox pop from a set of “ordinary people”. To be fair to Jenny Scott, who I believe has a Phd. in Economics, she did seem embarrassed asking banal questions to a token pensioner, a token businessman, etc.
Its almost like the BBC does not have the courage to provide robust debate on politics anymore, dumb it down and you won’t take the flak.
please tell me Jade Goody wasn’t really involved on the BBC budget output. please tell me it is just a joke
7. Brillopad is the best they’ve got. Only one who goes for politicians apart from Paxman.
I think Darling shot himself in the foot by going on about a global slowdown right at the start…….then saying he expected domestic growth to slowdown and growth would then be derived from exports! Interesting economics that - I do not think that much growth can be derived from Europe where the Euro has aprieciated against sterling as their demand for imports of the kind we can supply thenm with is not likely to improve. The US is knackered plus the dollar has subtantially weakened.
I think the governments strategy is built on foundations of jelly! Could be a real bad patch we are going into this year.
The English taxpayer in essence has been raped again by the scottish bretherin of Brown and Darling. How any English MP can support this assualt on the english is beyond me.
Totally agree. The UK is maybe the fourth or fifth biggest economy in the world. London is the 1st or 2nd financial centre of the world: definitely the most important city in Europe. It is the greatest cultural capital on the globe.
Britain has a population of 62 million people, highly educated, very mobile, well-informed, incredibly well-travelled, speaking the international language they invented, etc etc.
There is so obviously a market for a smart, informed, sassy news and politics station that isn’t the BBC. We already lead Europe in newsprint: the Economist, the FT, and to a lesser extent the Times/Guardian, are arguably the most influential journals in Europe, let alone the UK.
The trouble is the BBC is publicly-funded so it feels it “has” to cater to “stupid people”, because it thinks most of the public is “stupid”, hence Jade Goody.
Enuff. The weird thing is that, speaking from Bangkok, I can say that BBC World does a very good job of covering serious world issues, interspersed with the best of BBC cultural programmes. It’s a fine station.
Yet in Britain we are treated to drivel…
We need a serious private politics/news station in Britain, a la CNN, to threaten the BBC’s domestic hegemony. It shouldn’t be impossible: getting jolly good graphics and a few good reporters does not cost the earth. You wouldn’t need billions of viewers to finance it.
I hereby nominate myself as the neutral and unbiassed Brussels correspondent.
Andrew Neil, Robert Peston, Stephanie Flanders, Paxo - the only 4 half decent hacks left at Al-Beeb.
Well said Mike.
17 - despite several months ago promising never to respond to a post of yours, this has to be the most unadulterated drivel you’ve ever spouted.
I’m sure most English MPs are desparate for the tax revenues North Sea oil bring at $108 per barrel.
17.I am listening to John Swinney saying that the Treasury is using Scotland as a cash cow as we speak. Different view at both ends of the country with appropriate variations on figures to back it up.
18. “I hereby nominate myself as the neutral and unbiassed Brussels correspondent.”
I think this is a fantastic idea could we also get ColinW interviewing the politicians
23. If we do set up a new channel, I nominate Roger as the roving “vox pop” correspondent, visiting dowdy pubs in Salford and working mens’ clubs in the Gorbals, due to his unique ability to empathise with the lower orders. We all know he’d really enjoy it.
NickPalmer could be our bloodsports stringer, reporting from dogfights in Kabul and cockfighting in Tennessee.
Any more suggestions?
Great thread Mike - looks as though Jade Goody today marked a new low for BBC current affairs coverage.
The “man-in-the-street” reactions are always incredibly tedious.
If labour hacks are trying to spin away the Balls-up, then it shows how serious a gaff it is.
Agree Completley!
It’ll of course only get worse when we get round to local elections and then the general… i dred to think of the “graphics” we’ll have Jeremy Vine employing to convey to us the various party’s performances… and then the poor uninformed sods who’ll be either asked to comment or put up by the respective parties.
Mike,
The Beeb must have really annoyed you on this, as its normally the tories who pan the Beeb (or are you defecting as well?)
21. Thanks for your positive comments. How much does oil account for UK total GDP and what was the tax take on it? The look at UK government expenditure in Scotland and look at the figures. No cheating by taking Trident and other UK government spending.
24. Rod Crosby as correspondent to Tel Aviv?
I listened to the whole on Five Live [minus a small trip into a shop during Darling - didn’t miss much].
I am biased, but I thought Cameron was brilliant. Its a rotten job but he was a vast improvement on last year. Even Pinear had to admit he aquited himself well.
Couldn’t wait to get in and switch the TV on. Was really dissappointed to find the BBC must have been covering another budget, in another country, in another not even parrallel universe.
“How long are will to have to ensure tedious BBC coverage?”
Mike, do you mean “How long are we to have to endure tedious BBC coverage?”
18. Yes, the BBC World coverage is excellent. The problem with the US networks is that US politics, high profile crimes, and the odd report from Iraq is all we get. I haven’t seen a single report here on the Spanish elections.
Tressage to cover the Conservative conference.
19 Not sure about Stephanie Flanders.
I’d also agree about this man in the street business. Same on local news, asking idiots on the street for their opinion on a matter they have no knowledge about. How does that help the viewer? Strange that we’re supposed to be at our most educated, yet we’re also at our most dumbed down.
24. francis covering the Westminster parliament?
I don’t think the press will have much positive to say about the budget, not unless Dan writes the front pages!
Desperate Dan can be the new chanels devil advocate correspondent!
34. And Martin Day on Labour’s.
Did they seriously ask Jade Goody for her opinion on the budget???! I know she was on This Week last friday, but there are limits!
36.No, we should have him as Holyrood correspondent.
Yes indeed. Our once wonderful British Broadcasting Corporation is now sadly , the State (aka New Labour) Propaganda Corporation.
38. Yes, i have a good understanding of the Labour party - Rape, pilage and burn!
43. Re the conference - you could get drunk in the hotel bar and get frisky with Dianne Abbot.
The BBC coverage is dumbed down so people with an economic understanding equivalent to a 7 year old can understand it.
They are pathetic. They clealry do not understand anything themselves…cos they often get the US/UK index closes wrong.
The only good thing is when they say “huge fall or huge rally” you know the market is about to reverse:-)
I agree with Mike.. outsource it and cut the licence fee.. but as they spend zero on it…(more on Coronation Street or Eastenders or some such intellectually stimulating program)
Well said Mike.
I hear Sooty and Sweep are doing a Budget Special on News 24 later though… that’s the high-brow coverage taken care of.
I’d just like to take this opportunity to thank the Tory cretins on the Government benches for increasing my income tax payments, and hope that those posters to politicalbetting who are fortunate enough to receive part of the extra £1 a week that I will pay (due to earning more than ~£19000) will spend it wisely.
I look forward to hearing about the rebellion on the Labour backbenches at the confirmation of this redistribution from the poor to the rich.
Oh. Well, in your own time then. [ba5tard5]
46. theres tories on the government benches!
[46] - To clarify: I pay extra because I earn less than ~£19,000, some posters to politicalbetting will be the beneficiaries of my extra contribution if they are paid more than ~£19000
[47] - They certainly act like it!
44. “more on Coronation Street or Eastenders or some such intellectually stimulating program”
This really does frustrate me. You can make a case for an enforced licence fee for a state TV channel to provide public education, but when the licence fee is wasted on soaps which serve no public service, I feel robbed.
48. Thats the direct tax increase! I bet you notice the indirect taxes shrink your purchasing power after a while even more than the £1 a week! Lets not beat around the bush - things in the real economy are not good at all. Inflation is eating into everything and pushing up bills for everything.
46. Ah but Timothy if you were a “hard working family” you could claim it back in credits. Isn’t it wonderful ?
49. odd that, labour has presided over the widening of the gap between rich and poor, and the lowering of people moving up the financial ladder, compared to the previous tory administration.
46 That comment reminds me of a famous New Statesman headline of the Fifties, after a Conservative MP had been found in a compromising position with a guardsman
“There are Tories at the bottom of our Guardsmen.”
I agree with this article, entirely. It applies equally to Election Night Special.
48. I think when the Conservatives get round to making a tax cut it is essential it should be on the poorest. In fact, I don’t see why people should be paying any tax at all on their first fifteen grand of income.
49. No they are champaign socialists! (At your expense as well as mine!)
55. Agree - any tax cut should be a raise in the personal allowance.
Cons should make it 10k at least - an election winner.
49.No they don’t, that’s the problem you have yet to face or understand. LABOUR governments get away with this sleight of hand, a Conservative one would be crucified politically. That’s why this government got away with implementing tuition fee’s, where as we all know what happened to the poll tax….Think about it.
51,
Inflation is low. Brown said so. So it must be true. And if it is high, its due to the Tory government in 1996, because everything became great in May 97.
39 “Did they seriously ask Jade Goody for her opinion on the budget???!”
Yup. I’m looking forward to Election Night, when Jordan hosts the swingometer between her - no, lets no go there….
[13] - Exactly. They don’t mind being panned for being rubbish, because they can point to ITV and say “So what!”, but they’re scared rigid of either making a mistake, or being accused of favouring one side over the other. So they serve up mush instead.
At what point will we stop moaning about it and be able to set up our own alternative “politicalbetting election night coverage”?
54 - I would argue that it’s slightly more excusable on election night - the audience is likely to be broader, and b*gger all happens for the first few hours, so they have to fill it somehow…..
With the budget it’s inexcusable.
How can we collectively make a complaint to the Beeb? The balance of opinion on here is that the Beeb got it wrong from around what 30 people? How many lurkers (test; I know your out there reading) also feel that way.
Regarding a couple of things on the last thread.
(1) What is the point in assigning secret security codenames if you make those names public?
(2) Does Nick Palmer think we could have avoided tax rises during a slowdown if we had actually been saving rather than borrowing money during a boom?
[55] - From what I know the Conservative’s top priority is to cut tax on business. Oh, and the children of the rich, of course.
In answer to 39, yes. Plus the BBC actually cut away from PMQs before the end to bring a film of Jade Goody, Kate Mosse (the novelist, not the model)and various Z-list celebrities saying what they would like to see in the Budget.
After the Budget, when the reporter on the City floor actually found an analyst who could talk authoritively, the reporter managed to interrupt him and cut him off in full flow.
I found the whole presentation as toe-curlingly awful as the Brits Awards presentation the year Fox/Fleetwood compered it.
61 I think their being scared of the accusation of favouring one side hits the nail on the head. Sadly, if you go in for analysis of the Budget, BBC, you risk offending the Government of the day. Grow some. I don’t recall any retiscence prior to 1997, but now all they dare serve up is sub-tabloid toss.
66 - Unbelievable. And what pearls of wisdom did Miss Goody impart, pray?
65. Yes and slashing the tax on champagne, caviar, lobster and Rolls Royces.
[58] - Eh, well, it was the real Tories who shunted tax onto the lower-paid by whacking VAT and other indirect taxes up whilst they cut income tax rates, so you can play that tune if you like, but it sounds awfully off-key to me.
It’s only the rich who are allowed to move countries to escape “uncompetitive tax rates”, everyone else just has to lump it.
Huw Edwards was completely out of his depth. Andrew Neill should be presenting the Budget coverage.
62 I wouldn’t agree with that. Even on election nights, the people who watch it are likely to be knowledgable about, and interested in, politics, and there’s no excuse for dumbing it down.
Worse than the dumbing down, however, are the party hacks trying to spin the results as being good for them, because Labour hasn’t won Kensington/the Tories haven’t won Liverpool etc.
What I would like to see is someone intelligent explaining what the results mean, and lots of footage from round the country, at interesting contests.
[69] - Nah, EU rules will stop them from that. Perhaps that’ll be the trigger for withdrawal then?
70 - Well if it wasn’t for VAT &c, non-doms would probably pay no tax at all…..
So, in a nutshell, in 10 years, Browns spent everything we had and the BBC won’t admit it, or at least, allow it to be pointed out. What’s new about Labour? Zilch! apart from the time it’s taken and amounts spent, on this occasion. Full circle, maybe?
The attitude of the BBC is new, though.
65. I bet if you look back in history: It has always been Tory governments that have shifted the taw burden away from low to meduim working individuals. Labour tend to have an attitude that they will shove taxes up against all. The most effective place to do this however affects people like you the most - What you must consol yourself with is that Labour in government knows how to spend your money better than you do! I bet many people on this site go to bed at night safe in the knowledge that Nick Palmer and his chums can spend your money better than you can!
Not much for the pussey protection league though!
70 Given that VAT is a consumption tax, and food and children’s clothing are exempt, does it not bear most heavily on those who spend most heavily?
73. Of course - then they will make compulsary ID cards for foreigners, detention without trial for 90 days, allow rendition of prisoners for torture, start an illegal war and bankrupt the country…
70.I can and I will thanks. I worked in the NHS under the Tories and got the biggest real terms pay rise I can remember, back in those days you could buy a house on the wages as well.
[74] - Don’t they buy all their stuff tax-free whilst going through the airport on the way “home”?
Remember how the establishment constantly tells us we have “the best television in the world”.
Throughout the 1980s we were told there was no demand for multi-channel TV. Now Sky is so successful there are demands to reign it in by more regulation.
And of course we’re told only the licence fee can guarantee the “quality” of “public service broadcasting”. Yet anyone who has bothered to watch American TV knows that it provides news coverage which is far more serious and of higher quality than the BBC/ITV.
It’s time to end the charade.
I’d like to outsource Nick Robinson, Andrew Marr and Huw Edwards.
Preferably to somewhere their primary job will be shovelling pigshit.
68. She is very concerned about binge-drinking (Belive me, I am not making this up.) so therefore she wanted to see an increase in tax on booze.
It is quite clear from the Budget that she is now a major influence on the government. ( I am making this bit up but I find this concept only slightly more worrying than the reality that Ed “So What?” Balls IS a major influence.)
63. Vox Pops are generally add little and are very unlikely to be representative - but that goes for those on general news bulletins as well as high profile events.
No, they get it all in Dubai on the way through on their own private Concorde..
Sean T
We need a serious private politics/news station in Britain, a la CNN, to threaten the BBC’s domestic hegemony. It shouldn’t be impossible: getting jolly good graphics and a few good reporters does not cost the earth. You wouldn’t need billions of viewers to finance it.
I watched the budget on Sky News - they had Cameron’s response (pretty good) and Clegg’s (timid) without interruption, plus no Jade Goody and no interview with man in the street in Gateshead. Really Sky News is beteer than BBC24 on pretty much all fronts most of the time (if a little sensationalist) and without C4s ‘mini me’ BBC left bias.
Stephen
72 - I’m not so sure - I still think that the elecion-night audience is less switched on than the budget audience (although certainly not representative of the population as a whole). There’s a certain place for swingometers etc in the first couple of hours, but once the results start coming thick and fast (by which stage only die-hard politicos haven’t gone to bed) then yes, they should be much more high-brow
[77] - But the rich don’t spend all their money, they have enough left over to save some of it, so I think that as an equivalent rate of tax as a proportion of their earnings, it works out highest for those on middle incomes. Also, since VAT was put on things like gas and electricity, your point does not hold as much as it might have done in the past.
[78] - I’m no Labour supporter, and it strikes e those are the sorts of things that are more right-wing about the present government..
65. Even socialist Scandinavian countries cut corporation tax rates because they know its a good way to create growth.
77. It falls most heavily on those whose spending is a larger part of their income than saving: the poor.
Mike is just wrong to highlight the BBC on budget coverage. The Americans have no similar event and don’t have to plough through thousands of pages of detail to get to the nub of the budget in only a few hours.
The BBC’s coverage of US politics is woefully ignorant. But so are the Americans guilty of politically correct nonsense. For example many talk about the close popular vote totals between Obama and Clinton which is absolute crap because they don’t count the voters of many caucuses like Iowa, Washington, Maine and even Texas. Obama’s true popular vote lead is near 850,000. Even including Michigan and Florida still leaves him with a commanding lead in delegates, popular vote and states won. It is highly, highly, highly improbable that Clinton can close any of those gaps in a significant way. The race is over. Period. But not according the networks.
To put this in the context of British culture why does our coverage have to be the same as the American broadcasters? There’s always room for improvement but the BBC should find its own British way and not copy some of the inane crap in America.
OT - Elliot Spitzer has just announced his resignation as Governor of New York, effective March 17.
His successor will be Lieutenant Governor David Patterson. Who will be the first Black governor of NY State, and also (I think) the first legally blind governor in US history.
BBC News has just reported that Bob Spink has resigned the Tory Whip. Why might that be? Is he off to UKIP?
92 The item I read said the party had withdrawn the whip. I don’t know why.
92 - Sky News say Spink has resigned the whip due to dispute with local party.
92 - Now the report has changed and the whip has been withdrawn from Spink!
90. The US networks do show themselves to be very easily manipulated by campaign spin, but at least they pour over the detail of results much better than the BBC. The analysis of people like Tim Russert and Chuck Todd is excellent, and they do mention the caveats listed in your post. There are poor reporters also though: Chris Matthews is loveable, but a bit of a joke! As I said above, the US networks biggest problem is the incredibly US-centric nature of it all (the rest of the world is only relevant to how it affects US domestic politics).
91. Have there been any illegally blind ones?
94/95. A good day for DC to take out the trash ?
92. The Conservatives have been manouvering behind the scenes to build a majority in the local party to remove him for a while. I guess they’re finally executing that plan.
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/centreright/2008/03/cameron-destroy.html
PB.com hat tip..
64 - Aren’t the codenames to avoid mishearing rather than so people don’t know what you’re talking about? A classic example is if you have George Bush Jnr and George Bush Snr in a room, putting out the message over your radio that George Bush is heading for the back exit doesn’t help your agents much, whereas the fact that Timberwolf is does. That’s an extreme example but there can be trouble with family members if the radio cuts off part of a name or whatever.
I did think the BBC coverage was total Cr*p.
Kind of got me thinking- what a poverty of aspiration we have in the UK. No wonder the level of unhappiness seems to be so high- anything that involves real attainment is ignored, or worse derided. So it ends up with millionaire celebrities with only accidental acheivements presuming to comment on things they do not even understand. Meanwhile hypocritical journalists earning 500K+ accuse MPs earning 60K+ of filling their boots.
If Jade Goody is as far as our culture has got, then I think I am reaching for not so much a revolver as a howitzer.
So how’s the Budget playing in the media generally?
Is the general message the floating/disinterested voter will pick up “Darling puts up taxes”?
98 Why?
94: There have been a lot of problems in Bob Spink’s local party - he survived a previous deselection attempt in a previous Parliament. Can’t remember what it was about but I’ll go off and have a google.
96 - “illegally blind” governors?
Yes, have been many IF being blind drunk/stoned in criminal circumstances counts!
Of course in the US “legally blind” refers to people who have some sight, just not enough to drive a car, etc.
Lt. Gov. Paterson suffered from a childhood illness that damaged his optic nerve. According to reports he can perceive shapes, but that’s about it.
Spitzer was in Hillary’s SD column …. Oooppps another one bites the dust !!
102
As far as I read, the media thinks it is “boring”.
If that’s the worst then Darling has done well.
Boring is good.. as if the Budget is light entertainment!
But frankly most journalists that I read seem unable to analyse anything and just parrot party lines whichever the party.
re 52 and what if you don’t have a family? You just get fleeced.
Perhaps Mike we coould have a mock up picture of Gordon as the Sheriff of Nottingham on 5th April - he robbed from the poor to give to the rich - to celebrate the good fortune of some of us in the next tax year.
Fascinated by the attacks on the BBC; they sound like Fox [Faux] News [Opinion]over here in the US. Don’t bother to watch the BBC when we’re in the UK; Sky are always quicker at getting the story and better at reporting it, despite the fact that they are owned by the evil Murdoch. Do listen to the one o’clock news programme on radio 4 and sometimes PM. Much prefer the radio. Over here NPR is my listening of choice but they are a trifle tedious and won’t cover anything seriously dangerous.
Get my news these days from the internet where ther are far fewer talking heads and my computer won’t pick up anyone called Jade.
Malcolm
re 55 and 57 I’ve often said that a much fairer tax system would be raising the basic rate to something like 30%+ and at least trebling the personal allowance.
I had a feeling that Ed Balls would have rushed from the chamber following Cameron’s response and spent the rest of the afternoon on the phone to the political lobby explaining that he was misheard.
Boulton and Co have the balls on this, it appears that swot and been replaced with so weak.
Balls??
@103:
He started suing members of his local party for harassment for various perceived slights. He’s generally viewed as having a persecution complex. Like all good paranoia, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, because you eventually become enough of a pain in the arse that people actively start trying to deselect you.
Stuff about the local Spink row that clearly ended up where we are today here
Wasn’t Bob Spink caught up in the expenses business? Good day to bury bad news anyway.
Although, in this case, since he employs his wife as a diary secretary…
Three reasons ( in the mode of Douglas Adams trilogies) why I am sure Balls really did say ‘So what?’ to the highest tax rate point.
1. Cameron looked around amazed, to see who had said that
2. Balls was bright red when the camera moved straight on to him - perhaps because he realised what a blunder he had made
3. the BBC spin to down play it
4. The BBC sin changed mid stride form ‘SWOT’ to ‘So weak’. If Pineaar had really heard it for himself he would know for sure and not have to change his story.
5. The delight of the whole Tory front bench even before Cameron’s repost.
111
Alan Johnson appears highly amused at Cameron’s dig at Balls…no love lost?
103. Someone I know in the local party says that he’s always threatening to go to the media with attacks on the party/leader/policy positions unless he gets his way on things. Apparently they’ve tried to remove him before but he always had enough strength among an old guard to stay.
Good topic
Have to agree
Fewer hacks telling us “what the politicians really mean”. Fewer door steppings of people trying to do some shopping.
More politicians actually given time to explain their positions. More experts to get behind the headline figures.
It’s because the BBC thinks that we hear enough from experts and that ordinary people want to hear the views of ordinary people… which is nonsense.
I know a small amount of how the economy works. I want somebody with a pinstriped suit and a ridiculously large knot in his tie to explain the ins and outs, just like I want a political expert to talk about the politics.
The bit with jenny Scott (phwoar factor aside) was utter tedium.
Also, Alistair Darling is horlix in human form.
Was pleased to see Cameron crush the odious Balls underfoot.
114 - Kind of. He employs both his former wife and the daughter of a former girlfriend which has been remarked upon as odd although there are no specific firm allegations of wrongdoing as far as I am aware.
98. Before last GE he failed to get the immediate readoption after the association exectutive voted 15 to 8 against him. However at the time he won the membership vote easily (508 to 78 votes)
112, 113, 118 Ah I see. Mad as a box of frogs, then.
123. That a tad froggish Sean ….. frogs are not mad !!! …. toads on the other hand are barking !!
121. Sounds like a better divorce arrangement than Paul McCartney has.
Apparently Ed Balls is sayinghe said ’so weak’ and not ’so what’. About as believable as the £18bn 2012 budget surplus.
when the bulgarians were chucking out the Communists there PM was recorded saying ‘Send in the Tanks’ -
this obviously caused a bit of a kerfuffle and he claimed he had said ’send for Stanks’, his personal nickname for the Defence Minister - nobody beleived him just as no sane person would beliive Ed Balls
Ed Balls is the biggest twit(sic) in the HoC by a considerable margin.
If the BBC are so insistent on getting the voice of ordinary people about the budget, they should at least do what the Americans do with the State of the Union, with dial groups and the like.
The last two threads are the most pathetic I’ve ever read on here. There’s something about these sorts of parliamentary occasion that turns Tory posters into mindless morons.
So Spink said he resigned the Whip…
the Tories says they have withdrawn the Whip
and they add that they did so because he emailed to Chief Whip threatening to resign the Whip if they had not accepted something his demands
124. Froggish or froggist? Barking or ribbeting?
128. Invaluable contribution Roger.
Btw, on thread….BBC should skip the budget coverage and place a re-run of Inspector Lynley Mysteries instead of it and run a budget coverage at 1 AM…
that’s what Italian state tv would do
128. Oh dear Wog - the peasants are revolting again ?
128 An incisive comment on Darling’s budget there, Roger. Not.
Tell us something useful. What is in it for the British film industry?
115 - “diary secretary”
Read this at first as “dairy secretary” and tried to figure out is that was 21st century version of “milk maid”!
In US we call such worker bees “schedulers” which is more prosaic. With a hard “sch”.
For one thing, us colonials don’t use the word “diary” to mean “schedule” but rather only to mean a personal daily record (the kind that young girls hide from their mothers, and old politicos use to settle their scores).
132 - :). Trouble is that it would still be just as useless.
128 I think we PBers have produced much worse threads Roger
- The lack of socialists telling us how we are going to get the budget into surplus by 2012 tells us all we need to know - this was a fantasy budget delivered by a pathetic (in the tragic sense) Chancellor with a supporting cast of repugnant government lackeys looking on and wishing they were elsewhere.
113.Thanks for the link, sounds like a lively time has been had by all if the comments are anything to go by.
Well said Mike. Not like you to be quite so outraged. A couple of thoughts:
1) How about radio coverage. I don’t think Radio 4 could be accused of dumbing down and I wonder what equivalent there is in the US?
2) It’s all about being inclusive. The bbc want viewing figures and they hink oious types like Goody provide them.
p.s was she really on This Week and if so why?
Isn’t Spink likely to run as an independent. And if so, doesn’t he have some chance of actually winning?
128.Roger, in light of the topic of this thread and the guest list on the Beeb’s budget coverage that is priceless. One for the hall of fame I think.
140. yes and no.
IIRC Castle Point (Spink was the sitting MP ahead of 1997 GE) was one of the safest Tory seats to fall to Lab in 1997, if not the safest.
CNN coverage looks great - but listening to what passes for “politial commentary” during the Ohio / Texas night was frankly painful. Statements of the obvious were followed by repetitions of statements of the obvious.
Surely what the BBC needs to do is compare their own coverage from 10 years ago with that now - not look to the US.
140 Independents have been doing well on the local council, and there was a big vote for UKIP here in 2005. But I’ve no idea if Spink would get either group’s backing if he ran as an independent, and the Echo’s comments suggest that he’s far from universally liked.
Inspector Lynley Misteries - PBS runs them over here as part of the mistaken belief that any British TV drama by definition must be good stuff.
Personally think we could significantly reduced the crime rate by sentancing convicted felons to endure Inspector Lynley marathons over the course of their incarceration.
Those that survived the mind-numbing, soul-destroying boredom would be of no futher bother to anyone. Except for Nurse Wratchet of course.
Maybe the BBC feel that they have forgotten the white working class.
So they need a representaive Jade Goody.
Patronising in the extreme.
They should stick to the daft sod Clarkson who thinks its clever to drive at 80mph with a mobile stuck to his thick ear.
143 - Although in fairness, he was one of the few who successfully bounced back in 2001. But like Wareing in Liverpool (or Browne in Winchester in 1992), I can’t see him getting enough votes as an independent to affect the result.
139 - US answer to Radio 4 is NPR (aka National Public Radio).
Check out their website at http://www.npr.org
The independents in Castle Point are often ex-Labour. But Spinks will take many tories with him if he fights again. I wonder if he will resign to fight a by-election?
I assume we’ve all seen this now?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7292013.stm
Compounding their idiocy by advertising it online. I think maybe the time has come to have Nick Robinson and Andrew Marr
cermonially beheaded on Tower Hill. It’s the only way they’ll learn.
132
Andrea
Rather than Inspector Linley,, how about “Shoestring”.(brillant series with Trevor Eve,(late 70’s early 80’s) We will be running our family budgets on one anyway until Nulab is kicked out.
Incidentally Brown’s smirking was disgraceful during Cameron’s response.
I hope Goody isn’t going to become the unofficial beeb spokesperson for the WWC. But I wouldn’t put it past them…….
What they are clearly trying to do is show that what happens in the budget relates to all of us, not just political junkies. But that is so obvious, I can’t believe that even in these unenlightened times the point needs to be made. People don’t tune in because they don’t expect a serious change from the status quo. ‘What you get given in one pocket is taken away from the other’.
The beeb should just accept this and the inevitably dire ratings. It’s not the media’s duty to make politics interesting.
@150:
I’m not sure Tone is ready to give up the Chiltern Hundreds just yet.
The BBC’s problem is a bit like the Breakfast Time issue. They have the ability and staff to put a quality news prgramme on, say, BBC News 24, but instead simulcast the dumbed down BBC One version.
132 - Only had one nights exposure to Italian TV several years ago. Was plenty.
How could a nation with so rich a culture, so keen a sense of drama and so vibrant an artistic soul, produce such total pigslop, even by the abysmal standards of the boob tube?
The funniest thing was seeing a broadcast of the epic Hollywood blockbuster/potboiler “The Longest Day” where a cast of thousands recreated D-Day for the silver screen.
Instead of subtitles, the movie was dubbed . . . and very badly.
Most absurd thing was when John Wayne came on the screen. Accompanied by a voice over by a guy with a high-pitched, squeaky voice that sounded like he’d just inhaled a helium baloon!
No wonder anti-Americanism is so rampant!
150. I can’t see that he would want to give up 60k a year and expenses for 2 years.
It will be interesting to see whether the Beeb include the blushing Balls’ “so what” episode on their Budget news coverage - somehow I doubt it.
Surely with microphones positioned everywhere in the HoC, it can’t be too difficult to establish once and for all precisely what he did say.
157 revenge, perhaps?
156. Sea Shanty Irish, all foreign movies and tv productions are dubbed in Italy when showed.
Compared to the Tory posters on the last thread I though Jade Goody was the height of articulate insightfulness.
yup, that was dreadful. When the BBC can produce quality in so many areas, why does it feel the need to ape itv with mainstream news?
Ps first post from iPhone, site looks good although it insists on correcting pbc to pvc………
@161:
Must try harder.
158 - I wonder how Hansard will record it
158. I’ll only repeat what i said on the last thread regarding Balls comment - so what. I mean so what if he said so what?
The tax burden in this country is not that high. The Tories would be better to focus on HOW people are taxed, not the overall level. Many successful countries have higher overall tax burdens than we do.
@162: The iPhone auto-adapts. It’ll start recognizing ‘pbc’ soon enough.
163 - DNFTT
61. Lol - your spelling is garbage - must be us peons dragging you down.
165 - Frank, name them please.
159. Can’t see it. He has family dependent on the money as well.
Good news on Spink: another dinosaur goes the way of all dinosaurs. A last roar to the void and goodbye.
According to wikipedia Goody is worth about £3m. Does that make her representative of the country?
Also I have a theory regarding theso called ‘chav’ rich. My guess is that by and large the more ‘respectable’ a millionaire, the less tax they pay. I think I saw somewhere that the Beckhams pay about 40%. Branson allegedly pays sweet FA.
I think one of the EU rules is that VAT can go up, not down. Think it is due to “harmonization” and/or the fact that the EU keeps a slice of VAT receipts. Got an idea there is a minimum level at which standard VAT can be set. (15%?)
I will be blunt - having lived here in the U.S. for 7 years the News is abysmal - it is too isolationist - for international news we watch BBC World America - U.S. networks are good at breaking news - and election coverage - but for anything else or wanting to know what is going on in the world - the BBC wins hands down
Frank Booth So what? Well walk around the market on Saturday and tell the shoppers that the massive and growing tax burden is unimportant.
165 - It is that high, frankly it is higher than it has been in a long time and it is going in the wrong direction at the wrong time.
165. Not in successful large countries. You can withstand it more in a country of five million where the absolute size of the public sector can be more easily managed, but not somewhere with a 60m population.
165 Frank - Many would probably agree with you. That being the case, why pretend afterwards that he had said “so weak” or “swat”, instead of just shrugging it off?
Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Belgium, Germany (about the same). I’m sure they’ll be a few others I don’t know.
Isn’t Spinks the one who used racist language in the run up to the 1997 election?
Castle Point Council also has some interesting history. In the early 1990s it was all Conservative - I believe they spent all the council tax on a new town hall or similar and had massive tax rises as a result and it ended up being all Labour in 1995 (or there abouts).
It wasn’t exactly a surprise for it to go Labour in 97 given the Tories record of incompetence there. What was more surprising was the Tories reselecting the egregious Spink in 2001.